So she called, and check out this power struggle talk:

"I'm still planning on coming over tomorrow."
"Okay. About what time?"
"Uh, around 1 or 2."
"Okay."

That's pretty much the convo.

How to be, how to be. I don't know whether I should be surly, cheerful, sad, happy, smart, dumb, or naked.

I guess cheerful and kind, but come on! She's removing most of herself from my life here.

I think plan A fatigue is starting to make me confused. Weaver's gonna kill me for letting her come over here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Please advise. Thanks,

GC

I'm not going to even pretend to have advice to give you. I just wanted to tell you to do be strong. We will be thinking about you tomorrow and expect an update!

When I went through this ordeal, I was:

Confident, cheerful, up-beat, acted-like-I-had-it-all-together

It got his attention! He didn't understand. He expected to find a "broken, bitter, unhappy, nasty, ugly" person.

Yeah, well. GUESS WHAT??? I still had a life to live!

THAT"s how I think you should appear.

Good luck. I'll be waiting to hear how it went.

God Bless,

I assume you are in Plan A, no?

So, how did you behave when you two were dating, because I'd go with THAT behavior.

Jo

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

GC,

After your last conversation with her I am sure she is not looking forward to any R talk. Be cool but I know you will do well.

Best of luck

I vote you go with Lupolady. She's BTDT.

Remember, this isn't about her (the sparrow)now. We, or you, or any of us, can't control what she does. If she wants to self destruct, she can make that choice.

However, you can choose to be be a man, the kind you want to be in your dreams. The one who does things the right way - no matter what others do, he does things the right way.

I think you did well in that last conversation, even though you feel you may not have been perfect, I think you did well.

After watching you, I think you will do well this time too. I trust you.

Prepare as best you can, get some sleep, and don't worry about it.

SS

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

One real question:

Should I help her?

GC

Yes Gray -

By all means, if you are going to be there when she comes, help her. You will just look and feel like a jerk if you don't.


How to be, how to be. I don't know whether I should be surly, cheerful, sad, happy, smart, dumb, or naked.

Had to laugh when I read this -

I would pay big bucks to see the look on sparrow's face if you were sitting there on the couch buck naked when she walked in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Bucknaked with your guitar.

Play.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nobody knows the trouble I've seen ....
Nobody knows my sorrooooowww.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

GC,

The kids haven’t woken up yet so I have a little Binder time. Cuppajoe and the paper in a quiet house…a little slice of heaven.

Anyways I saw your post. You have good instincts and a lot of wise folks pay attention to your threads so I’m not about to suggest I have the definitive answer. I will relate my WW’s move and what occurred here on moving day.

I stayed at work. She had her friends and family move her stuff out and she claims it was “the worst day of her life”. She still went through with it and is still gone as you know. She kept wanting to come back over the next several weeks to get more stuff. By this time I was still in plan A, but wanted her to feel the significance of her decision, so I moved the rest of her stuff to the garage. We have children however, which maintains a form of contact and their discomfort with this arrangement may bring her around eventually.

You don’t have that commonality to tweak her maternal instincts. Given that, I still believe a passive role is the way to go, without denying sporadic assistance if requested or needed. Don’t hover. Give the impression of being distracted, like you’re making plans to do something/go somewhere. Keep the atmosphere warm. Nice music playing. Maybe give her the wedding tape. Make something for lunch you both can share. Buy something new so she is reminded of the financial chaos she’s about to enter into. Do you have the dog yet? Do you have a picture of it? Let her see the safe harbour she is leaving as she gets into the barrel to try her attempt at the falls.

I gave no real restrictions to my WW’s claim to goods and for the most part she did not clean me out, but I do feel that family items i.e. photo albums, should stay in the family home.

As you want to maintain some form of contact, maybe there are a few little things that could be misplaced that she may overlook; things that you could get in touch with her about afterwards if she doesn’t call about them at a later date.

I’m sure others will chime in here. Best of luck GC. It’s going to be a tough day.

Kids are up now. Time to cook up a big ole Sat. morning breakfast filled with lots of saturated fats and whatnot.

Binder, that was so helpful. I'm a little scattered, trying to clean house and all. Only a couple of hours 'fore she gets here.

I'm gonna get groceries and make sandwiches. That's a great idea.

Most of her stuff is in boxes in the garage. A ton of stuff. Little doo-dads she might want are still here and there, but not many.

Don't know if I'll give her the wedding video. I guess I will.

Oh, and Matilda is here. She's very sweet, and rarely barks. She loves everybody (though she's kind of a bully with very small children). Her only failing is that she follows me EVERYWHERE.

The sparrow is gonna sh*t when she sees this pretty little dog.

GC

Gray -

Sparrow cannot possibly last with OM. It just ain't gonna happen. So I would do the best I could to be yourself - the one she fell in love with.

Don't be clingy, but helpful. Don't discuss relationship. Relax.

