I have finally reached a point where I not only no longer hold out any hope for reconcilation, but also want my H out of the house ASAP. Even though we agreed to keep things civil and respectful for the sake of the kids (haven't told them yet) - H keeps disapearing to be with OW day and night, and the latter is especially hard on me, and bad for the kids too. I have basically said that we need to move the move out day up to as soon as he returns from his business trips (he leaves for 3 weeks on Friday.)Its like he has completely gone over the edge - " we are getting a divorce, so what does it matter whether I am running around with her or not?" The fact is that he has zero respect for my feelings at the end of our marriage after 14 years. So at least I am no longer in denial. Saw an attorney yesterday who gave me some great advice.

And H doesn't back down at all with the divorce and move out talk. He totally agrees, is basically one step ahead of me - no calling his bluff, I'm afraid. Once he confessed that he hopes to end up with OW, its as if any fleeting emotions he had in my direction were completely replaced by all of his emotions now pointed at OW. So much for the love bank.

Anyway, the one thing I feel very strongly about is their nice neat little "do the right thing and we can say this is OK" package. Make it look like he is leaving me for other reasons, she is leaving her H for other reasons, and then they will end up together and no one will think they left their respective spouses (and kids, in our case) for each other. I have no intention of bad mouthing him all over town, but I do feel that I am not going to pretend this was my idea, and that another woman was not involved. There are tons of friends and co-workers who knew about their A the first time around, so people are going to figure it out anyway.

As far as telling the poor husband, I don't think this is wise. The reason being, I remember vividly an incident with an old boyfriend where an irate (and immature) ex male friend of my boyfriend called me to blurt out that my boyfriend had cheated on me, because he was mad at my boyfriend for flirting with his girlfriend. I remember that I thought "this guy doesn't care a thing about hurting me or my feelings, he just wants to get back at my boyfriend." The disclosure didn't break us up, but I thought he was a total jerk for using me to get back at my boyfriend by disclosing the cheating. Its not my place to tell the H, I don't want to stoop to hurting him just to cause problems for the OW and my soon to be ex-H.

However, if I could arrange for someone else to
disclose - this would be fine! They are being so blatant about running around together I figure its only a matter of time before someone sees them and it gets back to the H. Besides, if he does find out, he will probably kick his wife out and right into my H's lap. Of course, this would spoil their nice neat little plan to make this look as innocent as possible, and also fast track their relationship, which I think is doomed to derail eventually, and I will be happy to see this come to pass the sooner the better, not to hope that my H comes back to me, but to prove that maybe all the hurt they caused everyone was not worth it.

Then again, maybe it IS true love and they will live happily ever after. H told me last night that he still hasn't had sex with OW this time around. Why? - "because she is Catholic and married, and she has alot of guilt!" Puleese!
So I guess they just make out alot. Probably "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" type of deal. Whatever.

I am rambling now - anyone else have experience with a "classy" disclosure method and not come out looking like a vindictive, bitter BS?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Everhopeful:
<strong>As far as telling the poor husband, I don't think this is wise. The reason being, I remember vividly an incident with an old boyfriend where an irate (and immature) ex male friend of my boyfriend called me to blurt out that my boyfriend had cheated on me, because he was mad at my boyfriend for flirting with his girlfriend. I remember that I thought "this guy doesn't care a thing about hurting me or my feelings, he just wants to get back at my boyfriend." The disclosure didn't break us up, but I thought he was a total jerk for using me to get back at my boyfriend by disclosing the cheating.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're kidding, right?

You're not seriously equating "boyfriend" behavior with home wrecking, right?

How long has this been going on and you still haven't alerted OW's H????

Your member number is lower than mine and you haven't yet accepted the necessity of exposure????

Let them have their fantasy that all this is "normal." The infidels in my case are exactly the same. They're the only two on the planet who believe it.

But tell all to the other BS. He should have been alerted long ago.

Everhopeful...(I like your ID name)...I clicked on your name and then recent posts on the right hand side and found your post explaining your story.

With your permission, I am copying and pasting it here as to give all a better understanding of your circumstances...It will save you lots of typing.~lol~(I see the OW said she told her H about the affair but maybe that was just a story/lie she told your H?) I put that part in bold....
Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

************************************************

Everhopeful
Member
Member # 6245

posted July 12, 2004 08:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its been awhile since I've posted. Probably 2 years at least, maybe three. I'm back on the board because,after all this time of recovery, at least 3 years, 5 years since the A started, 4 years since DD and 3 years since I thought we were in recovery (no contact) the A resurfaced.

