Well, I've been very hesitant to post this because I'm not sure if anyone can help me or will understand this anyway. I have always had low self-esteem issues and I actually suffered from bulimia for years - which I finally overcame on my own. Obviously, my H's affair has totally creamed my self-esteem all over again and I'm really down on myself.

See, for years my H has had what I thought was a low sex-drive and during the last five years we struggled with his ED issues (familiar story on this site). I, on the other hand, enjoy sex (sheepish) and have what I consider a moderate to high sex drive. He has not met that need for me since probably our first or second year of marriage. There have always been reasons he didn't want to or was too tired to - work, school, stress, etc..... I always felt so rejected but yet I tried to understand. Then the ED issues pretty near destroyed any confidence I had in myself because I blamed myself - I wasn't attractive, I wasn't fun, etc... Now that I found out for the past couple of years he has been having an affair I am just in complete despair about my desireability (sp). I also wonder if he has been cheating on my during most of our marriage and I just missed the signs???

I just don't know what to do about my thoughts because I know I will never get the truth from him and he will not go to therapy on his own. Our MC told me not to think like that, but how could I not. The worst of it is that we still have sex only about once a week if that. It was more frequent initially, but now it's back to pre-A. I don't think I can do this anymore and take this rejection over and over. Any ideas from men - especially WS's - would be appreciated. This is not easy for me to deal with.

Intellectually I know that I am an average, attractive female, but inside I feel like the ugliest woman in the world. I have shared these feelings with my H, but he still doesn't seem to put any effort into our sex life. Maybe it has too much importance to me - thoughts anyone???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by SpouseGuess:

I just don't know what to do about my thoughts because I know I will never get the truth from him and he will not go to therapy on his own. Our MC told me not to think like that, but how could I not.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What are your boundaries about this? have you decided that without knowing "the truth" you cannot remain married? What decision have you made, or are you still waiting to make a decision about this?

I am confused about what your MC told you, could you elaborate?

pep

Pep - When I expressed my desire for full disclosure of his affair and the fact that I believe there is a possibility of past affairs in front of the MC her response was "How will that help you", "Maybe you should not talk about the affair(s) anymore since it probably just upsets you more and causes more problems" or something to that effect. Then when I tried to explain that I wanted the truth so that we could figure out why he needed to have an affair her response was "What difference does it make because we may never know the answer to that question? Only if your H is willing to go through intense physcho analysis could we find the answer to that question and how would that help YOU get over this? Your H has told you that he himself doesn't know why so how is continuously going over the affair going to help?" Then she told me that I needed to move on with my life and either accept the affair or separate from him. Needless to say, I am no longer seeing this MC, but I have not found a new one yet. She basically validated my H's desire to move on without figuring out why and now I'm not sure what to do.

To answer your question - I am not entirely sure that I can live with things the way they are, but I'm not ready to give up yet I guess. I WANT and NEED to know why, but the MC basically said that it wouldn't matter anyway.

DJ here...

I think you MC may be an [censored]...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Pep

Then when I tried to explain that I wanted the truth so that we could figure out why he needed to have an affair her response was "What difference does it make because we may never know the answer to that question? Only if your H is willing to go through intense physcho analysis could we find the answer to that question and how would that help YOU get over this?

Your response...

