Those of you following my latest thread know that my H's A of 5 years ago resurfaced 2 months ago, after a week, H was ready to run off with OW. She said she didn't want H to leave me to be with her (looks bad in the eyes of society) and wanted to stay with her H and try to get pregnant. My H saw a counselor and after the first session announced he didn't want to be married anymore, after 14 years and 2 great kids. No other problems. Said he wanted to be non-monagamous, date around. We set a date for him to move out, but its not for a few more weeks due to extensive travel and alot of details we need to get in place.

So for the last 6 weeks I've been trying to accept this separation based on the fact that my H didn't want to be monogamous. OW was in the picture, as my H's "friend" and confidante, but he kept telling me she loved her H, wanted to stay married and get pregnant.

Now, 2 months after she started to try to get pregnant, my H tells me she has decided she would rather be with my H than have a baby, and that they are "talking" about her moving in with him after she gets a divorce. H emphasizes this all all still "talk", although they are talking about upcoming holidays and that she is nervous about how our kids will feel about her.

I am blown away. H says OW is his destiny, and that it all boils down to the fact that he would rather spend the rest of his life with her than me, mostly because of my age. She is 20 years younger than me. Now I feel the ultimate rejection, he is leaving me for the OW that caused all the problems in the first place 5 years ago. The woman that I always feared was still in my H's heart, even though we seemed fully recovered, happy and in love. Even though she married 2 years ago and was trying to have a baby with her H. It is truly my worst nightmare come true. I guess it happens all the time, but I feel so defeated and shocked that it would come to this.

I have some questions about exposing my kids to her, especially because they were aware of the first A and who she was. In our state, it is not normally an issue regarding custody or visitation if the new "significant other" is in the picture or living with the exspouse. But I know in my heart that Daddy moving out will be a terrible situation for my kids to deal with, but then expecting them to accept OW as Daddy's new girlfriend, this seems like deliberately putting them in even more pain and confusion.

I am more emotionally miserable than I have ever been, and scared to death about this issue with the kids. H seems to think if they wait a couple of months, she gets a D and so does he, they can just stroll into the sunset together, regardless of the fact that they leave 2 wrecked marriages and a broken family behind, shocked and disapointed extended family on both sides, bewildered friends, neighboors and work colleagues that think we are a great, happily married couple. Seems to think that there is no reason why the kids won't accept OW, and that she will make a great stepmom. That everything will be peachy and they can get on with this life together that was meant to be.

What do I do now, and how should I act? I suppose I think that if they go ahead and do this, at least we will all find out one way or another if they really are "meant for each other".
If not, this ambiguity would continue forever, as it has for the past 5 years, while they have been carrying a torch for each other. But it is sheer torture for me to see things go in this direction, and I know the pain will get worse before its over.

I'm seeing a counselor and was just coming to grips with the non-monogamous issue, not that my H was leaving me for another W, not to mention that its the exOW. Now I have to start over with a bigger blow to my self esteem.

I would appreciatte any advice on both my shattered ego and practical advice regarding my kids and OW. Do you think Steve Harley could help me at this point, or are things too far gone? I just want to wake up and have this nightmare over, want things back the way they were before OW came back into the picture.
(can you say "denial"?) Apologies for being such a wimp, but I feel like someone who was down for the count and then got punched in the face.

((((Everhopeful)))

I am so very sorry for what you are going through.

I have no advice accept that the OW sounds like a real winner (trying to decide between a baby and running off with your H), women like that should be made to get their tubes tied in my opinion.

You are so much more than the situation you are in. You truly are and I wish I had the magic to take away your pain.

Weaver

Everhopeful, they probably wish they could "sanitize" their relationship. My WW has tried, without much success, to do some of this herself. She has tried at least once to turn their A into a friendship, I think with the idea that they would come back together after everybody was divorced. But whenever they've done it, they've gone back to the A pretty quickly. They can't even pretend to go straight.

This problem seems terribly sticky. Your WH never seems during recovery to have embraced the simple fact that people are not "made for each other". More Hollywood jive.

I wish I had advice for you. You probably have it pegged - H and the OW think they can just get everybody divorced and moved on, then their A will be sanctioned. They want to game the system to separate the breakups of their Ms from the A, to make it look like the two are unrelated. The best thing you can do right now is probably a very aggressive, full exposure of the A, but you're probably way ahead on that already, with so much history.

