Hi, I am new here and I would like to ask some questions. My wife and I have been married for almost 10 years and have 2 kids both 6 years old and we separated 2 months ago, she asked me to move out because she was tired of trying to save the marriage and came to the conclusion that she could never be happy with me, that she feels that if she doesnt want to try anymore is because she doesnt love me anymore the same way she used to. She is right in some of the complaints that she have about me but she made many mistakes too, neither of us has had an affair is just that she blames everything on my caracter, she says that it is to strong and when I have an angry outbursts she feels very bad and that she hasnt felt loved for some time, the wierd thing about it is that I never knew she was unhappy or how unhappy she was, we had some fights here and there but nothing that big, we came from a 1 month trip to Europe and we had a great time, 1 month after that she decided to call it quits because of an stupid fight.
We went to couples therapy twice together and a few times on our own, we changed therapists because we didnt like the first one, she went only to one session together and one on her own and hasn't come back yet, I am still going on my own. When she asked me to move out I told her that I wanted to try and save the marriage but she said that she was to tired to try and that she wanted me to sign a Legal separation and I told her that she was going to have to wait because it was to fast for me but she said she wanted a divorce and we had to wait for a year after the separation. She kept presuring me over the signing and I kept telling that I wasnt ready, after a month of the separation I went on a trip and one day I called her and told her that I was ready, when I came back on a Monday she made me go to the house instead of letting me pick up the kids, she sat with me for 2 1/2 hours and told me that I looked happy and very simpatetic, we had a very good time, we talked abut the legal papers and we saw each other next friday to discus the terms of the legal separation, somehow she new that I went out with a girl in my trip a few times and was very angry about it then she called me from the lawyers office next tuesday telling me that the marriage is heading this way because I went out on my trip, I reminded her that it was her desicion not mine and that my going out has nothing to do with it and that it didnt meant nothing but still she was angry about it, the weird thing is that in the past I received the lawyers e-mail the next day and this time the e-mail never came. I saw her on friday when I went to pick up my kids and she started talking about our problem and told me that she now feels good about starting going out and I told her that it was fine with me if that is what she wants, thenshe calls on sunday and wanted to talk about the same thing and I told her that I didn't want to talk about the same thing all over again but she pressed the issue and I talked to her for over an hour, she told me that since neither of us want to try and save the marriage that is going to end in divorce, I told her that I love her but that I feel fine now but I don't know how I am going to feel in the future and that she is presuring things, then i went home to pick up the kids and we talked for another hour, she started crying because she felt frustrated that the marriage is going to be over, that I had done all the changes that she wanted but not with her but out of the house and that those changes are not important to her anymore, then I left and at night we talked on the phone for another hour, today I went to her house and asked her what was what she wanted and told me that she wants to sign the legal separation and wait the year and divorce, then she said that she didn't want the terms of the separation that we have areed a week before and that if she didnt want to sign them that way we could be on this situation for many years, I told her that I will only sign them the way they were and she told me that it is always like that with me, my way or the highway and I told her that she can think whatever she wants but we both agreed on the terms. I asked her why have you been all week trying to find out my position regarding us if you feel the same way and she played dumb telling me that she never said anything I got up and was ready to leave and she told to me not to, that she was sorry is she said things that I misunderstood but that she loves me but she made up her mind that she is never going to be happy with me, then she tells me to keep working on my changes, I told her that I love her but I feel good now and that the only way that our marriage can work is if she forgets all the problems of the past and start all over again but that is not what she wants now. I don't understand what is going on with her and altough I fell fine with myself now I do Love her very much and i dont want my marriage to end. Any help would be appretiated.

Do you really feel good now, or are you just telling her that?

I feel good now with myself but that has nothing to do with her, I was very depresed when I was home. I told her that and she said that is sad for her that I never came out of my depresion at her side.

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Ilusion ]</small>

Bump

Okay, you can start in Plan A. Read all about it on the link in my sig line. You have some time to work the MB program.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> somehow she new that I went out with a girl in my trip a few times and was very angry about it then she called me from the lawyers office next tuesday telling me that the marriage is heading this way because I went out on my trip, I reminded her that it was her desicion not mine and that my going out has nothing to do with it and that it didnt meant nothing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, right off the bat I have to tell you that dating another woman and telling your wife that it's HER fault isn't the way to save your marriage. Obviously, it does have something to do with your marriage as you are still married and your wife is very upset about it. Please try to see it from her point of view. It's hard to believe that you're making a good effort at changing and reconciling if you're going out on dates and think it's ok. Please don't repeat this behavior and spend some time thinking about whether it's really ok or not. An apology to your wife is in order as well.