Thanks everybody. I'm way nervous. She should be here any time now...

GC

Just breath, Gray. You will do just fine. Be strong ... be the lighthouse.

We're all thinking about you.

Jo

GC,

Breathe.... in/out, deep cleansing breathes but no more than 4. Don't want you to hyperventilate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now go act like yourself..... the healthier and better GC that we have come to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

U w/b fine. Stop shivering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

It didn't go very well. I tried to be bright and cheerful.

She brought her cousin, then her cousin's husband showed up, then her sister showed up. They hardly talked to me. They didn't know what to say.

Sparrow went for the china and we got into an argument again. We sat down to talk about it. I asked, "Are you sure you want to talk about this particular thing?" She did, so we duked it out for a few minutes. No yelling, but we both said a few not perfect things. I said some good things. I also said, "The only person you've made this easier on doing it the way you have is yourself." She said, "I don't want to be married to you any more." Some other stuff. Eventually she said, "This conversation is over."

She started to say, I want this, I want that. I said I was going to have to think about those things. She got upset again, and I said something very bad.

A few minutes later I apologized for what I'd said. She said, "No, you're right."

A little bit later she was in the house and came out of the bathroom crying. I saw how much pain was in her eyes, started to cry, and gave her a hug. She stayed for a few seconds, then pulled away. She barely put her hands on me.

She said, "At least you get to feel good about yourself." I said, "So could you." She said, "No. I can't."

The packing up continued a while. Eventually, everybody took off.

I think it's really over. She doesn't want me, and she can't see any way to being redeemed. The only way is to come back to me, and she can't do it. Doesn't want to do it.

GC

I'm sorry Gray.

You are young, good-looking, funny, bright with sooo much to give.

All I can say is you will find love again, maybe with sparrow maybe with someone else. But she is going to be one very lucky young woman.

Go out tonight if you are not playing and have some fun.

I hope tonight does not get you down too much Gray. Wish Cerri's party was tonight as it would do you a world of good.

I can't make it to her bon-fire this time, but plan on making one in the spring if she has another as I am not so very far away from there.

Thank you, weaver. You made me feel a whole lot better.

I'm actually going to have coffee with car4love in a little while. I like her; she's a good friend now (even though if either WS returns that friendship will end). But I'd really rather not swim in this muck any more today. She's having a big lunch with OM next week and wants to talk about it. And I am still going to meet her. We usually wind up feeling a little better after we vent for a while.

There is an upside to the horror that was this afternoon. The lines of communication are open. I'm going to call sparrow tonight and talk just for a minute. I have to get out of R talk every time we communicate. I'm going to keep trying.

Also, as she was leaving, I said, "Hey, I have something for you. I ran and got the video, held it out to her, and said, "It isn't edited or anything, but here's the wedding video." She was too surprised to refuse it. She took it, sort of robotically said, "Thank you," and left.

GC

Gray -

You are too young and hot to go through all of this crap. Sparrow and Car4love's WH will never stay together. Never.

It is none of my business, and don't answer if you feel uncomfortable. But why didn't you and Sparrow have any kids?

Please check out the following. I have been posting it all day.


Loving detachment is a healthy huge step in the right direction. What is says is "I may have been blind and blindsided, but now I see clearly what was obscured in the affair fog. I not only was involved in a catastrophe of unimaginable horror, but survived it.

But merely surviving is not good enough, for I refuse to be victimized and/or a bystander in my life any longer. I deserve to thrive in my life, so I will make the choices that will allow me the best opportunities to do that.

I will take each day as it comes, do the best I can in each moment with one foot firmly in the present and one foot heading for a great future. Every day I will do what I can when I can to make sure that happens, moment to moment.

I am not willing to handcuff someone to me to travel that life journey with me. If they choose to do so voluntarily, I expect the Golden Rule to be one of our main operating principles. I will not accept someone I am in a primary relationship with to make unilateral decisions that affect me.

I will not accept that I give or get less than I would want for myself or any loved one. The greatest gift one soul can give another is the one of themself, the gift of loving and being loved. I will not give or treat that privilege lighty when offered to me. It is too valuable, priceless because it is special and unique, to give or get yet waste it by not recognizing and acting on its full potential as well as its true reality.

Some may love with all they've got, but it may not be enough to be a healthy relationship. Some may love "too much" which is just as damaging in its own way.

I will focus on loving detachment in order for my partner and myself to have the best environment in which to grow and live in as healthy and successful manner as we deserve and need. It is not an option, it is a daily necessity.

I will love and be loved with the awareness that love is a decision and a privilege, not a cage of any type for either of us.

Hey Believer - Please check out the following. I have been posting it all day.

And I have been reading it all day. Finally cut and pasted to my notebook. I absolutely love it, in fact I feel like sending it to ex, as he really, really needs to read it, the dork <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Seriously, thank you Believer.

Sorry for threadjack.