Sorry I'm not more help, just trying to get back into the swing of things...

GC

Can you make an appointment with a child psychologist for you and your WH to go to together so he can hear from an outside third party the effects that this will have on your children? If WH and OW are set to run off and be together there is not much you can do, but you can protect your children. Even if WH won't go to the child psychologist I think that you should and make appointments for the children. No matter what WH thinks, this will be devistating for them and you need to be their rock. Also, I hope you have seen a lawyer to protect yourself from his horrible selfish acts. Have you exposed the A to anyone? That should also be done ASAP.

Obviously he is deep in the fog to think that this is acceptable behavior. I wish you luck in navigating through it.

((((Everhopeful))))

So sorry to hear the latest.

Your H is unbelievable. Shares his plans with you about leaving in two months to D and live with OW. Why let him stay for his convenience? He's living in your house but making future plans with an OW? Let him experience real life now AT YOUR CONVENIENCE.

Probably not the right advice but it was my gut reaction to your post.

Hopefully someone more experience will post and advise you.

Good luck to you and your kids Everhopeful.

Take care.

sss

Everhopeful,

I've posted to you several times. I'm so sorry that your WH is still wanting to leave. I've suspected that the A with OW was probably never really over, maybe only "on hold" for some time.

The "age thing" is really just an excuse that he is using. I know how difficult and painful this is for you, but you sound like an incredibly strong woman, so I want you to keep you head up high. You deserve it. You didn't do anything; this is all about him and his demons.

Now regarding the children, you will have to keep their best interest in mind. I don't have much experience with this, but there are some seasoned professionals here who can certainly help you. Maybe post a separate thread with a question just about the kids.

I can fully understand if you do not want your children around the OW (future stepmom) because nobody really knows if this thing between them is really going to last or not. So, your children need to be protected. They already have a Mom, no need for a step-mom. Tell your WH that he can see them at your home or at another place, but I would be firm about not having OW around your children. I think that it'll do more harm than good having this woman around your kids. You are an excellent role-model for your children and that is what they need, not a selfish self-indulging woman who is after other women's men... Good thing that she came to her senses about having a baby. I would really feel sorry for this baby.

But, this also raises a question! In one of your former emails, you mentioned that your husband had a vasectomy. Now, I'm pretty sure that her biological clock is gonna start ticking again sooner or later... How's that gonna work??? In addition, your WH stated that he does not wish to be monogamous. I assume that would include the OW as well. How does she feel about that? Has he explained to her how he feels?

You know, right now, everything between them is secretive and fantasy again. If he truly moves out and moves her in then he will never really have a chance to figure out who HE really is because he's gonna have OW around him all the time again and sooner or later it's gonna get "old" again and he's gonna be in the same boat. The only problem is that this OW is not going to be as smart, articulate and poised like you and he's going to run, not walk away from her as fast as his feet will carry him.

I would suggest to let him go, maybe even file for separation, but I would hold off on the divorce. Let her have him and take care of all of his needs. She's gonna be in for a rough ride.

Take care and do not ever ever think that you cannot compete with this woman just because she's 20 years younger. YOU do not need to compete. You're IT!

Now don't get down on yourself, okay. You'll be fine.

Kati

Thanks for these thoughtful replies. I have socialized with OW. She is, according to her ex-best friend who has since befriended me, "The most fun person you could ever be with, but in her heart, she only cares about herself". From what I have seen and known of this woman, she is a high energy, funny, personality plus person that everyone likes to be around, including kids.
I keep picturing H doing all the things we have been doing together with someone more fun, someone more athletic, and taking it a step farther, picturing my kids having a wonderful, great fun time with the two of them when life with me is going to be filled with practicalities and day to day normalities.

H is also the most fun person you would ever want to be with, although he too is incredibly self centered. I know I can eventually probably find a partner that treats me better, is kinder and loves me for me. But will I find anyone more fun than my H? Probably not. So maybe he and OW are meant for each other, as they are cut out of the same piece of cloth in many respects.