"I need to know what I am attempting to get over. I need to define the problem before I look for a resolution. How can I work to resolve something that is yet undefined?"

~~~~~~~ sheesh!~~~~

Why not call the Harley's and get some definitive help?

Pep

Intellectually I know that I am an average, attractive female, but inside I feel like the ugliest woman in the world.

Feelings can undermine your reality if you allow them to rule....

I have shared these feelings with my H, but he still doesn't seem to put any effort into our sex life.

Then jump his bones.... YOU become the aggressor.

Maybe it has too much importance to me - thoughts anyone???

I do not think it is unreasonable for you to hope your H finds you sexually desirable... I do think it's possible you may have a needy-ness that speaks too loudly into your head... "You are not good enough" ... and that inner-voice supercedes your marriage problems.

Pep

MC is a young field, and it seems there are many credentialed professionals doing it badly. Reminds me of that old SNL where Steve Martin was the barber: "Madam, what you need is a good bleeding!"

SG, I don't know what it's like to be a man with a low sex drive. I have heard of men like this, but I think they're mythical creatures. Is it possible that your H has learned to get his SF in other ways? Self-gratification can be very satisfying, even moreso in a purely physical sense than intercourse. For some men, it becomes their primary source of SF. It's so much safer than that untidy mess you have to deal with when there's another person there, getting all sweaty and emotional. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now - complaining to your H that you feel unattractive will not make you seem more attractive to him.

Furthermore, you must train your mind to stop believing that everything that happens is about you. Your H's problems need to belong to him first. You say you like sex and that you are attractive. Okay then, be the sexy woman that you are.

And finally, did you say you enjoy sex with sheep?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC

First of all I agree with Pep, I think your MC is an [censored]!

Secondly you asked for a WS perspective, I'm new at this but here goes. Please don't take your WH actions as a reflection of how attractive you are. My wife is a VERY beautiful woman, from head to toe she is perfect in every way. I still failed her and with a woman MUCH less attractive than her. I'm still in the begining stages so I can't say exactly why I did it but it had nothing to do with her. Also, she met my sexual needs as often as I liked and sometimes more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

I hope this helped and good luck!

Read this .... especially Joseph's letter...

the need to know...

Your MC needs a copy of this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

Pep - Lost my first post so let's try again. First of all thanks for your unfailing good advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> My neediness is mostly a factor now and I tend not to share too much of that with my husband. Our MC called it "shielding him from my pain". My H and kids always come first with me, which I now believe is the biggest problem that I have. I'm working on that!

As far as initiating sex - I have tried and my H complains that it gives him performance anxiety, again problems with ED. He at one time during this whole ordeal said that I am too aggressive! Apparently a married woman who wants sex with someone other than her husband is not considered aggressive in his eyes and is seen as a turn on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WTF! Also, he purchased quite a bit of Viagra to ensure that he did NOT have this issue for the OW.

I have seen Joseph's letter and ironically I printed it out to give to my H on the day before our last MC session. Of course, now I hesitate to give it to him since she essentially told me it was unnecessary for me to get the whole truth. I have valid reasons to believe that I do not have the whole truth BTW - starting with the amount of money spent on Viagra. He is standing by his original story with an even greater vengence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

GC - Don't misunderstand me - I certainly do not go on and on to my H about how unattractive I am. That may have come up on a couple of occasions, but mostly I keep it to myself. I buy sexy underwear, I work out, I have even tanned this summer to make myself appealing. Other men find me appealing and he claims to find me sexy, but still very little sex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> The few times I have tried to initiate sometimes end in disaster so I backed off and now am scared of further rejection. Maybe the chase is the turn on for him - with other women. I wonder if I am married to a serial cheater. I have evidence of chat sites, porn, emails to an ex-fiance, and now the affair.

SISF - Thanks for your words of comfort. My H has said the same thing, but I find it hard to believe him right now. Why then have an affair???

BTW - To all who have responded. There was a time during our marriage about 5 years ago, when I was regaining my lost confidence in myself, working in a job I liked, and meeting new people. My H didn't find me more attractive - he simply accused me of having an affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> So what does all this mean? It just makes me wonder more about what I don't know. I proved to him that I wasn't having an affair, but he maintained for a long time that I was.

Originally posted by SpouseGuess:

As far as initiating sex - I have tried and my H complains that it gives him performance anxiety, again problems with ED.

He's got ya cornered! Damned if ya do, and damned if ya don't!

He at one time during this whole ordeal said that I am too aggressive!

[censored]... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Apparently a married woman who wants sex with someone other than her husband is not considered aggressive in his eyes and is seen as a turn on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WTF!

In some weird way, this may be "safe" for him... if a stupid OW rejects his advances or laughs at his ED ... then there is no "sting"... whereas if his wife finds out he feels inadequate sexually, she is in the better position to tear him to shreds (not that you would, but he fears you have the power)

Also, he purchased quite a bit of Viagra to ensure that he did NOT have this issue for the OW.

grrrrrrrrrr <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I have seen Joseph's letter and ironically I printed it out to give to my H on the day before our last MC session. Of course, now I hesitate to give it to him since she essentially told me it was unnecessary for me to get the whole truth.

