Talked to a female friend of mine from work yesterday who used to hang out with my WxW. I guess they went out dancing on a girls night a little over a year ago. My WxW always told me that when she would go out she would never dance with other guys and would tell them that she was married right away. Well, I guess that she danced with some guy like full on grinding from behind and him like grabbing her a$$ and stomach etc. SHe did not tell this guy that she was married and let him believe that she was single. She did this in front of two of my female co-workers. I would say that was a bad sign. Maybe it is just when she drinks or something. I don't know, but she has been deceptive with me for a long time. It just makes me wonder what else she has done when going out without me.

My co-worker was telling me that I should just move on and not bother with her if she tries to reconcile because she is a liar. I am starting to feel the same way. I feel like I should just forget about her and be done.

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: juke1225 ]</small>

juke, I'm sorry that learning about this hurts. Of course it does, but I'm sorry.

Only you can decide if this is something you would be able to forgive or not. It is not unforgivable..but it *is* something to think about when you decide if YOU would want to reconcile. Or maybe it can help you move on.

Curious..since you're divorced (do you know if you are for sure, btw?)..is this stuff you still want to hear about? Your wife's past and current behavoir? If not--you *do* have the perfect "out" and can explain to anyone who tried to talk to you about her that you do not wish to hear about your wife. Sure, hearing bad stuff might help you to get over her, but it has the potential to make you hurt and angry and those aren't things you want to hold onto.

Juke -

That was probably hard to hear, but after a split, lots of people start telling you all kinds of stuff. If they were truly friends, they would have told you when it happened. I would ignore it and make your own decisions.

Also please consider that they may be interested in you.

Maddyk- I can forgive, but why set myself up with someone who can't hack 2 years of marriage without wondering. I mean that is pathetic.

Yeah, I am divorced. I don't mind hearing the stuff anymore. I really feel nothing at this point. It did not upset me to hear. It just made things click more in my head of what kind of person she truly is. I just realize now that what I thought my wife was and what she really is are two different things. I was married to a phony. In love with an imaginary person etc.

juke:

She's only 23. She was only 22 when this "incident" allegedly happened. She's also very attractive.

These are NOT excuses for her behavior, just possible explanations. I believe that attractive young women have a lot of pressure put on them by "horn dog" males. Like the song "Girls just want to have fun," which was parodied by "Boys just want to have sex". Unfortunately, girls seeking fun in bars when they're Md, particularly when they pretend not to be, are setting themselves up.

I always hated hearing stuff like "you're to young to be M'd" because we got M'd when my W was 21 and I was 22, and I think we did pretty well. But she was a very attractive 21-yr old and people were always "after" her. She didn't dance in bars, though.

But people do really need to be mature in a lot of ways before they're able to be in committed relationships. Sadly, even "once mature" people can have As. Then, it's up to them what their integrity means to them and how much effort they want to put into restoring it, if it's important to them at all, that is.

For now, I'd continue to be civil with your xW, but let her do her own growing up. It might be useful to know about things like this from her past, but you're not M'd anymore, and it's not really relevant unless you want to have another R with her down the road.

Recovery is definitely an individual process now (not that it ever wasn't). I wouldn't "forget". You don't WANT to forget your past experiences, you want 2 learn from them.

Just tell your friends you don't want to forget, you want to gain a new perspective so you can look toward a bright, lucid future.

-Qfwfq (aka 2long)

juke,
ok, now this is just my opinion and what I know from my own personal experience.

I think it is probably cause for concern for any H who'd W goes out dancing, to clubs etc without them, even if it is w/the girls.

This is why - I feel this is pretty much what you can EXPECT to be going on:

1. *Most* guys in clubs do not care either way if a girl is married or not. I know this from personal experience. (Whether they'd sleep w/her, who's to say, that's not the issue here. But they certainly will dance - no holds barred.)

2. Most girls who go to clubs will not just up front go, "Oh hey, just so you know, I'm married." Especially not if they are getting or hoping to get free drinks from the guys. Some guys don't seem to care and would buy you drinks anyway, but I guess some feel that they are wasting $ - not a good investment, if you know what I mean...