OW has threatened suicide to my H at least 4 times that I know of. She has left me nasty phone messages and acted out some minor road rage towards me on the highway. But she has my H captivated, and I have no doubt in my mind that he has more fun with her than with me. And with no kids to worry about except when they can do it conveniently, I am sure they will have more fun living together too.

I also have no doubt that they will have their share of problems. But my H's greater issue now seems to be finding someone he has more in common with, and he agreed that he has decided he would rather spend the rest of his life with her rather than me. He also says its not for sure, she may "flake" on him, and change her mind. But the door is wide open for her on his side, thats for sure.

This is so painful and sad, I feel physically ill today, rather than the constant knot thats been in my stomach for the past 2 months. Sorry to be such a pessimist, but right now I feel utterly hopeless. A week ago she was trying to get pregnant and H was saying he wanted to just separate, not get a divorce and reassess the situation with us in 6 months. Within 5 days things excelerated between them to this point, that he is planning to leave me to settle down with her. This is crazy stuff, but unfortunately its my reality. My counselor is out of town until next week, which is unfortunate. Thanks again for these thoughts.

Everhopeful,

Your WH is in a very unstable position. What makes you think that OW is more fun??? She sounds like a psycho - threatening suicide 4X, trying to run you off the road, leaving you threatening messages!!! Is this the kind of woman that you want around your precious children??? I hope that you kept proof of all of this stuff because you should present it to your lawyer and get a restraining order against this woman.

Does her husband know about this? If not, can you expose to him? He needs to know that the woman in his life who has been trying to conceive his baby, is planning on running off with your husband.

Life with OW may be temporarily fun for your WH, but I sense that he's going to be in for a rough ride, Everhopeful.

Don't always buy everything that someone else tells you. Your friend may tell you that OW is the most fun person on the planet, but that may be just HER opinion.

And stop devalueing yourself. If this OW was so great, then your husband would not even think twice about leaving. He'd be out the door and running to OW. But, he's still at home with lots of talk about leaving, but no plan or action, right?

I wish I could say something to make you feel better.

Also, you write that you think that you would never find anyone as fun as your husband anymore. Don't underestimate all the other great men out there. You may think that now, but you may be surprised about some of the nice people that are out there.

Kati

Hi Everhopeful,

I am so sorry you are going through all of this.I know what you mean about feeling physically ill.I have felt like that for about a week now.

Anyway,I just have to say that I want you to forget about this ideal that the OW is this funny,great to be around person who is destined to be with YOUR WH.PUKE.Remember Hitler? Charisma can carry you a long way but what's underneath can be downright evil.So this OW can project an air of confidence and humor.Big deal.There is more to life than jokes.Where will she be when reality starts hitting them between the eyes? Have they ever lived together? Does your WH really expect a woman 20 years younger to be around forever? If he's not wealthy there will be little to hang around for when she gets bored and WH gets older.Just what will the homewrecker threaten to get her way after she's attained your WH if not suicide? Puhlease.She is an immature user.

It is obvious that the feelings they had together are still fantasy based.If two people see each other in dribs and drabs,feeding into the fantasy of destined romance and distances,that could go on forever.They do not have a real chance to see what they are made of and what they can stand,together.Bills have to be paid,the laundry has to be done,the groceries need to be bought,meals need to be made,car's have to be repaired,people get sick,etc.The daily grind will wear at them too,in time.It ALWAYS does.

The faster they drive the harder they will crash and burn.

As for your children,well,that is hard.I may be going through the same soon too but so far,I have made a big stink about how my children are not to be exposed to the homewrecker and so far my WH has not tried to.He knows I will go ballistic.And,part of me really believes that this homewrecker does not like children or ours because everytime my WH needs to call the children when with her,he only talks to them for a few minutes,then he has to go.Undoubtedly he doesn't want to inconvenience the homewrecking trash.Nice.But,the homewrecker also knows what I think of her and how I loathe her very existence so she is aware that being with my WH,the childrens father,is going to have some negative aspects for her goals.

I would suggest that you be firm and unwavering in your desire to keep the kids from this OW until it is known,if ever,that the OW is going to be a permanent part of their dad's life,like Kati? mentioned.My girls have already been saying how they don't want a step-mom and I agree with them.It would be one thing if their father and I D'd differently without any other intereference from users and destroyers but it didn't happen that way.There is no way on God's green earth I will ever make the children have to be arounbd or even like this woman who is actively involved in the destruction of my marriage and our family.She will get nothing from me and my children if it is humanly possible.

Hang in there EH.I am right there with you in the pain,as we all are.I know how bad it can be but we have our children to live for and live RIGHT for.Worry about the homewrecking OW if and when the time arises but plan ahead.

One last thought.Please remember,this is ALL ABOUT YOUR WH AND HIS INSECURITIES,VOIDS AND MISGUIDED SELF IMAGE.This has nothing to do with YOU.I know your ego has been hit hard but try to put it in context.There is no comparison to what you are up against.No contest.If it comes down to a woman who loved her husband,bore and raised his children,made a home,protected her heart from other men,committed to her marriage,preserved her morals,values,integrity and dignity,etc versus a young woman who threatens suicide,gets involved in the destruction of a marriage and family causing pain to multiples of people for her own selfish agenda,etc YOU win.That will never change.

The only way this woman will EVER redeem herself is if she ends the A completely and forever and apologizes to all the people she has hurt and chooses a path of moral and caring,selfless acts.Until that very moment,God is watching and taking inventory.Her downfall will come.

O

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Also, if OW was so great she wouldn't be content being an OW. You are much stronger better woman then she could ever hope to be. You have morals, values and are a wonderful mother. Three things she will never be if she stays on this current path in life.

Thanks again for these compassionate and supportive replies. I should remind everyone that OW is 20 years younger than me, but only 5 years younger than my H. The age descrepancy has always bothered my H, and I guess now he figures is the best time to jump ship and head to a younger "port". Too bad the kids are still so young. And OW has always played the age card to the hilt. When I asked him how she could justify going after a married man with 2 kids, who loves his wife and vice versa, he said it was because of my age. Afterall, why be with a woman 15 years older than you, if you can be with an attractive woman 5 years younger? She always campaigned for herself as the better match in all regards. The kids were and are just a complication that they will "do right" by.

What is even harder for me is that up until this "talk" of them living together, H has been truly affectionate and loving towards me. The past few days though, he has been distant and colder. Its as if he went over completely to the other side, emotionally. His emotional allegence is now with her.

Regarding the kids, I told him point blank that if he is moving OW in the H, the kids would not be living there with him for at least 6 months after she moves in. He wanted joint custody with a 50/50 split in time. No way would I subject my kids to that kind of trauma. I told him I would keep them all the time and we would work out some kind of neutral location visitation when OW is not present. If they are still together and stable after 6 months, then I would consider easing her into their lives, as much as I loath to do it. H may end up marrying her anyway, and I don't want them to feel stuck in the middle. They will figure it out anyway, as they have both been aware of his 2 A's with her, and know her as "daddy's female friend". In fact it was my daughter who was 5 at the time who blew the whistle on them when daddy picked her up from school with OW in the car. My older son is 14, and knew what was going on from the begining.

The other sad factor is that H and I had pledged to do this separation as fairly and amicably as possible, for the sake of the kids. Our counselor and books told us that the kids who make the best adjustment after divorce are the ones who do not see any adversity or ugliness between their splitting parents. I told my H that I will be nice and fair in all regards, except the kids exposure to OW is the one area I will fight him on. They are smart kids and know who is the stable parent and who is the flake, who has been missing in action, who doesn't come home on time etc.

Anyway, your replies give me strength, have pulled me out of the worst depression I have had throughout this whole ordeal. Its so sad when you wake up each morning and realize whats going on, its like sleep is the only time I am at peace. Sleep and dreams are the cruel deceivers.

I would like to think that when I was going through recovery from the first A, and my H and I were making real progress, that I helped a few people on the board with good advice that worked for me at the time, in fact, I think the info & insight I got from MB truly helped to improve our marriage for several years, dispite the fact that OW reappeared in the picture and everything went down the tubes. So I do appreciate leaning on those of you out there who can help me with any further ideas/thoughts, and maybe in time I can give back again.

EH,

Sorry to hear about the turmoil.

When did the OW do all that stuff? Recent enough to do an RO against her for the sake of you and the children? Let it be known that the WS has taken up with a psycho OW. Take it from me, you are not doing him any favors but NOT exposing.

Did you contact OW's H yet? What is his stance on the A? Wonder what the payoff is to him? Is the OW a golddigger or just a pants ripper?

This sitch is making me upset. I hate it when a parent loses their sense of reason. Oh geeze, that must mean I w/b upset all the time, but I try not to be. I actually can smile but I tend to bite my lower lip when I read stories like yours. Not upset at you, just at the WS and the OP. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Now secure your finances and check out separation, child visitation and alimony options.

Get a good lawyer and good MC lined up. See if you can do some phone counseling with Steve. You know the MB routine.

Think about plan B and read that Love must be tough book by Dr James Dobson, ok?

Remember take nothing for granted. Practice your reverse babbling.

Keep posting.

L.

Hi again,

Well,even though the OW is 15 years younger than you not WH,the rules of reality will still apply.And even if the OW is playing her age cards right now,they don't matter a lick if the INNER being of this woman is as treacherous and selfish as she comes across.I think a truly decent man would take a woman of integrity,love,generosity and dignity who was 15 years older than some tart with no morals and who cries suicide to get her way.Nope.As much as they may flaunt this superficial ideal in your face,we all know differently.Maybe they should get tickets for the Jerry Springer show. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Also,I just wanted to mention that it is my opinion that you do not necessarily have to have an amicable and communicative relationship post D with your cheating ex spouse to lovingly and thoughtfully raise your children.I would rather my girls see me as a happy and healed mom than a nervous wreck knowing I was going to have to interact with my xWH every week in some fashion.It is not always necessary.I told my WH that we can parently separately but effectively if he doesn't get in my way.lol He wants nothing more than to still have me in his life as "friends" and co-parenters but I just cannot do that.It is too painful and he no longer will have my friendship or anything from me.He gave up that privilege.

To illustate my point.My WH has been trying to get me to read a book by Judith Wallerstein,the woman who did the landmark study on children of D.Well,I was shocked to read that she was quoted as saying something similar to this: if you are getting a divorce anyway,being involved with an OP is not considered Infidelity anymore.Well,I am sorry to disagree with such a woman as her but she is wrong about that,and other views I read.Until you are legally divorced,you are STILL married.That doesn't mean that just because you are in an A and you are running around with some OP that you can forfeit all your vows,committments and responsibilities,etc.If marriage were taken so lightly we could all reserve the right to do what we want at anytime.

I say go with what's in your heart and what YOU feel is right.Afterall,any WS trying to give advice about what's best for the kids is ridiculous.They don't see what is best for the children but rather what they selfishly want for themselves to be happy and have it both ways.

Sure,pick another woman to destroy the marriage and family and the kids rights to a happy,loving home and future but also be able to dictate how and where they spend their lives that suits your schedule and OP's agenda.I don't think so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am glad you are feeling a bit stronger.Take care now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Thanks again for this advice and support. I am seeing an attorney tommorrow morning. H was sullen and removed last night, and I didn't hear from him once today. We drove to work together, and when we went hope, I asked him for an update about his situation with OW. He jumped all over me for trying to "micromanage" his life, and was sullen all the way home. When he got home, immediately left on a bike ride, I'm sure to meet OW, who lives 4 blocks away (she bought this house 2 years after the A was over, its where her and her H live.) So my H has "gone over" to the other side, emotionally speaking.
Its very true what Octobergirl said about still being married. In his mind, since he has already decided to leave, anything goes.

He leaves for his 3 weeks of travel this weekend, and honestly, I will be glad when he is out of the house, as his hostility is worse than the fact he is leaving. Its exactly like when he had the first A - if he can pick a fight with me and get mad about something, he can stay distant and give himself more excuses to see OW.

I guess I was wrong to bring up the "situation" with OW the minute I got in the car. But I wasn't hostile or accusatory, just matter of fact. I am still reeling from the disclosure on Friday night, and wanted an update. Its ironic that with this selfish and hurtful situation totally his fault, I am the one who ends up apologising for "giving him a hard time".

Who knows what time he will get back tonite? Again, his rationale seems to be, hey we are getting a divorce, so whats the difference? At least with his hostile behavior, maybe he is making it easier for me to stay strong.