She's an [censored]... it's OK.... I took a poll, we all agree... an [censored]

I have valid reasons to believe that I do not have the whole truth BTW - starting with the amount of money spent on Viagra. He is standing by his original story with an even greater vengence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

And he has the support of the [censored] MC to back him up!


The few times I have tried to initiate sometimes end in disaster so I backed off and now am scared of further rejection.

I bet he is fearful as well.. call it a hunch.

What are you doing now MB-wise? Plan A i guess... right? Eliminate DJs , fill ENs etc... correct?

Pep

<small>[ September 22, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep - Agree with much of what you said - the MC really screwed me over big time I fear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> As far as MB - yes I am plan A'ing my [censored] off. Thus the vent about my rejection here - I don't voice that type of thing to him for fear of making him feel worse. We really get along quite well believe it or not and I have never called him names or anything over any of this. I really have tried to take everything here to heart. Yes, I have made some disrespectful judgements surrounding the A - I'm human, but I really keep the very bad feelings away from him. I try to use the old when you do this, or because of this I FEEL like this type of thing. I have tried everything to get the full story and now it appears that I need to either accept his version knowing it is not the truth or making a decision about moving on without him. I don't fear staying married to him - I love him and my kids. I fear that because of the deep issues that HE has will not be resolved without HIS effort then it doesn't matter what I DO or SAY. There is nothing that I can do. I am working on rebuilding my self-confidence, but if he does this again because it doesn't get resolved now, then what? He doesn't really get the whole MB thing BTW. Thinks all counseling is pretty lame. I have to say that I agree on that with the MC that we had.

I feel like I've given a somewhat jumbled version of my life and it seems confusing. The MC didn't seem to think any of this stuff mattered and maybe it doesn't. I had a very rough childhood (who hasn't?) and my father was verbally, sometimes borderline physically, abusive and my mother has some mental illness (bipolar). Thus the low self-esteem and bulimia issue. I overcame those things prior to marriage. I was more confident, no more bulimia, and I had forgiven my parents.

The first two years of marriage were great and then we had our first child. That is when the irregular sex came into play. At that time my H was building his career, getting certification, and I was in college full-time. My H was gone alot and I was the primary caregiver to our child. I started to suffer some depression and the lack of SF during this time contributed to my low self-esteem. I chalked his lack of desire up to stress and work, but now think maybe it was something else.

Then after college and a few dead end jobs I landed a pretty good job and was making friends and going out sometimes - not often and working on my MBA. Instead of enjoying my new confidence my H accused me of having an A, I wasn't, and I ended up quitting the social scene, quitting school, and then lost the job due to a buyout. Still didn't make my H happy and then enter the ED.

Now, I am a SAHM with a part-time job and I find that my H has been chatting online to singles, spent two years emailing his ex-fiance and they may have even met, then had a 19 month affair with a co-worker. All in the last five years and this I only know because of my "investigation". My H downplays it all and only admits to the affair after 6 months of lying about it and only after I found love letters written to her that he claims she never saw. He totally downplays the whole affair, they only met about 5 times, yet over the course of two years he bought at least 60 pills of Viagra. We certainly were not having sex that frequently! And the MC thinks none of this is important. WTF???

Am I crazy in thinking that my H has some underlying issues here? The fact that it is still affecting our sex life is what contributes to my lack of self-esteem (my problem I know), but I really don't know what to do. Fixing my issue doesn't resolve this although it will help I'm sure. So go ahead with the 2x4s.

Hello SG....

No, you are not crazy. I think when it comes to SF and the one we love the most, rejections hurt deeply, and in many ways.

But listen to Pep (whose animal nature is coming out - [censored], [censored])! Cracks me up!

For the poll, I think your MC is the [censored]-END OF THE [censored]! Glad you dumped the pig when you did!

During the past 3+ years while WH has been having his A, his sex drive with me has gone down hill. And he always was such a horn-dog!

He rejected many of my advances. But seemed to really enjoy SF after he had told me something that hurt me to the core. Underlying issues? You bet!

After I knew about the A, I was thinking that one of the reasons that he rejected me so much was that he was trying NOT to CHEAT on the OW!!!

Now is that CRAZY, or what? My self esteem? In the toilet! THANK GOD THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THAT AREA FOR ME!

If you can, talk to the Harleys. If you're trying to be a MB, this is your best bet to get some GOOD advice.

K72172

k72172 - Thanks for the response. I guess what it really boils down to is what you said - rejection of physical intimacy from your spouse is extremely painful. I realize there are other ways to be close, but for me this need is very strong. The more I need to feel close to him, the more I want the physical intimacy. What I find most painful is that he has always known that about me and yet he still gave that part of himself to another woman. I know, I know, I focus to much on what he gave to her, but since it deprived me it really hurts. I think about how many nights I laid awake wondering why he never touched me anymore and what was wrong with ME when all along he was emotionally and physically with someone else <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I guess I waste far too much energy trying to figure this whole thing out when deep down I know that it is his issue not what is wrong with me. It is hard not to think that way - especially given my past. He thinks that there is no reason to figure out why - it just is - and now we should move on. He says and does all of the right things now, but again the physical intimacy is still not there very often. Again, maybe I should focus on the things he does and not worry about that so much - even if it helps me feel closer to him. Between a rock and a hard place (no pun intended) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />