My partner and I have been separated for eight months, during which time I have fallen from every possible grace in her eyes. First went the house, and at the age of 33, I have had to move back in with mt mother. Then my contact with our son has been minimised due to my starting up of a business so that I can provide for my family in the future. She doesn't feel as though there is any coming back from where we are. I don't want to flog a dead horse, but it isn't natural to inhibit the desire to rebuild whatever relationship we can eke out from sheer effort. It's not natural for me to want to walk away from my family or the potential that we could work it out, in the long run if needs be. She lives alone with my son in the next city over from mine, has withdrawn totally from every advance that I make concerning our relationship, and has only consented to one more ounselling session in order to appease me. With help from people who have passed through that treacherous gauntlet from Withdrawal back to Intimacy and finally, to reconciliation, I may be able to convince her that following through with our final few counselling sessions is a valuable thing to do. Please email me or post here with anecdotal evidence on successful relationship counselling, especially where there is one partner who stubbornly refuses to believe that there is hope for the relationship. I would like to hear how people have rekindled the flame and come back from the brink of ultimate relationship demise when they firmly believed that there was absolutely no chance for love to ever exist again between themselves and their partner. Please help, I have two kids who would love a reconciliation, yet I do not know how to appeal to my partner to convince her to see it all the way through the counselling process. Admiration, Financial support and Family commitment are the key emotional needs that are not being bet for her. I need all the brains that I can borrow on this issue. Please help if you can, just a few short words will suffice.


<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> soulbroken@hotmail.com

Well Plan A is a good place to start. If you have been pleading, begging and trying to convince her than you have not been Plan A'ing. You cannot convince someone you love them when you are telling them that what you want is more important than what they want.

Read up on Plan A and then implement it while working on the things you have stated that may have helped her get to the conclusion that she wanted out.

Good luck to you, and welcome to MB.

Weaver

Thankyou so much. I knew that victimhood wasn't working, and seemed to justify her position. Who wants a pleading man anyway? The thing is, there is nothing that I could think of as an adequate replacement. Why is victimhood such a natural reaction, and do you believe that it is the sole reason that most differences remain irreconcilable in the long term?

Do you have any evidence of an affair?

No, I have no evidence of an affair, which doesn't mean that there hasn't been one, but I am taking her on trust as she has said that she hasn't even been the faintest sort of attraction to another man as a love interest. She may have certain adult needs to attend to, and as much as that hurts me and sickens me to think of, I have no claims to her fidelity, and that hasn't been an issue in our relationship. She has separated from me, and has sovereign rights over her body, so that is something that I must respect. I know that any affair between her and another would create a gulf between us that would be nearly impossible to bridge, but that is something that I have contemplated and found myself willing to try and overcome if it eventuates. The end result here for me is what counts, and not any batterings or shatterings my ego must endure in the process. I want to get my relationship back. I don't want to get it back to it's original state, as that is where it became broken in the first place. This is a rebuilding operation, and not a renovation. If there is an affair (yuck!) so be it. There are bigger fish to fry in the long run.

Definitely read up on Plan A. There are many of us who are having to Plan A at a distance (separated from our spouses). It can be less effective than if you're living with your spouse, but it has been known to work. There is one woman on here who did it all by mail!!

Who was this woman who did it all by mail? It sounds enthralling if it actually worked! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I also need some help understanding all the shorthand, like WS, EA, WW etc, etc. Can anybody point me in the right direction so I can decode this stuff?

In the "just found out" forum, first post is a list of acronyms for the site. quickle, Ws is wayward spouse, Bs is betrayed spouse, OP/OM/OW is other person, other man, other woman, M is marriage, R is relationship

Here is the post CarolH is LD plans

Hers is not the first post..maybe a few down on the first page. The thread is long, but well worth the read.

From what you put here, you're not quite as bad off as she is. You've been separated for quite awhile now. But do you have frequent contact with her because of your child?

My first off the cuff suggestion is to go to Hallmark and buy a Shoebox greeting card (the funny ones). Find one that has nothing to do with marriage..is not sappy, etc. Find one that she'll appreciate..some joke you once shared. In the card..only write something quick and simple. Do not make it long or she might not want to take the time to read it through. Maybe just...

"Saw this card and it reminded me of the time..." or simply "Saw this card today and it reminded me of you. Hope this finds you well"

Don't sign it with love, but find a sincere ending, even if it's jus "Sincerely".

Then..send it! Do not ever ask her if she got the card if she does not mention it. Wait 2-3 wks...do the same thing.

Friend,
Here's a link to the Acronym definitions:

Acronyms and Abbreviations

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

I read your post and I can't help but feel your W is having some form of an A. When my W wanted a divorce 5 years ago, I was stunned, thrown for a loop doesn't even begin to describe my shock, maybe you could call it "Hit by a Freight Train!"

A female friend of mine told me, "It's always someone else".

I'm not trying to be presumptious, just commenting on my experience. You know her EN's? Did she fill out the EN questionnaire of did you identify those needs? I know until my W filled out that questionnaire I was off base with understanding her needs. Has she told you specifically the things that caused her to detach from your M? Why did you split up to begin with?

Thanks for the card idea. Why will it work? Maybe it won't, but why would it?

An affair? Nope. I don't know of any affair. I don't disbelieve her either. At times I have gotten cranky when she wouldn't tell me what she was up to on some nights, but I didn't smell too big of a rat anywhere. I know that she has told me some lies in the past (not about affairs or infidelities though), but she has wanted me out of her life so badly at times that I would consider any sort of affair to be a great way for her to achieve this.

Last night she filled out the EN questionnaire, after she had seen me fill out mine (I was looking after our son while she went to an information session at college). At first she told me that I was wasting time, that it was stupid etc, etc, so I just gave her a questionnaire and asked her to fill it out if she wanted to. I'm trying to treat it as some sort of road map to happiness. Her needs are (in order:

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1.Admiration
  2.Honesty and Openness
  3.Financial Support
  4.Family Commitment
  5.Conversation
  6.Affection
  7.Domestic Support
  8.Attractive Spouse
  9.Recreational Companionship
  10.Sexual Fulfillment</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
This past week I have stayed at her house twice, after she said that I could never stay there again (I counted her condoms, and told her that I was keeping a tally. Telling her was a dumb thing to do!). We even slept in the same bed, and she let me scratch her back to help her relax for sleep. There is no intimacy though.

I don't know how you can sense that she is having an affair. Maybe I am too close to the forest to see the trees. Please enlighten as to how it is you've sensed this.

thenakespage...why will it work? Well.it might not work the way you hope. But let me ask you this..it *could* work..and do you think it would HURT? I can't see how it would.

Number one reason? Your wife allows you to spend time at her place and let's you touch her in intimate ways (scratching her back). She has not cast you out of her life yet. It shows she probably considers your marriage as a viable option at some point.

The cards that are not mushy will show your wife that you respect her as a person, not just a lover. They can show that you can be her friend. They are SAFE because they are not pushing your emotions on her and pressuring her to some kind of decision. They will let her know that you care and are thinking about her, but that you're trying to force something from her. They are a way to re-initiate contact in a very safe way. You do not want your wife to dread talking to you or hearing from you (because she's not ready to talk reconciliation)..you want her to look forward to contact. How would she dread a funny card that does not seek to elicit her declarations of undying love?

Truly read up on plan A. While I think that filling out the EN's q's is not a BAD idea..you cannot expect her to be ready to fill your EN's. But it WILL give you a good idea of what you need to do to make her happy. Just be careful of "smothering". Oftentimes, if a spouse is not ready for reconciliation, your attempts at filling EN's *might* be seen as pushy or smothering. So you'll need to find a balance.

Your wife is telling you what she needs. She told you she does not want you at her place because you're counting condoms. So don't count them..or do not mention that you did. From what you're writing here, your wife seems to be afraid of you (not physically...i mean just afraid of investing too much)..so take things slow.

Plan A is really about improving the person that YOU are. You want to improve/change your behavoirs so that no matter what happens with your wife, YOU will be a better person. And if you can recognize what love busters you are guilty of, you can cease them and again be a better person all around. You want your wife to see that change is possible, that it is REAL and PERMANENT. You do not make changes only for her..you make them for yourself too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
thenakespage...why will it work? Well.it might not work the way you hope. But let me ask you this..it *could* work..and do you think it would HURT? I can't see how it would.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. It wouldn't hurt. I'll give it a go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Number one reason? Your wife allows you to spend time at her place and let's you touch her in intimate ways (scratching her back). She has not cast you out of her life yet. It shows she probably considers your marriage as a viable option at some point.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm praying you are right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Truly read up on plan A</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there another link to MORE INFORMATION ON plan A? I need to understand it in more detail than the website offers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife is telling you what she needs. She told you she does not want you at her place because you're counting condoms. So don't count them..or do not mention that you did. From what you're writing here, your wife seems to be afraid of you (not physically...i mean just afraid of investing too much)..so take things slow.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I allowed to tell her I love her? I make it a habit of sending her txt message every night which says - "Night. I love you."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is really about improving the person that YOU are. You want to improve/change your behavoirs so that no matter what happens with your wife, YOU will be a better person. And if you can recognize what love busters you are guilty of, you can cease them and again be a better person all around. You want your wife to see that change is possible, that it is REAL and PERMANENT. You do not make changes only for her..you make them for yourself too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the best advice I have received to date. Thankyou muchly.

<small>[ September 24, 2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: thenakedpage ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there another link to more information on plan A?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well? Anybody???