Total disbelief on my part. H has been happy as a clam, claiming no desire to talk to OW, hadn't heard from her in 2 years - whatever. I was out last month on two business trips one week each. During the last trip, H said she called him - what a coincidence with me out of town. (she has been married herself for 2 years now, trying to have a baby, told him she just had surgery last week to facilitate that goal).

For two weeks, even after I returned, they saw each other every other day. H says no sex - just lunch and happy hour drinks) (yeah, right), but it really doesn't matter, because he betrayed me once again, any way you look at it. I found out because after their last date she confessed to her H and he threatened to divorce her. My H had to leave that night to give her "moral support" while she pleaded with him not leave her. Meanwhile the kids and I are home wondering where daddy ran off to. Nice to see where his priorities are when the crisis comes to a head.

We have been married 13 years, two great kids who adore their dad and we have had a very happy, loving, marriage, pre and post affair, until now. ln I thought we were back on the straight and narrow almost 3 years running. He says it was just an "innocent" catching up with each other that got out of hand, and blew up when she decided to confess to her H. He says she proved to him once again that she is a drama queen and he thinks she just used him to create a scene with her H to stir up a crisis. He claims that he made a huge mistake, wants nothing to do with her, and that our marriage and family is what really matters to him...that it will never ever happen again. He says he is willing to see a counselor to figure out what his problem is.

I'm not away from home very often, nor do I neglect him when I am at home. He has a loving, loyal wife, good sex, great kids, wonderful home, job, great social life with just the two of us, and plenty of outside activities, both with male friends and other couples. We just bought the vacation home of our dreams, he just got a promotion, lots of money blah blah blah, in short, about as good a life as it gets, but he still chooses to risk losing it all to have the fleeting excitement, novelty = whatever, to be with the OW after 3 years of what I thought was solid recovery. Unless he gets outside counseling and gets to the bottom of his impulsive behavior, I will never feel safe.

This man has a short curcuit when it comes to responsible decisions, and needs professional help, pure and simple, to find out why he chooses such destructive behavior at the expense of his loved ones. That is the ultimatim I've given him.

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade who is making good solid recovery. But I need to vent, and am too embarrassed by this relapse which totally blindsided me to talk to friends and family. I'm sure there are many WS and Bs who learn from their mistakes and turn things around. I am just devastated to discover that he is still capable of the same self centered, destructive behavior after all these years, and all that we have been through together to try and rebuild. 5 years of recovery totally destroyed in a 2 week period of weakness and self indulgence.


I will not put my kids through the pain of making him move out, just to prove a point, but I feel beaten and totally defeated. Once again, he chose her over his wife and family, lied to be with her, totally was able to ignore his family at home while he hung out with her.


My sincere prayers and hopes for all of you out there who have and are suffered through the "h" of infidelity.

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

I TOTALLY think you should tell him.

Everhopeful, if the OW H discovered her and your WH, and you were still at home, in the dark, doing WH's laundry, making love, enjoying the relationship, while he was out cheating on you behind your back, wouldn't you be relieved that he would have had the courtesy to call and tell you??? Would you feel like OW-H was being spiteful or trying to hurt your H, or would you feel appreciative that someone had the decency to tell you, so you could make your own choices, WITH FULL DISCLOSURE, about the situation, instead of being in the dark.

When my WH came home and announced that he did not love me anymore, I KNEW that something was up. And I asked him and asked him and asked him if there was someone else...and he denied it to me, friends, our preacher, etc. It eventually got to the point where I thought I was losing my mind...honestly thought I was going CRAZY. "Why am I so paranoid?" I would think to myself. And my self esteem started to just be SHREDDED too, because WH was able to cite all these reasons why he could not possibly be in love with me, and I started to buy it hook line and sinker...

Once I found out the truth, I was VERY VERY hurt (of course, I do not have to tell you that), but at least I could say to myself, "I WAS RIGHT!!!!!" and I could start to deflect all of his fog bull**** about all the things that were "wrong" with me. And at least I could ACTIVELY make some choices about my future, with ALL the information, and actually, have a fighting chance at saving my marriage, where I would not have otherwise...

