Well, this has been an awful week. I cannot imagine going through something more horrific.

Tuesday I talked with Dr. Steve and we decided that after OW, WS, and IL’s get the Plan B ltr, it may be beneficial to speak to OW, as I know what she is going through 1st hand. She has probably been smoozed this past week buying all his “I’m so sorry I did this to you c..p” that I would be talking to a brick wall. I have time on my side, to decide what to do. I now have a phone number and a partial address. I also know where she works, but I am hesitant to barge in on her there, as she to is a victim.

Thursday, I spoke with a psychologist JUST FOR ME. She was aghast at the things he is/was doing. He really is one sick puppy, underneath his intelligent, caring, spiritual mask. She has suggested that I find wife #1, as I am wife#2 and pick her brain a bit. I truly feel for the very first time that I do owe her an apology. I was NOT the OW by my own choice. I did not even know, until after I had fallen so deeply in love with him. I am pretty sure that this is the case now for OW. I have since found out through MIL that he had previous affairs on wife #1. They ARE divorced of course, just after facing bankruptcy together … I’ve been digging.

My question to you would be: “Is it fair of me to ask her to re-live her past?” Or is that selfish on my part? Your thoughts on contacting ex-wife?

This evening I attended a “celebrate recovery’ event. I am hoping to find my spot within this wonderful group.

I go to the lawyer on Monday to find out legally ‘where I stand’, so I am busy gathering information for them. Any one have any advice on exactly what to take with me?

With the lord by my side, things will begin to make sense for the first time in a very long time.

BTW: BIL looked in the attic this morning, either what ever was there is gone or it is very well hidden under the masses of blown in insulation. Darn. He DEFINITELY had something up there!

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: infaith ]</small>

My 2 cents:

I wouldn't talk to the ex. She most likely went through enough pain during her D. And while I do understand your desire to make things right now and apologize, my thought it that it is probably better to just apologize to God and ask for his forgiveness and know you have it, but to not reopen wounds with OW.

My STBX-WH is in affair #2 right now. But he had affair #1 12 years ago. I am past it. But if that OW reappeared, even if it were to tell me she were sorry for it all, I think I'd rather just not see her at all.

What's in the past is in the past and probably best left there.

LL

Well, my "fantasy" for this is that you, OW and the ex-wife all get together and have a little chat. Wouldn't that be illuminating for all.

But seriously, I think you may have something. It may be a scar that the ex-W has long stopped thinking about.

I know for me, I have been divorced for 3 years and I'm just starting to not think about my ex-H or the whole horrible situation he put me through. By my calculations, your H's ex-W is at her 7 year mark. Most likely she rarely, if ever, thinks about it much anymore.

Love,
Jo

That, no doubt would be the best for OW and myself. As for wife #1 - doubtful. I really don't want to extend this hurt on anyfurther out than need be. It is just awful.

I have located a storage reciept paid up to 8/9/04. He is always late on payment, so I wonder if I went to the office and paid for the next couple of months, perhaps they would replace my 'lost' key?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by infaith:
I have since found out through MIL that he had previous affairs on wife #1.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That poor woman [ex-W].

You remember we talked about how the MIL said the ex-W did some unstable things ... well, I can imagine, from my experience with having to deal with a serial cheater, that she was only trying to deal with her H's cheating ways. He most likely was manipulating her just as he has you, which resulted in causing THAT riff between her and her in-laws at the time.

Sound familiar, TJ?

Jo

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by infaith:
I have located a storage reciept paid up to 8/9/04. He is always late on payment, so I wonder if I went to the office and paid for the next couple of months, perhaps they would replace my 'lost' key?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like it, and think it's worth a try. If you have the initial storage contract too, bring that along with you to lend more credibility to your story.

Lv,
Jo

OW #1 apologized to me 8 years after her affair with my H which resulted in an OC. It was during my H's second affair with OW #2, who he also fathered an OC with.

OW #1 said to me "If I would have known you, I would have never had an affair with your husband."

Her apology act, in of itself, was meaningful to me. But the idea she said she would have had to know someone to not have an affair with their husband eclipsed the entire apology.

To me it was just more rationalization. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jo

Another thought. A past potential client is down at the bar today. She did not become a client as H convinced me she would be nothing but trouble. I have gone in a couple of times and told H of my visits. He warned me I was just asking for trouble. She has stated in the past, if I ever wanted to talk, to come in anytime. Sister has called and she is there.

I think she may be able to fill me in on a number of areas. I could feel out the sitch and have her get a message to OW that I truly would like to chat with her. H really needs help.

Jo, I truly am not upset with her, as I know 1st hand how convincing he can be. I would however, like more information about the details of my reality for the past 2 + years.

Any one have a yeah or nay???

Thanks for the advice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by infaith:
I think she may be able to fill me in on a number of areas. I could feel out the sitch and have her get a message to OW that I truly would like to chat with her. H really needs help.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think talking with the OW is def a thing you should do. But as far as that friend in the bar -- you just never know people's agenda's. You'd need to be fully aware that she could likely be from the OW's/WH's camp and view you as an enemy, based on his lies. I know your intentions are to go on a fact-finding mission, but please beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

Plan B also helps remove you from all the unnecessary drama to move to healing. Talking to those outsiders has a potential to circumvent that. JMHO of course.