From reading your post, I suspect that you still feel this is mostly her fault. Please read up on this site about the love bank and love busters. I think you're still committing a lot of them and things will not get better until you make a real effort to change yourself. Telling you that you love her isn't enough. You need to show her through your actions.

I think that if you're willing to try, you have a good chance of getting your wife back. But you need to change the way you're behaving with her. Are you willing to do that?

Please think about all that you have to lose if you don't rebuild your marriage and try to make the right decisions. We'll be here to help you however we can. This is a wonderful group of people who want to help you learn how to make your marriage a success. Best of luck to you.

You have got to go simple and basic on this whole situation....

1. STOP ALL the chaos on your end...
get your words and actions lined up

2. Decide that in the here and now you don't want a divorce or a seperation and and tell your wife that.

3. Tell her why you don't want a seperation....
because you believe with all your heart that you and the children should be together.

4. Tell her that you believe that you and her can make this a great marriage

that the only way that our marriage can work is if she forgets all the problems of the past and start all over again but that is not what she wants now.

wrong wrong wrong....forgetting problems doesn't fix things...
married people need to learn to problem solve together...

somehow she new that I went out with a girl in my trip a few times and was very angry about it then she called me from the lawyers office next tuesday telling me that the marriage is heading this way because I went out on my trip, I reminded her that it was her desicion not mine and that my going out has nothing to do with it and that it didnt meant nothing but still she was angry about it,

YOU need to own this issue
YOU need to apologize for this issue...NOT for a second hold any one else responsible for it but you
YOU need to make ammends to this issue...

YOU need to do this...

YOU need to do all of these things inspite of your fear
YOU need to do all of these things inspite of her confusion...

YOU need to move back in with your children..
dad's don't come and go
dad's stay with their family
and
DAD'S DON'T DATE.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You need to read up on plan A and learn to do it...

this is ALL about you...
you can only control you..
and from this moment on you begin to behave like a man that wants his family and marriage...

ARK

I think I do understand from where you coming from Ilusion.

I dont disgaree at all with the advice you have gotten here, but I do see where you feel a bit like you do.

You go on a holiday. all is great, then what is out of the blue for you your wife wants you out of the house. She wants to end the M.
So you try to go to a MC, your wife does not really put any effort in and then puts the pressure on for a legal separation/ divorce.

I surmise you gave up a bit and went away to clear the cobwebs and while working on yourself, go out with a girl and obviously have a good time. YOU are happy. You have made changes in your life!

You get back, your wife can see the BIG difference in you and then also guesses you had a girl with you. SHE gets angry and you felt well its your fault you told me to go!!
In a way I dont disagree with you at all.

How am I doing, close to what you feel?

But notice she also picked up what seems an attitude change, maybe the very thing which made you attractive to the other woman perhaps???

Yes I think your wife did handle the issue of the problems in your M badly. Well shes human, she made an mistake, and she does not sound like she rally wants to end it either. I think she feels she has painted herslf into a corner and can't get out.

She does not want what you had before, but she would like what it could be. I think she sees the potential your M could be where before she saw nothing but what has hurt her over a period of time.

You were on the right track before with a MC, but you need a good one who is pro marriage.
I guess his is time of opportunity or parting, you are probbably the person who will decide that. Accept there were things wrong before and though perhaps very hard to hear it from our wife, you need to know why this all happened.
Dont brush it under the carpet, look at the mistakes you both made and work on a new beginning.

Get info from here, from MC's and yes, your w must also participate if there is going to be any hope. You have a lot better chance than many who come here with affairs in their m. So go and do it.

Dont be afraid to ask for help here either.

Well, the best thing that you could do in your situation is to ask for help. So congratulations there.

Have you read all of the MB information? If not, do so. It is crucial to understanding your marriage.

Have you and your wife filled out the questionaires and shared them? If not, do so. It is the best way to get a clear understanding of what the other person is looking for.

If she won't, then try to fill hers out for her based on what she has said she wants and does not like.

Then, act on it and try to stop the lovebusters that destroy life and start to make as many love deposits as you can.

You are where many MBers find themselves - as being the only one who really has any motivation to recover the relationship. So the one who really wants to recover the relationship is the one who has to start, the one who has to be the driving force and the one who has to be spot-on with their behavior.

You have to build up some hope in her - some deposits in her love bank.

In other words, you will need to focus primarily on what you are giving to the relationship and put aside your Taker for awhile. That doesn't mean you can't respectfully ask for things, but DO NOT EXPECT THEM. And don't use her lack of motivation or action as an excuse to let your behavior slide. This is about focusing on you - give YOUR all to be the best possible husband. That is the only way that you will know that you have done your all for the marriage.

It sounds like your wife just gave up on hope that you would take her seriously. It does sound like she would love for you to become a good husband so that she could be a good wife. It sounds like she wants things to work out.

But just when you are saying that you want to work things out you start dating? That is adultery. Why? Do you not want to be married? Are you unsure? Are you only willing to work on the marriage on your terms? Does she need to "forget the past" in order for you to work on it? Blaming her for your behavior will not get you anywhere - not to her, not in your own head.

You have to make real and consistent changes in order for her to believe in you again. Over time her resentment will lessen and the past will become less and less of an issue. But it has to start with you.

You need to decide what messages you want to send to her and consistently send those messages, backed up by your actions. ALWAYS.

Blessings. Good luck.

Thanks all of you for your comments and support, sorry for the delay in answering but was away on a trip.

-) Believer: Okay, you can start in Plan A. Read all about it on the link in my sig line. You have some time to work the MB program.
How can I implement a Plan A if I am out of the house.

-) Dobie: I sent an e-mail today apolagizing to her for my behaivor regarding the dates with the other girl. I don't think is her fault, i know we both are at fault. I am willing to try and save my marriage no matter what.

-) Ark: I already told her a few days after I left that I didn't want a separation or divorce but she insisted on the separation and I agreed to her wishes. I would like to go back but at least for now that's not an option with her.

-) Aussie2: Sometimes I think that she really wants to end it, in the last 5 days is the only thing that she tells me. The MC is Pro marriage and after 3 weeks of separation I felt the same thing that she got herself into a corner and doesn't know how to get out, she has talked to much to people telling them that her desicion is final and a lot more things.

-) nursebetty: She filled the questionares abut 3 weeks and she left them at my house when I was on my trip, I read them but I haven't told her anything about it and she hasn't told me nothing either, I haven't filled mine but I will do it tomorrow and gave them to her. Her position is that the marriage can't be saved so its going to be hard to convinve her otherwise.

<small>[ September 23, 2004, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: Ilusion ]</small>

Last week was a hard week, my wife's family is going on a holiday trip in December to Miami and Washington and they made reservations for her Mom, Dad, my wife and my 2 kids from December 14 till January 14, my mother in law called me on Tuesday last week to tell me the dates and asked me what I was going to do in December so I can arrange mi schedule and see mi kids the days that are pre-established in the legal separation draft and for me to pay for the kids tickets only the next day, they will pay for my wife's ticket, I told her that I haven't planned my Holidays yet but for 15 days the kids are mine and for 15 days the kids are hers, she got a little bit angry and told me that one of the problems of me not signing the legal separation is that terms regarding the kids on the holidays are not yet legally established and tried to preasure me into deciding my plans, I left it at that and told her that I will talk to my wife and decide what to do.

when my wife got home we let luck decide and I ended up with them from December the 14 till the 28th and she will have them from December 29 till January 14 but that was on hold for now because I needed to talk to her because I didn't saw my kids neither Monday or Tuesday and in Wednsday she got home at around 8:30 PM and she knew that I was going on a 5 day trip the followind day, I never called her to tell her that I wanted to see the kids earlier that day but I assumed that she knew better, when I complained why she arrived so late since I haven't seen my kids for three days and I was leaving the next morning she said that since we haven't signed a legal separation nothing was written on my visit days, I think it was a low punch since in the 2 months that we have been separated we haven't had any problems reagrding visits with the kids, then she said that what do I care anyway since In January I stayed in Miami for 1 month without seeing neither the kids or her, and also told me that I didn't enjoy them enough when I was Home and that I shouldn't care now If i don't see them for 3 days.

Those commnets made me mad and I told her that the signing of the legal separation has now been pushed for 6 months, then she told me that she wanted to go out and since we haven't signed anything she will do it anyway, that she wanted to dance, meet other man and so on, I left and we talk on the phone for about an hour, It was a pleasant conversation, she told me that she felt very good and the talk was like when we where dating 12 Years ago.

Later That night I sent her a text message telling her to put the plans on hold for the trip because I felt that something was not right, at 7:30 AM she called me when I was getting into the plane and asked me what happened and I told her that I didn't like some things that she said and that I felt that she doesn't love me anymore, she said that she thinks that she doesn't because she wants a divorce and I told her that then she or her family have to pay for the kids trip since if she wants a separation she will know what a separation means, I have paid for all the bills the same way I did before I left and have been giving her a little bit more money monthly that I did when I was home but I will pay for the trips that I plan for my kids and she should pay for the ones she plans (she doesn't work).

She went balistic and hang up the phone, I called her on Saturday and had a fight because she sent my kid to the beach for the weekend with a family friend without even telling me in advance, she sent me a text message 1 hour after he departed and I couldn't to talk to him for 3 days, I exploded in one of my angry outbursts of the past but didn't insult her or anything like that, I hanged the phone and she called 3 times, each time I told her that I was too angry and didn't want to talk to her and that I was going to fight for half custody. The next day I called my daugther and talked to my wife, she was receptive but a little bit angry about the custody part.