You have no idea the HELL that OW-H is living right now...I mean, they were happy, trying to start a family for goodness sakes...and who knows the reasons she has cited as wanting to divorce him.

He deserves to know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Everhopeful:
<strong>

As far as telling the poor husband, I don't think this is wise. The reason being, I remember vividly an incident with an old boyfriend where an irate (and immature) ex male friend of my boyfriend called me to blurt out that my boyfriend had cheated on me, because he was mad at my boyfriend for flirting with his girlfriend. I am rambling now - anyone else have experience with a "classy" disclosure method and not come out looking like a vindictive, bitter BS? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everhopeful, might I suggest you quit worrying about how you will "look" and start concerning yourself with saving your marriage? None of the reasons you gave are a good reason to pass up this opportunity. Exposure often blows the lid off the affair, hastening it's end.

Now, maybe you don't care about saving your marriage at this point. That is understandable, but at least do the decent thing and warn the OWH what is going on. That is the compassionate thing to do so he can take steps to protect himself and his children from his W and your H.

If you do have the slightest intention of saving your marriage, then you MUST not pass up this opportunity that comes with exposure. Exposure puts great pressure on the affair to end because it causes the affairees to see the affair in a new light when they are forced to rationalize it to others. They begin to see how sleazy they look to others.

The "classy" method is to act courageously and decently by picking up the phone and calling OWH. The classy method is to do this openly and honestly by identifying yourself and telling him everything you know in the most tactful, compassionate manner you can. The classy method is to offer to continue discussions in order to end the affair and save your respective families.

That is how a classy person acts: bravely and courageously doing the right thing no matter how hard instead of sitting idly by while 2 families are being destroyed. There is nothing classy about being a coward.

So, please, even if you don't care about your marriage anymore, at least do the decent thing and warn the man. And whatever you do, don't help your H keep this secret. To do so is only contributing to your own demise and setting an appalling example for your children.

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Living with you and activly seeing her at his convenience is deplorable on his part, in my opinion. It is hurtful to you and it is hurtful to the children (even if they don't know, he is disrepecting their Mother.) Won't the children wonder how Daddy got a girlfriend so soon after moving out? Children are very, very smart. Even if they don't recognize what is happening, they will know on some level. My husbands father left when he was 2 or 3. He never saw him again after age 5 and yet he mimmicked some of the behavior when he was an adult that his father had done when he was little, even though no one had ever mentioned his father doing them. They just know things no matter how good you think you are keeping things from them.

If your husband is going to act like a single man he needs to be out NOW! He won't respect you for allowing him to do what he pleases until it is convenient for him to move. He is the one leaving, it is his choice, let him be inconvenienced. He is just hurting you over and over again and it is just plain selfish and evil. If your marriage is ending, he needs to do it in a respectable manner (I know, too late) by at least either moving out or suspending his relationship with OW until he is on his own.

Cathy

I know that every situation is similar but different, and that my own experience of exposure is not universally representative but I learned SO MUCH from that experience that has affected me SPIRITUALLY not just as a mechanical intervention on the A.

I came to realise after vascillating in rayer for days and days that I have NO RIGHT to withold information that others could use to make fundamental life decisions.

This does not mean lilting through life as a tattletale, but it DOES men surrendering to prayer any evidenced information I have that could affect lives enormously.

The example I was referred to in prayer was my Mom, when she was dying of cancer. We (the family) had spent time telling everyone including Mom that she'd be OK, but this was a lie. If God worked YES she would be OK but by the mortal measure of such things, she was an old lady with a bad cancer. In agreemement with my bro & Sis we told everyone who asked that Mom was very ill, and that her time may be short. Yes, everyon was upset BUT many or most made a concerted effort to spend more time with Mom in her last months. Even my kids understood and were able to cope magnificently when she died.

As for my Mom she died surrounded by love, faith and fearlessly went to her place at God's table. We should all be blessed so.

Fact is that information helped people make informed decisions about what to do. Not telling them was not sparing them ANYTHING. At times in our lives we must face terrible and dreadful situations. These are not abberrant or wierd, they are just LIFE. The opposite of the happiness of having a new baby is the sadness of the death of a loved one. Fact is people COPE and need the information to process their response. It is not becoming AWARE that is the source of sadness it is the fact reported.

One of the hardest things I have ever done is expose to OM's GF, both initially then afterwards by sending proof. I felt I was certainly pushing my WW into OMs arms AND I was infecting OM GFs life with the misery of betrayal I was suffereng BUT, I KNEW it was the right thing to do.

And as it worked out OM GF became strong with the info, and we killed the affair together.

And finally I can be proud that whtehr I rescue our M or not, I can tell my kids in the presence of God that I did the brave thing and the right thing. My decency will NOT be a casualty of the filth of this affair.

Be blessed

Thanks for these replies. The thing is here, my H has decided he does NOT want to be married to me, regardless of what happens with OW and her marriage. He is already planning to move out, but because he leaves tommorrow for 3 weeks of business travel, we can't move forward with this, give our children decent notice with compassionate thoughtfulness, have not had time for parenting mediation to be able to tell them what will happen to them regarding visitation, etc etc etc.

Telling OW H may end the A if OW still wants to keep her marriage, and she seems ambivelant about this, according to my H. But I believe it will make no difference in the ending of our marriage and my H's plan to leave. We had several weeks of individual/couple counseling, and both counselors told me the same thing - that my H does NOT want to be married to me, the marriage is unsalvagable. What I want most is to keep things civil between soon to be ex-H and I so that we can get through the divorce with as little anamosity as possible, to minimize trauma to our kids, based on everything I have read and been counseled on.

Why do I need to tell OW's H if it will make absolutely no difference in the demise of my marriage? She confessed to her H 2 months ago that she had been seeing my H recently, had the earlier A 5 years ago, and still had feelings for my H. He threatened my H to stay away from his wife or he would tell me! My H emailed him that I already knew, so it would make no difference.
Unless he is totally stupid, he probably knows the A is going on, and he is purposely looking the other way and choosing not to see it. Its not like he is totally in the dark about this situation or thinks that his marriage is fine.

Why is it again that I should tell him under these circumstances?

I wish we could tell our kids today and H would never return home, but we can't. Its not the way we have been counseled to do this, and I am not going to kick my H out suddenly if this will make things harder on my kids - their welfare and emotional health is more important than my own suffering through another week or so of living with my H another week after he returns so that we can do this in the best way possbile for the sake of our kids. He will literally be out of the house for the next 3 weeks, and then we plan to tell the kids as soon as he returns, and he moves out a week or so after this - again, based on the advice of 2 counselors, a child psychologist, 3 books, numerous websites and my attorney. If he drags his feet about moving out, thats a different story and I will need to get a court order to force him to leave, also on the advice of my attorney.

Yes, this is hard on me, the most painful thing I have ever gone through in my entire life. I wake up each morning and am immediately hit with reality of what is happening to our marriage and family, and I am in pain all over again, every single day. Yes, I would do anything to save the marriage, but unless my H wants that too, disclosure is not going to make any difference, and may just excerbate my trying to extricate myself and my kids from this situation. And H has made it perfectly clear that he does not want me, he wants OW, and does not want me, even if things do not work out with OW.

Sorry - very depressed this morning. But thanks for replies and thanks for listening.

His claim that he doesn't want to stay married to you is right out of the WS script. They all say that, by words or actions, in cases where the affair is continued after discovery. Of these stubborn WSs, they usually don't stop saying that until exposure is implemented.

Affair Exposure 102 - Help Yourself

WAT

Everhopeful.....I can't add much as the folks who responded are some of the best with the most experience and knowledge.

I just want to add two words "moral courage". Doing what is right no matter what because it's the right thing to do.

Only being able to read this post thus far shows me you have enough courage for several folks. And the standard WS speak....sure sounds alot like what I heard a few weeks back. Almost verbatim and I quickly realized they all have the same textbook of responses.

I wish you strength with your decision.......LS

Thanks again for these thoughts. Its just dawned on me that maybe the reason I don't want to tell the OW H, is because my only (selfish)reason for doing so, would be a last ditch attempt to change my H's mind. I have pretty much given up hope for this, and am really trying to begin grieving and accept that the M is over. Both counselors told me to do this! If I expose to OW's H, then I am giving myself what I truly believe is false hope that this act may end the A AND send my H back to me. It may end the A, but in my heart, I do not believe that H will change his mind.