As far as your H needing help, not your responsibility. Not even your responsibility to tell the current-OW to help him get help.

If he doesn't seek it entirely on his own steam, it's all for not.

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Someone your H doesn't want you to talk to??? Sounds like the PERFECT person for you to spend a little while with. Yes, be cautious... but I bet she's got things to say that your H doesn't want you to know.

I'd contact the ex-W, too. Yes, with an apology -- and with a very oblique "if you ever want to talk, I'd be happy to" sort of a note. You and she may well be allies at this point. I'm sure you'll both find it odd, but it may be true nonetheless.

Well, I have been ignoring my instincts for a very long time. I woke up thinking of this concept, I spent all morning thinking of it, my sister called to see if the girl in question was at work; she was and I was then convinced to go see her. I visited with a friend over lunch and just went for it.

I was very cautious knowing it could go either way. I could tell she knew from the moment she recognized me. She has validated many of my thoughts on my situation and is in agreement with me. She and co-worker have mentioned that things just weren’t right with the situation to the OW. They are quite frightened for OW. Quite frankly, I am too, but now it is no longer on my conscience. I have told woman in bar that OW can call me if she would like, or not. If she does I will talk with her, as I was her 8 years ago.

H has pulled OW from the bar where she has worked for many years. He is in the process of trying to move her once again from the apartment they moved into together in March. (Yes, while he was still happily married to me, as far as I knew. Man watch out for the traveling man!) (I am sorry, some of the traveling men are probably just fine); apparently he has convinced her to go from working 5 – 6 days down to 1 night and as recent as last week – not work there at all. I think the walls are closing in on him. No one seems to know just where he wants to move her, but my bet says it is out of state. I told them to just try to convince her to at least stay put, where she is for a while. He had moved me a couple of hours away from my friends, back 8 years ago, convincing me they were a bad influence. He is very persuasive and intelligent.

Still considering contact ex-w. I would be very gentle and just let her know that she could contact me IF she chose to. I would not call her twice. I have many other things that take priority over that decision the next few days.

HE also visited our friends today, the ones he separated us from back in November. He cried and admitted that he was having an A and told them that I had emptied his bank account! My friends spent about 10 minutes with him and excused themselves, as they had company coming for dinner…ME!!

I also had an angel come by. A woman from work came by with several bags of groceries. Made us both salads and just chatted with me for a couple of hours today. I also received a check in the mail for our flex plan! Yeah I can actually pay the HH bills! It is a good day.

I am so blessed to have so many friends and new angels by my side. I could not go through this torture with out them!

Many blessings to you all. Have a great night!

Infaith..

My advice for you is for you to be wary contacting all these people...

you yourself are getting drawn in to the drama of all of this....and that is exactly what your husband thrives for...

you need to step back from this..way back...and as objectively look at the whole picture...

from what I gather from your posts..

you yourself were once the OW to this man....but didn't know he was married...
your wordss...

I did not even know, until after I had fallen so deeply in love with him

not sure how being deeply in love negates your actions in an affair...

but here we are today with the exact same pattern occuring but you are now the wife...

this man thrives on this stuff...

what concerns me is you being fed crap about ex-wife antics...well ex-wife's world crashed on her like it is pressing in on you...and I am sure in all that chaos she did escalate somethings ..

BUT you need to look at what your husband did with her pain....turned it around and used it against her....
made her look like a crazy woman...
and he came out unscaithed...

he will do the same to you....
he is doing the same to you..

you need to stop all chaos on your end and choose out of his twisted game...

he feeds on the attention good bad negative posititive....it's ALL good to him....

even your describing of D-day...he emotes woes to all he has hurt...
blah blah blah blah..

you want to get his attention
you want to get some control in this...

go plan b
go dark
and remove yourself from all of this...
he will hate that...
it's what he fear's most..
focusing on him....

If I were you I'd drop the notion of finding ex-wife....etc etc etc...
and go dark...

ARK

Infaith -

I agree with ARK, go dark and leave all this drama. No good will come of it. You already know what you are dealing with as you have lived it from both sides now. You will learn nothing new from digging. It's just a way to stay connected to the drama.

Go dark, dark, dark where you can reclaim yourself and leave his sickness behind you.

When he hits the ground, if he hits the ground it will be a very long time from now as he has a long way to fall, you need to be far removed because to be close enough by to catch him would only hinder what badly needs to happen. And that is for him to fall, hit bottom and then go through the necessary self changes to be worthy of love.

Ark and Weaver…
I agree with you both. This is just all ‘way to much drama/excitement’ for me. It is very hard to not want to know just what has been going on the past few years of my life. I have only been consciencly aware of this for 9 awful days. That being said, I do think you are right. I am in the process of protecting myself.

