Here's the story....

I've backed off all day. Had four phone calls.

After dinner, showed her two leftover bills that she agreed to pay. She said "I thought you were paying that one". Showed her the agreement. She took the bills.

Her cell phone rang. Missed the call.

I gave DD a bath. Came out and she was in the garage on the phone. I was mad. Didn't say anything.

She comes back in and I say "you should probably go to your apartment. That way you can use the phone and noone gets upset."

She says....."I'm the one that called him. I called him to tell him that I didn't want to see him anymore. Are you happy now?"

I didn't say anything. Didn't know what to say. She went into the den. I went outside.

Came back in and said "No contact will make me happy".

She said "we work for the same company. He floats around and we may see each other. It was a mutual agreement between both of us (WW/OM) - he's 24, I'm 42".

I said "I see what happens when you talk to him. Even tonight."

She said "we both work at the same company and I won't be able to because he floats around."

I said "you can quit".

She said "I'm not going to quit". "You're putting all these rules on me and I'm trying to do one at a time."

I said "I'm not putting rules on you, just the no contact with OM because I see what happens to you".

She said "I'm the one that emailed him and told him to call me. That's why I talked to him."

Something else was said (can't recall) but it was something "I didn't say I was moving back"

She then goes to DD's room and tells DD she'll be back and she left.

She just now called and told DD to "save a place on the couch and we'll finish the movie". Then she told me "I'll be home in a bit".

She was angry before she left. Now on the cell, she was short but cordial.

What should I do? I've been hit with this pretty quick and not sure if I should just not say anything.

Help.......LS

Plan A .....

Love her .... show her with words and actions how you delight in her.

Pep

Pep...Plan A? Don't say anything. Just comfort her and be the lighthouse?

What signal is that sending to her?

I hesitate to say I'm confused, but I'm confused.

Ready to Plan A, but didn't think that applied here......LS

Man, what to say.

I am in there with you. D-day July 12. Very hard withdrawal period. She said some extremely hateful things. I can only tell you that some of them were to the point of me thinking: Why do i even want this person in my life.

It has really improved. Here is what i have done:
1. told her that she is not tied to me with a ball and chain.
2. told her that i am not her enemy
3. told her that she can leave at any time
4. told her that i love her and want to work it out.

The fog has lifted in the last couple of weeks because of NC. She has seen a new side of me and i have witnessed the power of NC with OM.

I went to the doctor and got on AD's. That for me was a huge step. I am not a pill taker, so much so that i don't even take antibiotics.

I realized that i couldn't Plan A unless i had some help calming my nerves.

It has worked wonders. My Plan A has resulted in talk of regret, sorrow, tears, please forgive me's and much more.

My WW has seen a new me and seen the light of the A for what it was.

Give it time. Give her some space. Plan A your [censored] off.

I know how bad it sucks but you've got to be the strong one. Show her everyday how much she means to you.

I bought my wife flowers every other day for a two months. I told her how much she meant to me and continue to do so.

Be strong and it will work.

Thanks KCM....I've been there as well. The guilt, the tears, the I'm not sure what to do. I've had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing all of this from my WW.

This is a new step. I was about 2 days away from Plan B (after my C with Steve H on Wednesday was my plan).

I guess now that this twist came up tonight, I'm trying to digest it and figure the best way to handle it.

Not even sure where she is right now. Either way, her apartment is only 1.5 miles away and OM lives about 6 miles beyond that.

I don't have any trust. I know it's a long road for that but I can't help but wonder....

If you were planning on telling OM you wanted to call it quits, why didn't you tell me?

Trust. Not a word I feel right now........LS

Lost,

I agree. Stick to Plan A. I realize you want to enforce NC 100%. It even seems to be an all or nothing deal breaker, but LOVE HER. Let her know that you are so proud that she has begun the process. Then ask her how she plans on dealing with the contact at work. Can she find a way to avoid MOST of the casual contacts? Can she enforce her own boundries? If you force a job change (which she might have to do eventually) before SHE wants to do that then you risk that being a LB and sending her fustrated right back into the arms of the OM. Be loving. Be accepting. Encourage her...she's going to go through withdrawl and need your support and she will need for YOU to begin meet all her EN.