In otherwords, I don't want to start believing again that there is any hope moving in the direction we are going. In fact, the only real hope I think I have is if they DO play this out, and discover that this torch they have been carrying for each other for 5 years will burn out when they try to get real and the relationship sees the light of day. And if this happens, the only hope for a real reconciliation would be if H was willing to get some heavy duty counseling to try to get to the bottom of his issues, which he has steadfastly refused to do throughout our marriage.

I guess what I am saying is that the A is a sympton of a bigger disease that my H has, not the real cause of our breakup. I think he has to go out in the wide world with OW and/or by himself to finally hit bottom if there is any hope for us getting back together. So I guess I feel I have a better chance if she leaves her H for my H and they give it a try.

Maybe its the timing I am talking about here. When H moves out, if he keeps seeing OW secretly on the side and she doesn't leave her H, maybe thats when I need to tell. Afterall, things could go on forever if she can't make up her mind or decides what she needs is both her H and my soon-to-be ex-H on the side. I think this is when I would consider telling him.

I am now friends with a woman who was good friends with the OW during the first go round of the A. She called me about 3 years later and wanted to go to lunch. Spilled her guts about how guilty she felt for not telling me what was going on during the A. She is no longer friends with the OW due to the way she perceived the OW handled the A, and her attitude towards me and the kids. The thing is, I look back on what was happening and I don't think it would have made any difference if she would have told me. I suspected from the very beginning, throughout the 8 month A, but just really didn't want to know the truth. I knew something was going on, and there was only one major suspect. I just didn't want to know, plain and simple. Hoped it would go away. I actually walked around with the phone number of a private detective in my purse for several weeks before I discovered solid evidence and confronted my H who confessed. Of course, we were eventually able to reconcile that time around, and maintain what appeared to be recovery. My counselors at the time told me "too bad they didn't actually run off together - it would have never worked out and the whole infatuation would be over and your marriage back together." So maybe it is personal experience that seems to hold me in back from telling the H.
I figure its only a matter of time before they are discovered anyway, they seem to be taking a lot of chances appearing in public together.
Well, maybe I will do it anyway, but I'm just not ready quite yet.

But no one ever answered my other question about telling 3rd parties - friends that know both parties, with the indirect hope that the word will get out there, and someone else will blow the whistle on them? Last time around, this also happened after I already knew. A coworker complained to the boss and the whole company found out about it, they had to move OW to another location etc etc. Didn't seem to make any difference in the long run, did it? Even public disgrace didn't keep them away from each other for many months.

I am rambling - but thanks for letting me share these thoughts. Guess I am still working things through in many areas.

I understand that OW&#8217;s H was told before, but does he know about recent events or is he seeing what he wants to see like so many of us do and is really oblivious to the continuation of the A? Are they still living together? Is he fighting to keep his W? Are you sure that your H will end the M no matter what?

My H&#8217;s OW said that she was going to end the M (2nd) no matter what happened between them. However, given her track record with men and marriages, she won&#8217;t leave her M or H until she is sure someone else will be there. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if she&#8217;s already found someone else or if she went back to someone from before my H. During her 1st M she had two men she was after when she decided she wanted out. One couldn&#8217;t support her so she chose her current H.

I&#8217;m really not one to give advice about exposure because the OW&#8217;s H was never told in our case. In fact, her last question to my H during their last call (with me supervising) was &#8220;Can I expect any ramifications?&#8221; meaning &#8220;Is your wife going to tell my H?&#8221;

I could make a million excuses for why I didn&#8217;t do it, but deep down I know it was because I was frightened that this may actually cause her M to be over and then she would interfere with ours. Can you say &#8220;COWARD&#8221;?

I have thought about telling OW&#8217;s H, but right now I&#8217;m feeling so good about our recovery that I don&#8217;t want to spoil it by any outside interference. I guess we all have to follow our &#8220;gut instinct&#8221; and decide what&#8217;s best for us on an individual case basis.

Good luck with the tough decision - BT

Hi Everhopeful!

One thought that struck me from reading your posts was that maybe your H is telling you he wants out of the M, wants sex with others, doesn't want to be faithful to you, wants a younger W because of the A/OW not regardless of A/OW.

I don't think a WS that has decided to leave his M actually does it thinking that the R with an OP may not work out. I'm sure they think it is going to work out.

If I remember your previous posts correctly, I thought you said that you were surprised that this came up after 5 (?) years of strong recovery and that when your H ran into the OW again he was ready to move out to be with her. Right then.

Is it possible he has come up with the MLC type issues, wants younger W, wants to play the field, as a cover for ending your M to be with the OW? That it's all because of the OW, not necessarily 'other issues'.

It just seems odd to me that he says all that stuff but conveniently ends up with the OW again and plans a future date to move out. Is it to make himself (and OW) look better? Like your H is not leaving his M for an OW?

If that's the case, maybe exposure is a step you need to take.

Just a thought.

Take care.

sss

Everhopeful,

I do not believe that you have given up hope that your marriage cannot be saved and I think that this is the reason that you do not expose to OW's H. I feel that you are afraid that it may "burn your last bridge". I can truly emphasize with this because I think this is why most BS's hesitate at first to expose the A. It is a very common fear.

I did some research in some of your previous posts, even the ones from 2000.

From what I've read about your WH's behaviour, I think that you are probably close to 100% correct when you say that maybe it is time for him to be with OW all the time to see the light of the day. He's had this fantasy now for many many years and it continues to be a fantasy. OW seems to be a party-girl, but then she's also shown that she has interests in settling down (wanting to have a baby with her current husband) - after all she's in her mid-thirties, too.

This may actually help you or play in your favor, especially since your WH is adament of not wanting to settle down, not be monogamous etc. God only knows what kind of things she is promising him, but will she be able to follow through on her promises to him??? Letting her meet all of his needs may be your ticket to recovery of your marriage. Your counselor is right when he said that too bad he didn't run off with her the first time they started the A. He may have never returned... This is what I mean by him living in a long-term fantasy.

Now, back to exposure to OW's H. Whether or not this will end their affair or not, I think it is necessary to expose to OW's H. You do not have to be spiteful and mean, just call and tell him; you do not have to go into the gory details, but just enough to let him know what is happening. Your WH will be angry, yes, and he is probably still going to leave, but believe me, it will make them continuing their A in their happy go-lucky way very difficult.

Regarding involving a third party, I think this is a very bad idea. You should not get outside people involved in your marital issues because I feel that it is bad taste. Why would you want someone else to do your dirty deed. Be a classy lady and pick up the phone and call the husband and let it be the end of it. No need to get other's involved. It only creates gossipp and it could even impact your marital recovery should it ever happen. You will come across like a bitter, vengeful betrayed wife if you let someone else do the dirty work.

In the end, no matter what happens, you will want your husband to remember you as a classy and strong lady.

Kati

Everhopeful,

I do not believe that you have given up hope that your marriage cannot be saved and I think that this is the reason that you do not expose to OW's H. I feel that you are afraid that it may "burn your last bridge". I can truly emphasize with this because I think this is why most BS's hesitate at first to expose the A. It is a very common fear.

I did some research in some of your previous posts, even the ones from 2000.

From what I've read about your WH's behaviour, I think that you are probably close to 100% correct when you say that maybe it is time for him to be with OW all the time to see the light of the day. He's had this fantasy now for many many years and it continues to be a fantasy. OW seems to be a party-girl, but then she's also shown that she has interests in settling down (wanting to have a baby with her current husband) - after all she's in her mid-thirties, too.

This may actually help you or play in your favor, especially since your WH is adament of not wanting to settle down, not be monogamous etc. God only knows what kind of things she is promising him, but will she be able to follow through on her promises to him??? Letting her meet all of his needs may be your ticket to recovery of your marriage. Your counselor is right when he said that too bad he didn't run off with her the first time they started the A. He may have never returned... This is what I mean by him living in a long-term fantasy.

Now, back to exposure to OW's H. Whether or not this will end their affair or not, I think it is necessary to expose to OW's H. You do not have to be spiteful and mean, just call and tell him; you do not have to go into the gory details, but just enough to let him know what is happening. Your WH will be angry, yes, and he is probably still going to leave, but believe me, it will make them continuing their A in their happy go-lucky way very difficult.

Regarding involving a third party, I think this is a very bad idea. You should not get outside people involved in your marital issues because I feel that it is bad taste. Why would you want someone else to do your dirty deed. Be a classy lady and pick up the phone and call the husband and let it be the end of it. No need to get other's involved. It only creates gossipp and it could even impact your marital recovery should it ever happen. You will come across like a bitter, vengeful betrayed wife if you let someone else do the dirty work.

In the end, no matter what happens, you will want your husband to remember you as a classy and strong lady.

Kati

All of these are good solid points. A few answers:

Barelytogether - OW cheated on her H (then live-in boyfriend) with my H during the first A. She moved out thinking H was going to move out as well, but he didn't. She got back with her boyfriend and married him 2 years later. This was two years ago. Remember that before she got married, she moved from another suburb and bought a house 4 blocks from us. My H has told me that she will not leave her H unless my H is a sure thing, and he as also told me that he is willing to be the sure thing and will wait for her to do this. According to my H, her H doesn't know, OW is sure he doesn't know. They are still living together. I also do believe that my H does not want to be married to me.

Stillsosad - H was ready to run off with OW two weeks into their new relationship, and was upset with her for wanting to stay with her H. I think he tried to write her off, and was sincere about wanting to leave anyway and focused on the non-monogamous and single life issues. Then she changed her mind and starting talking bout "maybe she WOULD leave her H but only if my H moved out and wanted her to move in. Yes, in the eyes of society, she/they didn't want it to look like my H left me for her. According to our counselor, he wants a younger woman to spend the rest of his life with, and OW is the surest candidate. When he was giving me the non-monagamy line, I pointed out to him that he loves being taken care of, needs someone he can depend on. So initially she was the excuse to leave, when she wouldn't, non-monagamy was the excuse to leave, then she came on strong that she would be willing to leave, and the plan has come full circle. I have definitely seen their relationship excelerate since this all started the last 2 months. The two issues for them seem to be 1)her wanting a baby and which of the two men can make this happen (more to come on that issue below) and 2) making it look like H is not leaving his wife and kids for her.

Kati - I don't think its being afraid of "burning bridges". What I am most afraid of is this turning our civilized breakup and divorce negotiations ugly, which will be more painful for me, our kids and our pocketbooks. He has already burnt the bridges. He is very blunt about wanting to spend the rest of his life with OW and if she doesn't leave her H, then another younger woman. Unfortunately the age thing has always bothered him, you know when you can sense someone is never completely comfortable when you are out in public or on a date? This doesn't mean we weren't getting along great privately, or having great family times. Lots of younger women come on to my H right in front of me without him instigating anything, and this is starting to get to his ego. My H and I never intended to get married when we first started seeing each other. He told me point blank he would never marry me because I was too old! Then I got pregnant. I never pushed him or gave him an ultimatim. It was his idea to get married when our son was a year old. When he wanted to have another baby I figured we were on the home stretch. He looks very young for his age - and I am starting to show mine, even though I still look 10 years younger than I am. But I AM starting to age, and he isn't. Shallow yes, but fact of the matter is, he is hung up on his image and I catch him looking at my wrinkles, (not my imagination, he actually pushes my skin together to accentuate the lack of suppleness), plays with the veins on my hands, pokes at my underarm sag, pokes at my saggy butt, points out a few gray hairs. Sorry for being so direct, but this is fact, sad but true. This is his big chance to break away and hook up with a younger, more appropriate woman, whether its OW or someone new.

But then again he may be using the age thing as its the one thing I can't change. He says the main reason he wants OW more than me and thinks he will be happier with her is totally the age thing, but I think its more than that. Its that fantasy that she is the perfect woman for him and vice versa. Remember that the biggest draw to OW has always been that she insisted that he is absolutely her perfect match, their love only comes once in a lifetime, they are meant to be, she will never love another man the way she loves my H etc etc. One of those "I will go Down with this Ship" deals, if you know that song. She married her H cause he was second best and my H was unavailable. She wanted to have kids but hasn't been able to get pregnant. H told me last night he is considered trying to reverse his vasectomy if that is what she wants. What does that tell you? And H says he thinks he won't have a problem being monogamous with her. Being with his soul mate will curb those desires.

Finally, I should clarify what I mean by a third party. I have no bitterness in my tone as I tell friends that I am sorry we are breaking up, that it is his decision. I may mention with sadness, but not spite or bitterness that there is another woman in the picture, but no dirty details except to my 2 closest friends. Once our breakup becomes public knowledge, most people that know us will know this is not my idea and that my H is the one that wanted out. Many people that know us know about the first A, and they probably won't be surprised about OW being back in the picture.

I would never bad mouth her or my H to anyone. If I mention to not so close friends that she is in the picture, I guess I am thinking that one way or another, the rumor mill will start cranking and her H will hear about it. If she leaves her H to be with my H, everyone will know the truth anyway. If her H finds out before she leaves, he will probably kick her out and just hasten their coming together. Maybe she will decide to stay with her H, and leave my H to do whatever he decides to do. Maybe she will get pregnant by her H after all, she has only been trying 2 months after she had the operation to facilitate this event. I guess if she decides to stay with her H, and breaks things off with my H, it might be an advantage that her H never found out about it.

She has been with this guy for 6 years now, and evidently was able to stay settled down for 2, so I guess that proves that their marriage hasn't been all that bad. Her deal was that she wanted my H more, but wanted a baby and my H couldn't give her one, so she settled for her H. Now that she thinks she can't get pregnant - she isn't sure if she wants her H afterall and is going back after mine, who is obviously willing.

It is funny that at first (a week ago) H tells me she is considering giving up her dream of having a baby to be with my H, and last night, he tells me they have discussed my H getting this reverse operation. So she still wants a baby, and my H is saying maybe he IS willing to try this, to have another child if she is willing to leave your H.

Anyway, I have not yet heard that my H is uncertain if she is Ms. Right. The opposite, that she is Ms Right, and only that he is uncertain that she will leave her H.

I think I lost track of the point I was trying to make, but I guess I need to keep posting - sort of like a journal for me, so don't mind me for continuing to ramble. Its kind of like - live to post and post to live. It keeps me half sane in an insane situation. More later.

EH,

My thought for you is to expose, to everyone. Not in a mean vengeful way that hurts him, you, or your children; but in a way that explains
to those who love you and your family WHY your family is breaking up.

Your children are going to need all the love, and encouragement that they can get. And honestly what your husband is doing is really NOT OK.

I don't know how you're going to be able to explain to your children why he is leaving without telling them the truth. And I do think it's more about the OW than age. I think he's just found that using age is something you can't dispute and it's given his affair a "cover".

So I say, expose, expose, expose. Let a little light into his fantasy, open the closet door and let in the fresh air of reality.

I think the 3 weeks he is gone is a geat time to break the news to everyone. What he has done is UGLY, and there's no disguising it to those who love you. Anything else is enabling his affair.

JMHO! CSue

<small>[ September 16, 2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Everhopeful:
<strong> Thanks for these replies. The thing is here, my H has decided he does NOT want to be married to me, regardless of what happens with OW and her marriage. He is already planning to move out, but because he leaves tommorrow for 3 weeks of business travel, we can't move forward with this, give our children decent notice with compassionate thoughtfulness, have not had time for parenting mediation to be able to tell them what will happen to them regarding visitation, etc etc etc.

Telling OW H may end the A if OW still wants to keep her marriage, and she seems ambivelant about this, according to my H. But I believe it will make no difference in the ending of our marriage and my H's plan to leave. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But see, we don't believe your H knows what he wants. EVERY WS says they want to end the marriage and would do it even if it weren't for the OP. That is fogtalk. They sing a different story entirely when they are over the addiction. And the addiction won't end until the affair ends.

Ever, you are just throwing in the towel way too soon. You are tossing your marriage aside based on what? FOGTALK! Please recognize it for what it is and quit giving it so much weight.

You still have numerous opportunities here to save your marriage if you want to.

And I still maintain, even if she does not care to try and save her marriage at this point (something we BS's can all relate to), what if OW-H DOES????? What if he wants to fight for HIS marriage? He does not have all the ammunition HE needs to give HIS marriage the shot he deserves.

I almost wish that you would give me his phone number so I could tell him.

I think he deserves the same chance you have had...to bust his @ss fighting for his future, his marriage, and his part of this life he is trying to build with HIS wife, with all the information he needs, and the opportunity to make the choices he wants.

If you don't care about the marriage anymore, WHY NOT LET HIM CARE ABOUT HIS MARRIAGE??? If you are convinced your H is leaving anyway, fine, let him leave. If you are convinced OW will join him, at least OW-H can have something to say about that now, and have a fighting chance to save his marriage now, with all the facts...he deserves that.

You go under the premise that he will know eventually...or he should know if he was not in denial about the problems he may or may not know about in his marriage (remember, what you do know of OW and her H is what your WH told you, which is more than likely, LIES).

Each day the affair goes on uninterrupted, the percentages of the marriage being lost increase. He deserves to know NOW, so he can have a fighting chance...