Hi there! I usually stick mostly to posting "In Recovery" (mainly because I don't have time to read anymore posts then what I do over there) but I followed your thread over here tonight. I was quite interested in what everyone was saying and thought I would add my two cents.

My H and I truly are survivors of an A in good part to MB and what we have read in Dr. Harleys books and the support I have recieved here on the boards.

I had just started reading His Needs, Her Needs when I found out and I am so thankful I was as I was able to find this board and get the book "Surviving An Affair" right away. I plan A'ed it for a very long time and I believe that is one of the reasons my H didn't leave. (Not that I needed the book to figure that one out.)

Like some others have mentioned at first we would of been totally lost without MB. It was a lifeline for us and told us "yes this can happen but you can get through it!!"

We are still following the EN and LB principals as much as we can and find it really works. We also have a wonderful MC who has helped us so much as a couple and as individuals.

All this being said I believe the thing that has had the most impact on the success of our recovery is us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and the hard work we have done!!!

MB worked for me. Of course, I didn't know that I was following "Plan A" when the OW first came to light. I reacted with my gut, which told me not to accuse, not to overreact......just to chill for a little bit and try to talk. It worked for me.

OW was one of my best friends, made it much more difficult to sit back and take a seat for the ride. I guess my situation might have been a little bit different, as WH was not involved in a PA but an EA. I personally think that EA's are more dangerous, but it's my personal opinion. EA's involve alot more spouse trashing than PA's do.

Unfortunately, some of the individuals on this website belittled my reading of the entire affair. They argued that WH was involved in PA, even though I was sure he was not due to his ethics. I believed then, and know for a fact now that there was no way he could have had PA without having me out of the picture first, either through a separation or divorce.

Anyway, success story...18 months post EA and still surviving. It takes work, wouldn't have survived without alot of sacrifice on my part. Was it worth it? Yes, definitely.

Only three months into this but studying MB, effecting a rigidly adhered to plan A and exposing intelligently contributed to killing my FWWs A, sowed teh seeds for the recovery we are just entering, and made me stronger and more 'examining' than I have been in my life.

Harleys principles, the wonderful wonderful folks on here have helped me restore my faith on God and in myself.

I ruly believe I would be dead or in jail for murder had I not discovered MB so soon after D-day.

I don't know what will happen to us, but I know me & the kids will be just fine, and thanks to MB and God's use of it in my life. Theres no money that could of bought that.

Sadly MB could not save my marriage but what I learnt here is very precious, and I am applying it in my new relationship with a little help from my friends here.

Note that some of it can be applied to how you deal with all people in your life.

I believe it does work, but it may not be able to save a marriage that has been in trouble for a long time or if one partner absolutely refuses to follow any of its principles.

I must say I didn't follow MB to a T. But I read most of the concept and allowed myself Plan C and plan W.... and the Plan Harudah way, seriously, I just wouldn't have stayed in my marriage or heal properly without MB. The day I discovered this website, it gave me hope that I didn't HAVE to leave my marriage because of that. I thought an Affair was the main flag for divorce and that's that. I learned to see it another way.....

So yeah, even if my M do not work out.. I think I can get up after this.

I came to MB last year to try in learn as much as possible before I married my H. But, despite all I learnt I still didn't see it coming.

But, thanks to MB, the moment I found out I knew what to do through all the pain. I am pretty sure that I would'nt have married H if it wasn't for MB, and if I had we would't be as happy as we are now.

As soon as I found out, I understood exactly why it happened, and exactly how to prevent it happening in the future. I knew that we could get through it and that it did not need to spell the end.

I tried my best to be calm and plan A, whilst still letting him see me in pain. I exposed to his brother and all our friends, and I think this all worked very well. There was no question of the A continuing.

Now we are very happy, and I am glad I married him despite the reservations of some people here. In my mind, the decision had already been made when we got engaged, and I was not about to go back on that.

We are more in love now than ever. I believe that is a result of what I have learnt from the site and from all of you. In particular, I would like to thank you, believer, for giving me the benefit of your wise words and experience way beyond me.

