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I posted earlier today to see if there was an article about fog talk. My husband is happy to read posts on here. After a conversation yesterday, i have realised that he carries a lot of pain from things that I said to him whilst "in the fog". Unfortunately although fog talk is something we refer to often on here, there doesnt seem to be an article or post defining and giving examples of it.my husband says he doesnt think it exists.
So...over to you guys...please help me out by giving your definitions and some examples of "fog talk" so that my husband understands that it was the alien in me speaking to him. I say this jokingly but he was, and is, extremely hurt by my words (said 2 years ago).
Thankyou all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <small>[ September 20, 2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>
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debbra - There are two threads here on fog talk. One is on Recovery and the other on General Questions. I tried to search for them, but couldn't find them. Maybe someone else can find them.
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Hi Debbra ! Heres a thread I started about my own dear FWWs fog talk Mrs Pures' Fog Compendium and theres a wonderful reference in it from way2 to another much bigger Fog collection. Whats the stupidest answer you ever got ? Hope this helps ! <small>[ September 20, 2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>
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Bob and believer...thanks for your replies. These threads give good examples of fog talk. What I really need is a definition of exactly what the fog and fog talk is.
Ill start off myself.
We often use the expression "seeing through rose coloured glasses". Being "in the fog", due to having an affair, is similar. It changes the WS's perception of reality, both past, present and future. It also makes the spouse totally self centred and unable to consider anyone else but his/herself. It also renders him incapable of seeing anything but the faults of the BS and puts him in mind to injure the BS verbally.
1. Change of perception of the past.
I remember telling my BS that I had never really loved him and that I had married him because I thought that i wouldnt find anyone else. I truly believed this when I was in the fog. Looking back now I know just how much in love we were and how that wedding day was truly the happiest day of my life. The fog clouded my memory of this time.
2. Change of perception of the present.
When my affair began I had a reasonably happy marriage. We had our ups and downs , like anyone else, and both failed to meet each others needs in some respects. Overall, however, we were happy, wonderfully communicative and loved each other. Having the affair made me begin to believe that our marriage was actually not that good and made me concentrate on the negative aspects of it. In my fog i would tell my husband all these things. This made him terribly sad as he began to believe that we had been living a lie for all those years.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
The WS may also believe that God wants the affair to happen, it is fate and nothing can be done about it. Religious values are completely clouded. Fog talk will reflect this.
3. Change of perception of the future.
I had always looked forward to retirement with my husband. we had wonderful plans about how we were going to remodel our home and of the trips that we would take together and other things that we would do. The fog made me believe that retirement with him would be a dreadful prospect. i remember clearly telling him that i did not want to spend my retirement with him....
4. Spouse becomes Self centred
Self becomes the focus of the WS's life. Children become a side issue and we believe that they will thrive through a break-up. We pretend that they are strong, resilient and adaptable. No amount of research results will convince us otherwise. I told a friend that " I cannot sacrifice my happiness for anyone else". True love , of course, is the opposite of this. The bible teaches us that the greatest love is one who lays down his life for his friends. When we truly love we are prepared to sacrifice whatever for those we love. The fog eclipses this view and whilst we are in it we truly love only ourselves. We think that we love the OP but we actually love only the way that he/she makes us feel. Fog talk will reflect this. there is an example on another thread of a man who wanted to take his daughter out of hospital for the night so that he could see the OW.... Our true feelings for our loved ones are eclipsed.
4. WS sees only the faults of the BS and will try to verbally injure them
Fault finding is an essential part of the fog. The attitude of "You drove me into this affair" is commonplace. A WS will shift all blame for the cause of the affair onto the BS. Harley teaches us that whilst the WS is in the fog that the BS cannot deposit love units. The fog makes us see the negative in our spouses and believe that we are truly incompatible.
Verbally injuring spouses is another aspect of this. The WS will want the BS to leave him/her and will take every opportunity to injure him/her verbally in order to try and precipitate this. The WS does not want to take the blame for the affair happening and so shifting of blame and general negative perception of the BS is necessary. The WS will probably not realise the motivation behind their compulsion to fault find. The fog simply changes their view of their spouse. The one in the fog cannot imagine any view other than their own being right.
5.The WS will feel that the BS is trying to take control of their life. The WS wants space (ie to do what they like and not be bound by wedding vows). They honestly feel that the BS wants to run their life and have then fit into a mould that they do not fit into (ie happy marriage to teh BS). they do not understand that the BS is being perfectly reasonable in their aspirations of a normal married life. Thus their speech will be peppered with the need that they have for space and accusations of the BS being a control freak whose purpose in life is to stop them from being happy.
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My husband once told me that he was out walking on a very foggy day. The fog was so thick that he could barely see his hand if he put it infront of him. He could see neither behind, infront or around him. the only thing he could percieve was himself. This is what the WS is like in the fog. WS cannot see the past, present or future as it truly is. Self is the dominating factor, and even that may not be seen clearly. As the fog lifts, the WS will slowly see reality. Any contact with the Op will cause the fog to fall again to a greater or lesser extent.
Please feel free to add (or subtract!) from this thread. I hope that it is useful to someone. Certainly as I have been writing I have become more aware of the true extent of the verbal cruelty suffered by my husband during my fog (which lasted a very long time). i can now better understand how much I hurt him and why he is so reluctant to commit to trying in our relationship.... <small>[ September 21, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>
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Debbra,
thanks, I needed this. My WW is so in the fog right now it is scary. I've been in Plan A for about 7 weeks, but with a few blow ups in between.
I had a conversation with my WW yesterday and she reinforced her positions on us, future, etc. She is even still denying there is an A, although I have proof otherwise.
Anyway, on the way to work today I found myself questioning my M, our lives together, maybe it wasn't that good, etc. This post brought me back to reality.
Please read my post- Plan A failing, I'm losing the faith. I'd love your input.
I'm going to continue in Plan A for a while, but I see no end in sight for my WW to break through the FOG. Do you have to hit rock bottom before the FOG is lifted?
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TDVA...have just read your thread and am about to post.
please note that I have edited my post and added a bit about the need for space. <small>[ September 21, 2004, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>
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Bump! Come on u guys...I need some back up here!!!!
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Debra...
here is an old post of mine about fog... I haven't really read it carefully through...and I am not sure that on this day i agree necessarrily with what i wrote...but here it is..an once i have a minute ...I might even rebuttal my self... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
here it is...
Wanting I read your post below....and thought that you brought up some good points about not buying into the FOG THEORY...(duh duh duh daaaaa) just imaginge heavy organ music playing in the back-ground each time the 'fog' word appears....
I use the term fog a lot in my postings....but I think that it is good to revisit what that means for different people and what deeper applications may apply to the use of the 'fog' word...duh duh duh daaaaaa...
perhaps you and I and others may want to address this term....
TO ME...(me me me )....the use of the word fog...is really pertaining to the depth of an affair relationship....
Let me say that I find the occurance of infidelity to be a grossly disrepectful act to ALL THREE people involved...meaning that in my opinion it is a toxic relationship to the BS, WS AND...the OP... (throw in kiddies and then we've just added the potential to hurt even more people)
I realize that this board can be top heavy with BS points of view...and that pain comes out more often than not...but that doesn't mean that people here don't acknowledge the pain of the WS here...
In my opinion the term fog is not used to deny that the feelings of the WS/OP are not heavily felt....It is not meant to deny the existance of these feelings...what the term fog symbolizes is the circumstances that exist in making these feelings/promises unrealistic based on the present circumstances....
I believe that all people deserve to be in relationships that truly celebrate their souls worth....and people that are married can not truly celebrate in all ways their relationship with others outside of that marriage...It is the truest form of living in a state of painful opposition... And connecting with others only on certain levels...be them sexualy..emotionally...conversationally...without the whole package causes damage to all involved... A fullfilling relationship in one in which we can nuture and be nutured when the need is present at any moment...not when it exists only within certain realms.
The term fog in my opinion is more a term used to describe someone professing such profound emotion which they do feel with out the freedom to really follow up on them....it is not denying the feeling...It is denying the action behind the feeling.
Just my spin on it....
ARK
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Hey Debbra,
I threw you back a question on my post about Plan A failing. Please check it out.
My WW is so deep in the fog it is scary. Question is, how do you or can you set up boundaries while still trying to do Plan A as best as possible.
Need help
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Does anyone have anything to add to this. My husband is loathe to buy into the fog theory....he is reading this thread though....calling for back up!
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Debbra...Fog aint no theory ! Its just not been documented empirically !
EVERYONE BS on here has Fog stories where WS talks absolutely SH!TE while the A is active and through withdrawal, then the fog lifts in patches and they return to rationality bit by bit.
Its not a theory, its a witnessable fact in every Affair.
Interesting that there seems to be no actual reference guide to affair fog though, considering it is such a prevalanet and common phenomenon.
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debbra...
why doesn't your husband post himself here...
What are the real things you and he are struggling with???
are you two in recovery counseling...and also know that using the term fog talk or babble probably doesn't really explain how a person is capable...of doing and saying things....
those things even in the greatest confusion remain a choice....
how do you explain your affair behavior...
ARK
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Hi Debbra,
Thanks for opening this thread. It is reassuring that what I hear from WW is confirmed by others' experience as fog talk. I'll be reading with interest further postings.
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TDVA:
It is time for you to start exposing the affair. The exposure will disrupt the affair and bring reality to the affair, testing its strength.
Exposure is your best friend.
Try it and see. I've been there.
TooSoon
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