Monday morning I will be heading in to the attorney to see what my options are. I am sure that he is charging stuff like crazy….we have quite a bit of debt together and the attorney of course will be one more expenses to figure out how to pay. I have had to dredge up some things for this particular appointment. I am hoping to end this drama, but as you all know even when I choose D, it will be a nutso road, BUT with an end in sight. I have not been in contact with him at all, nor he with me.

We have a home that he at least last week made the payment on….could he just not stop the automatic check deposit yet? I have decided that what ever happens that being out of this ridiculous ‘story’ is where I need to go. You are also right about when he hits bottom, if he ever does, it will be a long climb back up. No I don’t want to waste anymore of my life
.
I also just woke up wondering, although never violent, if he intended to be putting me up into the attic. That would be one place to get rid of me at.

I am doing something ‘other’ than participating in this drama this afternoon. I do need a break. I appreciate your input and support.

Infaith,

I believe very strongly that people can change, but only when they no longer have a choice - when staying the same is too painful to be an option.

I am not saying to divorce, as I believe that there is always a chance as long as you want there to be one.

But you are definately doing the right thing with consulting an atty and protecting yourself financially.

I was once the OW in my relationship. I went dark about 6 weeks ago, not a real plan B because I left no option for return open in my letter. He now appears to be falling, he wrote me an 8 page letter saying how sorry he was for what he has done, beginning with lying to me about being married when we met (and for 8 months after, and yes he is a traveling man also). Said he is spending time alone with the Lord now, can't eat, can't sleep pretty much in hell. He has a ways to go in my opinion but for his sake I hope he continues to fall until he hits the ground for real.

But after no contact with him, and removing myself from the chaos of his very screwed up self, I am at peace mostly and moving on.

I really wish you well as I have an inkling as to what you are feeling and going through.

Weaver

Can you explain this "attic thing", and what your BIL was looking for. I must have missed something.

Thank you,

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Oh Weaver, I am sorry to hear this. How does one go dark and move on, when now they have 'fear'? I have one vehicle locked up in my backyard, I have changed the locks. I have disconnected my garage door. I am frightened to leave my home in fear that he comes and breaks in, I do leave, but it is not comfortable. Yes, he has not given me reason to believe he would, BUT he has a major collection in this house, that I know he will be needing to sell for money. It seems to me it is only a matter of time. The bit of reprieve I found yesterday talking to bar woman, was that they really don't have a reason to be in town now, other than to find me unsuspecting. I do think that after the atty visit, I will have more answers..

Cut and pasted from previous post:

About the attic: All of our ladders have been removed from the house, we used to have 2. My sister and I were in the garage, when she looked up and asked "what is up there?" I told her nothing but old rat poop, as I had been told.

We then saw the bookshelf, sitting on another sturdy shelf, strategically placed, we thought: "let’s go look"!

She climbed up, I warned her that the bookshelf was not connected to the wall, it could fall over. I then looked closer and IT HAD BEEN SCREWED TO THE WALL! She asked that maybe he attached it to be earthquake proof, BUT nothing is kept on the shelf really. He doesn't even mow the lawn, he really wouldn't think about it falling down, for normal reasons. We did freak.

The floor to the attic is unstable, according to the previous owners. We did not go up there, we just flashed a light around. There is a blown in insulation layer, looks like a 6" snowfall ALL OVER THE FLOOR. EXEPT there is a path all the way down to the other end of the attic.

Sister would not let me walk through it. BIL is now coming Friday to look. I don't know if I can wait that long though.

I just went out to look around in the garage - H is organized, the garage is a disaster & always has been. I have organized the garage at least once a year and it always seems to be in shambles within a few weeks later.

The drill we own has been missing for months. I have looked everywhere. HE even mentioned it to me a few months back. AND I just found the drill! In a very obvious place. THERE IS NO DOUBT it was not there before.

I looked closer at the shelf. It has been attached to the wall in 3 places! This is totally weirding me out. I have to get up there! But, I will not do anything stupid.

FYI: I am not weird, nor have I watched too many movies. Really. I am normally a calm, rational, think before I react, kind of gal. I also have a ton of patience – which is running out, regarding the ATTIC!

Wow, this is getting interesting.

Can't even comment, just going to wait for your update thread called "what is hidden in the attic" - just like Nancy Drew, heh?

Well you sound good anyway, not a complete heartbroken mess judging from your writing.

Still, distance yourself as much as possible from any more emotional chaos, okay?

Now I'm getting freaked out just thinking about it. Oh how we all love drama.

Take it easy,

Weaver

Yeah, this is all just way to bazzaarrrooo to be my life. I am actually quite boring and like it that way! I get enough excitement out of just meeting people and life to be making up a bunch of c..p.
I have an old dog - a rotty about 140lbs, that has not been able to get up off the floor all day today...his hips have been going out. I have managed to help him get outside a few times today but, he just lost a major smelly pile of doo-do in my living room.
I can't wait to see what happens next! (not really, a calm, uneventful day is what I pray for today).
I am going to take another nap before it all starts in again.