I would also like to send some love to heroswife, harudah and toprope, and all of you in the hope that we can all be happy and fulfilled in the future. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Believer,
MB does work. That said, it leads to a happy marriage if both husband and wife co-operate, and it leads to separation and/or divorce if only one spouse co-operates. I've often thought that Harley's guarantee would more appropriately be the guarantee to end bad marriages. Right now, the program's guarantee is that you will be love with each other if the lessons are completed, and that can lead to the false hope that one spouse can bully the other into completing the program and the unfortunate view that the program has failed if the marriage ends. There are things worse than a divorce, including living with a person who has no regard for you or your feelings -- trapped by the trappings of marriage.

For me personally, I am not sure where we are going in our M. My H sends mixed signals at best. However, I have learned a lot, and I have maintained my value in the permanence and sacredness of marriage while learning not to tolerate complete disregard for me or my feelings. I've learned that my own personal dignity is not in conflict with the value of marriage.

The core of Harley's program is that you fall in love when you meet in particular the emotional needs of intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment, affection, and recreational companionship. Harley has two introductory lessons for his program and then the next four lessons are to meet these needs. They are supposed to be weekly lessons. Well, we spent 3 months on affection before Harley recommended we move to conversation. We are now on the conversation lesson.

What I have learned is that there has been complete disregard for my feelings, and when I couldn't tolerate it I had a fit. The best example of that is that, during the affair, Tom once said, "She's calling me, and it would be rude of me to hang up." He was denying the affair, and I was thinking that my angry outbursts were convincing him this was serious. Where was any regard whatsoever for my feelings? My response was to get so upset that finally he said I needed therapy, and that's the direction I went in. When the affair came out, I think I may have been close to a nervous breakdown.

So, now, in our conversations, I let him know how I feel. Sometimes it matters, although mostly I am being too "extreme" or too "demanding" or too "controlling". What I am learning is to not ask anything of him or not speculate anything on his behavior or intentions but simply to tell him my feelings and to honor them myself.

There have been fleeting moments for me of the in-love feeling because he has been attentive to my needs for affection. He has not told me the same thing, but he has said, "I think Harley is exactly right." It was Harley on his radio program who told me to call Sophia's husband, and back then in 2002 Tom told me Harley was a "clown."

I think Plan B or Plan D does not mean that MB doesn't work. I think it means that the whole basis of the program is that each individual has free will. Each person can choose actions which lead to divorce -- or hell. The e-mail support which Harley gives is just terrific, in part, because he does sometimes recommend separation or even divorce. If a "reluctant spouse" (his term) is unwilling to practice the behaviors which will allow the couple to fall in love with each other, then the program won't work.

You may think your H has come out on top. You know what? He is with a woman who was willing to betray her own husband and to have him betray her. He is a booby prize unless / until he wakes up. God's commandments are his loving way to have us do what will make us happy, and there's a reason why adultery is in two of the ten commandements.

The program has worked for you, too. It has led to divorce because you have honored your husband's free will decision to choose.

Cherished

PS. One more thing about the program is that there is no end of support if you ask for it -- or, at least, I haven't seen any end. Since February, when I started the program, Harley has answered more than 70 e-mails to me personally. Those e-mails are viewed by others, of course, but they addressed my particular concerns. I think one of the reasons why the program is so good is that Harley is willing to take on marriage that are the worst of the worst. We had the combination of an affair and severe physical abuse.

<small>[ September 23, 2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

I am constantly amazed at you folks who post on here with stories of great success, mild success, and even no success with your marriages. But what really amazes me is the hope shown by so many in such adverse conditions! This board is full of the most faithful people I have ever heard of and it is my pleasure to be able to read about each of you.

My M will soon end. Plan-A busted. WW would not stop R w/OM. Came home 4-times, left 5. Plan-B has been unsuccessful and is not going to work. WW brought D papers over 2-days ago for me to review & sign. (Which I will do.) I've studied the MB principles for 6+ years now but could never talk WW into reading any of it. WW comes from a tough background where personal opinions are all that matters and how those opinions are derived is not important. (Soap operas, romance novels, affair(s), etc. are guidelines.) In other words; it's her opinion that our M is over, it was never good during any of our 15 years and she is moving on. MB concept will not work with only one horse pulling the load. It must be 2, just like every successful M.