I know it's hard. But plan A lets her see what a contrast there is between the OM (A is now in crisis) and you. Let her see the WONDERFUL and LOVING YOU.

She will pick you!

2scared

Thanks all....I followed the common theme of the responses and that's what I did. I Plan A'd when WW came home (actually came home during my last post and shut the computer down quickly).

Here's what transpired (BTW, there is a question at the end - please bear with me as I want to be accurate if anyone has opinions/advice/input):

Didn't have too much opportunity to Plan A but did what I could. WW came in and played with DD. I re-heated her tea and sat it down next to her. WW drank about half.

Both of us were in the kitchen and before I could say anything, WW said "I'm never telling you anything again" (heard that several times before). I added "I was going to tell you that I appreciate your honesty and telling me". WW said "I'm so tired of being honest". I left it at that because DD came into the kitchen. WW/DD went to den. I went outside.

WW came outside. Essentially the conversation went like this. WW said "I don't care what your papers, books or counselor says about NC. I'm not going to quit my job after 25 years". I said "I know".

WW said "we'll never have what we had before. You'll never trust me, always ask where I'm at or where I'm going". I didn't respond because I figure it's too early to talk about trust but I wanted to say "you're right. You are untrustable". Instead I said "we can rebuild". After a few minutes of silence she said "you tell me I'm a sparrow and can fly but you get so defensive but you get mad/angry (can't recall the exact word). I said "you have your freedom, I can't stop you. I'm here and will be here for as long as I can".

Nothing else was said although we sat together (not real close, two separate chairs) for about 5 minutes until WW went back inside.

Both of us did the nightly ritual of putting DD to bed. While I was reading to DD, WW cleaned the kitchen ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )

I did put a pillow (albeit a Sponge Bob pillow given to me on my birthday) in her car w/o her knowing and wrote the following note: Someone to hug up to. Hopefully you won't cut his arms off (smiley face).

After DD was asleep, went into the kitchen and WW had the (what I now call standard) confused/frustrated look on her face. Looked me in the eye and said "I guess I'll continue my charade as you put it." That comment is from last night when I couldn't help myself and said prior to her leaving for the apartment "let the charade continue".

I walked WW out to the garage and she left for her apartment. Guess she won't be calling me tonight to let me know she got in okay - she's called every night to let me know she was in.

Based on my other thread (when I was close to LBing left and right), it was suggested that I take some time away to think and clear my head.

I'm still considering that after I C with SH on Wednesday. Is that something I should do?

I don't plan on telling WW where I'm going, just that I'll be gone for a couple days. Bad idea or something needed? It'll give her space and me time to think.

I'm not sure considering the latest round. Any opinions?

BTW, WW just called to let me know she got into the apartment okay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Very short conversation (WW - I'm in the apartment. Me - Good I was wondering. Get some sleep and I'll see you in the morning).

Thanks all for your quick responses. I truly believe I may have went the other route and tried to talk too much about the events earlier in the evening.........LS

LS -

Okay, that is a good sign that she is thinking about letting this guy go. My advice is not to do anything until you talk to Steve. Wait for his expert advice.

You are doing very, very well. I would continue being pleasant and Plan A'ing until your appointment. If you get stressed, exercise and come here to vent. We understand.

I do think that your situation is very promising. Your wife seems very attached to you.

sailor - let's step back and look at her situation from a distance - the big picture.

We don't have to look too long nor too close.

I'll cut to the conclusion: There's NO FRIGGIN' WAY a 24 year old kid living with Mommy is going to seriously take up with a 42 year old woman with a child. NO WAY! Ain't gonna happen.

Have you considered confronting him? Hold that thought.

I strongly suggest you take a more passive role with her (after re-exposing to Mommy) and bide your time. Try REAL hard to NOT take seriously or personally anything she does that suggests she and OM are a permanent fixture. Refer to the "NO FRIGGIN' WAY" conclusion above. Yes, this is hard on you, but maybe if you keep in mind the big picture, it will be more tolerable, if not a dark comedy.

Now, about confronting OM. This tactic isn't always embraced by MBers on this forum. But anecdotal stories abound when it has worked, especially for your sitch - young kid OM and older, wiser male BS. I'm not talking about a violent confrontation, just a "Do you know what you're messing with, son?" type of visual reality.

Ask Steve about this.

WAT

Hello Board.....Things once again have changed.

I Plan A'd and waited my time with Steve H. After WW told me she'd called it off with OM, she was bitter and distant. Told me we can never have trust again, tired of being honest, etc. I let her talk and only added "we can rebuild".

When WW showed up the next morning, it was Plan A time again. It was easier as I wasn't upset and had a decent night's sleep. WW told me "you're tired of me ain't you". I told her "no, I'm not tired of you" and left it at that. Not a bad morning. Pleasant conversation, etc. The phone calls (she called me twice and I called her once) were very distant and short. Quite different than face to face. The day continued as "normal a.k.a. abnormal".

I woke up this morning to find WW asleep with DD. I was shocked. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WW must have come in around 0200-0300. (Probably more shocked that I didn't hear her - neither did my Beagle!) I was also pleased and told her I'm glad she came home and got some sleep.

I counseled with Steve H today. A couple points.....WAT wrote:

Now, about confronting OM. This tactic isn't always embraced by MBers on this forum. But anecdotal stories abound when it has worked, especially for your sitch - young kid OM and older, wiser male BS. I'm not talking about a violent confrontation, just a "Do you know what you're messing with, son?" type of visual reality.

SH thought that was a good idea - sorta. Based on my plan of how I intended to implement Plan B (deliver letter to WW, deliver letter to OM, deliver letter to OM's mother), he said face to face with OM would make sense. Let's OM know that yes, I exist - I do love my wife - I do love my family - it's all in the letter. Leave it at that. Don't allow OM to say something stupid like "it's not my fault your wife is calling me" or anything that would cause my normally even temper to go awry!

Based on the fact that I've never even seen OM, SH said it would be good for me to see OM so I can identify the "drug" for the addiction. Once again, every situation is different and in my case seeing/talking/delivering letter to OM makes sense.

However, I'm not going to Plan B yet. SH and I have a plan for about one week - about all I could stand without LBing and backtracking.

SH advised that I need to let WW know how much she is hurting me. There isn't any debate there. My emotions, my feelings and there isn't any "demands", just pure fact - what you are doing is hurting me and hurting any chance for us to have a mutually enjoyable marriage".

Well, I took the opportunity and went to see her at work. Had the opportunity and seized it. WW's response was "I know you're hurting, I can see it" and "what a tangled web I've woven". So I added "yes, and the spider is eating me up inside". Also re-attempted for WW to C with SH.

It worked. Later WW told me to set up C with SH for Friday morning. WW also is asleep right now in our bed. Came home after work, I had fixed dinner, we ate and then WW pretty much sat on the couch. DD and I played and did homework. WW said I'm calling it an early night and we tucked her in our bed!

Thank you all for the guidance and I'll post if there are changes and certainly after C with SH.

The biggest thing I learned today was about phraseology. Let your WS know that what they are doing is hurting you vice tossing out ways for the WS to stop. Basic MB principles that worked for me today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .........LS

LS,
Hey friend I just noticed your thread and I'm over here smiling partner. Congratulations on keeping a cool head, keep it up. I wanted to comment on the exposure or face-to-face with OM. I did use this tactic on D-Day, it was pre-MB. When I discovered my W's cellphone after some mysteriously time gaps, no calls home and what have you, I called the most frequent number; it was OM. I didn't do a face to face, but the phone did help. I told him in no uncertain terms that my W is here with me, has been for almost 2 years, we are not seperated, we share the same bed, dressers, meals and home. OM was either shocked or pretended to be shocked. My phone call to OM zapped him with a huge dose of reality. He wanted to continue our conversation and divulge more facts, he actually gave me the impression he was on my side, but I as Dr. Harley advised, kept it pretty much straightforward and didn't let the convo drag on with him giving me all types of reasons to lose my head.

My W returned to me physically for different stretches throughout the 2 months following D-Day. She did make attempts to keep OM in the loop, but I think my confronting him really shook him to the core and made him realize he was not in it for the long haul. We will never know all the things that rush thru OM' mind, but I'm sure having to talk to WW's H who's not supposed to love her, or be with her is a serious jolt to the fantasyland he may have been picturing. Fast forward to my W's fog slow lift: She has said on more than one occassion that the best thing I did was confront OM. Point Blank. I'm sure he had told her many things, but my confrontation was like a put up or shut up, and seeing that our W's probably have some type of fantasy in their heads regarding OM rescuing them in some galant way, the reality that he doesn't want the drama, nor responsibility is stunning to our W's. The acceptance that NO, OM is not on a white horse, and doesn't truly intend on getting his world effected by my W's family issues did help sober up my W from her fog coma. She did try to keep the relationship alive alone, pledging in emails to her girlfriends that she would get OM back no matter what...BLAH. Their R was built to fail and my W's stubbborness couldn't cloud that reality, indefinetly anyway. The OP in my drama is a almost 10 years younger than my W, and his goals, plans and overall frame of mind didn't have him in his heart of hearts settling down and replacing me, though he talked a good game I think part of him thanked me for the phone call. My phone call to him, absolved him from his verbal committments to my W, mostly induced by her fantasy dream of happily ever after in fogland. OM started running as fast as he could, and I don't think my W had the stamina to chase OM and lure him into continuing their A.

Welp, thats just my take on my situation. The only 2 people that really know all the details are OM and my W, but I do agree with my W, exposre/confronting OM punctured the fantasy balloon. After I left this gaping hole in their fantasy balloon it was a matter of time before it floated down to the real world. Was my W upset with me for calling OM? Did my W say some very hurtful things to me abot putting my nose in HER business? YUP! Right on all counts!! Contacting OM was still the best thing I could've done. The second best thing I could've done was Plan A'd my butt off to give her reasons to chose me. The fact her A ended doesn't mean she HAD to by default return to me! Plan A was the lighthouse as ARK puts it, she was able to use it to guide her home. I ended up in Plan B for my own well-being after she left the 2nd time, probably to chase OM and partly to wig out..you be the judge. Anyway, that's some points in my story that might at least let you know I've been there. LS, you have alot going for you in this situation, but I know it's sometimes hard to tune out the fogtalk that is so stinging from you W these days. Please use the reverse babble, and all of Dr. Harleys advice. Friend, I'll be keeping my eye on your threads and giving my humble opinion where I think I have something of value to add. I think you're doing a great job!! Here's to you partner, your D is proud of you, do you know that? You are SAVING your M, alone! At least attempting to do so, hey maybe the Sailor AINT as LOST as he once was? You're doing alot better than I did during this phase. Keep it up soldier, keep it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks FM....Once again, you've put into words what I needed.

I did manage to have C with Steve H tomorrow for my WW. It was part of the plan and based on WW's demeanor last night and this morning, I truly hope it helps. It pains me to see her "lost" and it pains me to feel the way I do. A precarious situation that I hope/pray with time/effort results in a relationship like others have posted about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BTW, I've been reading quite a few posts and I must say that you've quickly become one of the "experienced ones". There have been numerous new postings that have had detailed direction/explanation/etc. from FamilyMatters. I've saved most of the "experienced" postings and just to let you know, you already have your own folder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Still learning from ya and it appears things are working themselves out in your neck of the woods. Hope all is well with FM, FM babies and FM's FWW!

.........LS

LS,
I'm learning so much, though I have my flashes of greatness I still have my waves of confusion. I am weary of being called a veteran. I learn something or deepen my knowledge of these concepts each day based on sharing with so many of the posters here. I don't see myself as a real guide at this point. I do try to give my honest opinion, couple that with my optimism, recent awakening to the bible and slide in a slice of reality checks here and there, and hopefully I do have something of merit to contribute.

Hang in there friend, remember if I can't quit neither can you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sometimes when you give others advice you're merely re-affirming in yourself what YOU should do, its funny how this process wrks huh? I've got your back!

FM