On Monday I talked to her again and the same custody conversation came up, I arrived yesterday and this time she wasnt home I went out to eat with my kids and when we got home I waited for her, when she arrived she had a sad or tired face and told me that she wasn't expecting to see me but we talked for some time, she saw the kids clothing and gifts that I have brouth them and I gave her some things that I bought for her, she was a little bit amazed that I brought something for her particulary some expensive shoes that didn't fit her good by the way but she seemed pleased. Today we talked because she took the kids to a friends house and I called her at 8:45 and told her that my boy was supposed to go out with me today and she compalined that I didn't told her anything about it which was true, we talked for some time and she was a little bit angry, she said that my mood swings have her lost and that she didn't understand that I had an angry outburst on saturday and now I bought gifts for her, I said that she was right and I said that I was sorry about it and we talked a little bit more but her position is the same that this marriage can't be saved.

<small>[ September 23, 2004, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Ilusion ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I said that she was right and I said that I was sorry about it and we talked a little bit more but her position is the same that this marriage can't be saved.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And it will be for awhile until she starts to rebuild her love for you, sees consistent changes from you and knows that you are committed to working on this marriage.

I know that the two of you gave up on MC. If she will not go back yet, then I suggest you go alone for individual counseling either with the MC or another to work on your issues. Make an appointment for ASAP today.

Explain to your counselor and to your wife that you plan on working on yourself, with the immediate goal to come out of this a better man. You might even thank your wife for telling you what you need to work on.

Explain that your immediate goals are to work on your anger, mood swings and communication skills. Explain that with all of the issues that have already come up that even if you do end up divorce that you will have to have BETTER communication skills when divorced than when you are married.

Send the consistent message that you are trying to become a better man for your family, that you love her and want to be in a great marriage with her. Paint her a picture, not of presents or trips, but of feelings and simple things. She will understand. Tell her that you will become a better man either way and that you hope she will choose to be with you, that you aren't willing to give up on her yet.

As for Plan A, what are her top needs? You don't have to live with her to do Plan A - many people HAVE to do it that way. Sure it is harder, but you can start to make those deposits. If you can share her top five with us we can help you brainstorm how to meet her needs outside of the house.

Don't beat yourself up for the angry outburst. It will only bring you down. Just move forward and commit to not letting it happen again. Apologize if you haven't already and tell her your plan to work on your anger.

It does not matter that she has an anger problem too. I know it should but it doesn't right now. It will later and you will be surprised at how she will be able to follow in your footsteps and work on her own issues. You just have to make it safe for her to do so by changing yourself, requesting respectfully what you want from her, NOT EXPECTING ANYTHING THOUGH, and not judging or tearing her down when she lovebusts. If you make it into a contest telling her that you have done so much, changed so much, then she will not feel safe to change if she has a stubborn streak (as I suspect she does).

Distance yourself from her when she tries to lovebust if you can, much as you did when you told her that you couldn't talk to her. When she does that, tell her, "I love you but I cannot talk right now. I am learning better ways of handling my anger and I can't do this right now. I will call you at...._________" and then call at that time to talk, after you have had a chance to calm down. Nothing is more frustrating to an angry woman than to hear that the man can't talk to her. Often, and I don't know if you used to do this, but men often use that as an excuse to NOT talk about it. Women feel that it never gets resolved. If you can prove that you will come back to it after a brief cooling off time (30 minutes - 24 hours) then she will accept your statements and not keep calling back to fight.

Unless she has gifts as her top three or so, I would also hold off giving her anything too extravagant and focus on other needs. It is relatively easy to buy gifts. Even someone who has gifts in their top needs will eventually look at it and say "Ok, he can buy me these expensive shoes that don't fit me, but he's dating other women and still having angry outbursts. He's just trying to buy me off."

You are making progress, you are growing and changing. Just keep going, stay positive and focus on getting your family back together.

nursebetty: I haven't give up on MC, I'm still going, my wife was the one that stoped going. Today again she started talking about the signing of the legal separation and I told her that I wasn't ready, she got very angry and told me that us will never happen again, that she feels beter right now than when she was living with me, that she wants to find a man who loves her and that us won't happen again no matter what. She even told me not to come to the house again, just to call the maid so she can bring down or pick up the kids.

Her top needs are:

1-) Affection
2-) Honesty and Openness
3-) Sexual Fulfillment
4-) Conversation
5-) Financial Support
6-) Admiration
7-) An Attractive Spouse
8-) Family Commitment
9-) Recreational Companionship
10-) Domestic Support

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Ilusion ]</small>

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