MB and this board are why I held on through some tough times. I've learned valuable lessons and inspiration that I am positive will carry over to future relationships. And like many of you; I find that I cannot resist lurking and posting even if I have no personal reason to be here. I guess you could say that MB is "an addiction"!

FR

Fishracer,
I love the quote in your signature line. It says it all. For some, marriage is a relationship of personal benefit until someone who looks better comes along. For others, marriage is permanent no matter what, no matter who. There is a great divide between those two philosophies. Those who get caught up in affairs may temporarily lose their judgment and convince themselves that it's OK. For others, it's been OK all along. After all, it's the fault of the BS to not be the absolute best person in the world for the WS.
Cherished

Really good question , IMO .Yes MB does work , but ,,, not for everyone the same way . And I guess through the answers here we all see that .

I belive that a PLAN is needed for everything we do , before MB I can't say I thought that way .

I do not belive that MB cared out letter for letter will work no matter what .

All of us are indivuals and so are our FWS/WS , and not one thing is "right " for everyone .

So although I belive in the concepts , I do not belive that if someone does them out of order or excactly the way they are "WRITEN" that , it will make a difference between a recovery or D .

I used MB as a guide a tool , to best fit me and my FWS ,, but most of all I belive it is fate , sound stupid , I guess to some even childish .

Its alot like parenting , there ae many ways we all do it .

Love does not go away , if its real it never disappears (JMVHO)

For me the A was all about my FWS making a decion , plain and simple ...

It didn't matter if I wanted the M or not I needed the trueth (weather it fog or not ) then I could move on , because if thats what he could tell me he wanted to make him happy then ok by me .

He would never be able to stop me from loving him , or be with someone else .

I am here I think over 2+ years and I can say 100% that the MB board has worked ,, the support and even the pity a BS needs was found here in the people who could relate to the pain in the way no other COULD EVEN COMPREHEND !

I am in recovery and for those here I am grateful for there late nights , open minds, cyber hugs and tears ,,, It all kept me moveing ...

3

I don’t know if the MB program works for most couples. I don’t think anyone know, at least I have not seen any firm statistics.

I can say what MB did for me, as a FWS. Before I came to read here I thought that I was just an aberration. I thought I was just an ethically challenged deviant. I think that Harley gives accurate insight into the mind of a WS and how easy it is to find oneself involved in an affair. Reading Surviving an Affair, and the literature here made me realize that I wasn’t the monster that I thought I was, I was just a human that made some poor choices. His perspective somehow allowed me to begin to forgive myself for my selfishness. He gave me the guts to stay in a marriage that I though was broken beyond repair and do the hard work of loving my wife. If I hadn’t have found the MB stuff, I know that I would have just walked away. It would have been so much easier. I would have made the worst mistake of my life.

I think MB can change your perceptions on relationships and along with that the expectations. I do not think that it can bring a WS home that doesn’t wish to be there. But that is not a failing with the program, it is just the realization that you really can’t control someone else . . . you can just make the choice of choosing you more attractive than the alternative.

believer...so sorry I haven't responded sooner!

First, the answer: ABSOLUTELY. Would brown and I have still made it through it? Probably. But I certainly (and neither she) be where we are at now.

I loved the observation by drose:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The "program" here is pretty much common sense if you think about it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny, how the simplest of ideas/ideals make no sense until someone organizes them for you.

MB did not work for me in the sense that it saved my marriage. My ex just had to many mental illness issues i believe. What it has done for me though is make my new marriage much stronger. I use MB principles in most ares of my daily life.