3. Pretty much almost any dancing that goes on in clubs is inapprpriate for a married person to be doing w/someone else. Full on grindin, like you mentioned, has become the norm, and even if you not doing that, there is still inapprpriate contact going on. And in my experiencemost guys hands "wander", some worse than others. Sounds like she wasn't worried about keeping that under control.

4. When drinking is involved, all this stuff is almost guarunteed to happen, IMO.

Bottom line, your co-worker is most definitely telling the truth, and maybe you were just a tad naive for not suspecting this in the first place.
In the future, I'd suggest setting up boundaries in which you and your SO only visit places like that together.

PS- I'm sorry you had to come to this realization now, I know it hurts when it seems like the betrayals just keep coming over and over...

Believer- I know. I told her that I wish she would have told me back then. She said she would never do that because she would be butting her head into other people's business. She probably didn't want to face my wife's wrath either. It seems that women don't like to "tell on" other women. This co- worker is not the only female friend to tell me after the fact. I have guy friends who said things to me right after they happened. Is there some female code to cover for other women or what?

OK, I am sorry for all the typos. I swear, I am actually a really good speller!!! I just type fast and forget to proof read!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Yes, I would think someone would be reluctant to "tell on" their friend, girl or guy. Plus, who knows, those girls may have been doing similar things, so maybe they just didn't want to get anything started...

Qfwfq - She would wear her ring, but not say, "Hey I am married" to anyone. I understand that most guys don't give a care about that so they will go after a woman regardless. She is pretty and guys would always want her so I guess if I had women all over me when I went out it would be hard to resist for me too.

Yeah, We heard the u two are so young to be married crap all the time. People saying that to my xW didn't help her at all.

Juke,

I tended bar for 10 years in all different kinds of clubs, and this is the atmosphere of that scene. People seem to lose all sense of their reality with the music, the lights, the alcohol. People get caught up in it. Not very many go to clubs without their mate and acts married, this is just the nature of the beast.

I agree with 2long regarding the young girls getting caught up in it.

I had fun in the club life during my college years but desparately hope my daughter never goes through the "clubbing" phase.

On another note Juke -
I am sorry about your divorce, but you are so young and who knows what is around the corner for you. Wonderful things I am sure. Please stay here and offer support to others who will be going through what you have gone through, and survived. You are needed here guy, and it seems once divorced most leave and we don't want you to leave, however we do want you to have a full life so don't be here too much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Weaver- I Will keep you all posted on what's going on in my recovery and try to help newbees out. I am not going anywhere! Thanks for your help and all others from this sight! This has helped me more than anything and I think without it I would be mentally insane!

Juke,

Ok an OLD Guy checking in here. I have read and followed your story. And I will tell you that things have NOT changed. When I was your age, I was single and the bar scene was hopping. Girls that came to bars came to be picked up, danced with, kissed, ... It is the way of things. Guys that go to bars are after the girls. Even that Gray Beard 2L, knows this . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But, here is a piece of advice for you. Don't bother with a woman that thinks she NEEDS a night out with the "girls" at a bar. If you were a woman I would give you the same advice about a guy needing a night out with the "boys", especially if it is at a bar.

Here is why I offered this advice. When in my 20's I dated alot, many many girls, even engaged to one, but I realized that in most cases I still enjoyed being out with the "boys" more. I took that as a clue to NOT settle down with any of these women. I realized I had no business marrying a woman if I would rather be with the "guys" most of the time or even for recreation.

When I found a woman I enjoyed being with MORE than the "guys", I married her. It took until I was in my 30's.

My point, I needed to find the right girl, but more importantly I NEEDED to grow up.

Juke, if you use no other measure with the next serious woman in your life, consider that one. She needs to be "grown up". Your xW was/is not grown up yet. It is really ashame because clearly you were ready for a serious relationship and marriage and loved her very much.

She was not evil, she is a child. You were far more mature and ready for what a marriage required. I am sorry it has come to this, but use it as a learning experience to make your next serious relationship better than this one was. You will do fine.

God Bless,

JL

JL:

My dad laughed for a couple of years as my beard started turning gray when I was about 40. He's 87 now, and his hair is STILL brown (but graying at the edges more).

He was able to laugh, because his beard not only wasn't gray at the time, it wasn't a beard! He didn't start growing it until some years later, and it came in gray when he did. So, I got the last laugh... ...I think!

-Qfwfq (aka 2long)