Hi,

I would say I have Plan A'd for four months. It has been very painful pouring my love out on this man and receiving very little in return. Then I heard on the Radio about desparate women trying to keep a man who is just not into them. Who disrespects them, cheats on them, but tells them he loves them just in case he might want them. Urrgh. Then I realized I have been acting like a desparate woman pouring my heart out to my husband. Then I cried my heart out. I called my husband and told him that you get out what you put in. I told him if he wanted something out of our relationship he needed to start putting something in it. I said he was hurting me in that I am putting 100% in and I am receiving very little. I said, I don't know about you but I want this relationship now. I told him that he needed to decide if he wanted it before it was too late.

It worked for me.

I wish I could pull up some of my old posts.....so y'all could see exactly how crazy I was 3 years ago.....and how my H acted....I used to think he was the Captain of the Mothership.

It's amazing how not only my relationship with my H has changed.....but how much I myself have changed. I used to think I was delusional......now....I think I'm quite sane...though others may not agree. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My story took a little bit of a twist though.

I was the one that got over it.....filed for divorce. My H had to end up Plan A'ing me.

yes, yes, yes.

My WW had an affair 4 years ago and I did not know about Harley and this web site. We "recovered" the first time, but didn't know how to recover. Had no idea what we were doing to fix the problems and get over the first A.

Oh, how I wish I found this site 4 years ago.

Currently feeling great about my progress and understanding of the situation, my feelings, ww feelings, etc.

And thanks to all who have posted replies to my thoughts and questions.

Believer - I love this thread! It's great to see how MB has affected so many lives. OT - I'm glad you're feeling better, too. You were one of the first to post to me and get me through some very rough times. You are a lighthouse for many trying to navigate the waters of MB.

I believe MB has given my marriage a true chance of survival. It allowed me to understand the mind of my WH, not take the hurtful things he said to heart and react from that hurt, see my own problems and have the chance to work on ME, and see hope.

Without MB as a roadmap, I don't think I could have worked on this. I would have LB'ed WH right to OW. I couldn't have seen a light at the end.

And I know I wouldn't have stepped back to see my own place in the atmosphere of our relationship through the righteous indignation I felt at him having the A to begin with.

WH hasn't ended his A. We are still in a fragile place. But with the MB principles, Plan A, the people here and counseling with SH, I do believe my marriage has the chance to not only survive, but thrive.

I'm all alone and would like someone to talk to, my husband the cheat is now out of town, I don't beleive in cheating, my ex cheated I stayed away from a relationship for 7 years after I finally divorced him only to marry another cheater, he & I are still married this time though I have kids, I just can't help but hurt, my feeling about him our marriage everything is so confusing, and it's been a year since he told me, can someone say something, anything! I feel as though everybody lies, about everything and I'm left in the dark as to why? Why? I was brought up to tell the truth and I have and still do. What's srong with people?

MB worked for us. After a 4 1/2 month Plan A, FWS went NC and that was that. No contact whatsoever on either side for 9 months.

We've had our highs and lows during recovery. I actually did well with the anniversary of d-day, but not so well with our wedding anniversary. But I decided to make the effort (kinda like Plan A) and I can see how much FWS has changed over these last few months.

In a way, though, I'm kinda afraid that I won't change enough for him. But I'm very happy with our progress so far.

I really needed something like MB to shake me out of my usual routine. We had problems before the A, but spending months soaking in the MB principles has resulted in practicing them in our R and we've seen many positive changes.

MB has been a life raft in a sea of confusion.

Did it save my M? I'm still not sure, but it has aided in saving my sanity, MB has helped me better understand my FWS actions, MB has helped me to get a better grip on things I should improve to have a better R with my W. The concepts of understanding and quatifying EN's and the POJA give you tools to get the best result within your M. I usually act of my instincts (I imagine most people do) MB has taught me just because something feels natural doesn't mean it's something you should do. I was such a LBer I thought it was a personality trait, now I realize my LB's can be controlled and after months of hard work, I don't automatically LB my W. My W and I are in the early stages of recovery and I credit that progress to both MB, Dr. Harley and turning to the bible, which was SUGGESTED HERE BY FELLOW MBers. Support, Concepts that work and more support... MB has been more than successful for me it has been an inspiration. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />