Hey MB buddies. It's 2:45 am so that might be a clue to skip over to another post. Some rambling might be going on in this one. I've been laying in bed for the past hour musing about life after an A. Such a fantastic subject to sleep to, which I guess is why I'm here typing. The good news is my thinking was accompanied by some good music in my head. My son's band is learning the Lynard Skynyrd song "Simple Man". I think the message in this song is the exact opposite way of being for someone in an A. It sure doesn't sound like my FWS. Since I'm wide awake I'll share the words with y'all. Skip this part if you're not interested in song lyrics.

Mama told me when I was young:
'Come sit beside me, my only son,
and listen closely to what I say
and if you do this it will help you some sunny day.'

'Oh, take your time, don't live too fast.
Troubles will come and they will pass.
Go find a woman and you'll find love
and don't forget, son, there is someone up above.'

'And be a simple kind of man,
oh, be something you love and understand.
Baby, be a simple kind of man.
Oh, won't you do this for me, son, if you can.'

"Forget your lust for the rich man's gold,
all that you need is in your soul.
And you can do this if you try.
All that I want for you, my son, is to be satisfied.'

OK, now for my musings if I can remember them now. I apologize in advance for all you brave MBers who are Plan Aing like crazy to get your WS away from the OP. Or you folks who worked your butts off to save your M but couldn't get your WS off the alien ship. I feel a bit selfish whining since my H did get beamed back home, not that I can say we're home yet. I still find myself thinking at times, "He dumped the OW and stayed. Lucky me!" So if you folks want to check out now, feel free. At this point I'm probably writing to myself because you've all left.

At some point I started a post over in recovery just asking how do I get over the sexual betrayal. There wasn't a lot of replies. Many folks felt like I do. Then yesterday I decided to go over to SYMC to pose a question, just because I was tired of bugging you guys. Pretty many folks viewed my post, but only one answered. OK, 1st thought, "I must really be a pain in the A%%, because no one wants to reply." Yes, I am a pain in the $$$, but I don't think that's the reason. Maybe it's just that in this place post A there isn't a lot to say, or people don't know what to say.

After d-day we BSs are in survival mode. It's all about pulling ouselves out of the deep depression caused by the A trauma, and then forcing ouselves to move beyond the pain to do some heavy duty strategy. This of course is Plan A. SD would say that Plan A is not for the faint of heart. But what happens after Plan A? Or where I seem to be, somewhere between Plan A and wanting to be Plan Aed myself?

I've been wondering why I seemed to have more hope in the beginning of this ordeal. This morning I was thinking how the longer this lingers on, meaning H and I still haven't really found our way back to each other yet, the more I question whether this M can work. Then it hit me. (OK, I'm a little slow.) That's why all the experts say it can take at least 2 yrs. to recover from an A. It's only been 8 months since d-day, and H is barely out of withdrawal. We both want to just be recovered, but that ain't gonna happen. The sad reality is that the man I knew loved and trusted for 26 yrs. shattered me to pieces. He is still like a stranger to me, a strangly familiar stranger. And after 19 yrs. of M H allowed himself to be in-love with OW. Even though he claims he is defogged about her he has told me the A really screwed him up. This 52 yr old man actually believed that there was a woman out there who would love and adore him, meet all his needs, never have any conflict with him, and would accept him totally for himself. And that would go on forever and ever without one problem, with her being the major giver and him just receiving all the lOVE. Of course the "self" OW loved and accepted was a lying, cheating person who he never was before. I guess giving up that perfect fantasy would screw you up.

The other thought I had is that at this point everything is framed by the A. I've been decluttering my office. I find that every receipt, every bill, every card that had 2003 on it caused me to think about where I was emotionally at that time during the A. H took my son to check out colleges and came back yesterday. I went out and got home about 9:30 pm. I was looking forward to seeing him. I walked into the bedroom and he was on the phone and didn't look at me. I felt angry and hurt and LBed him later about it. I've been a good girl and haven't LBed for a while. He was surprised and said he was just trying to concentrate on the call. Pre-A, no big deal. Post-A, it triggered memories. Several times during the A he went away and when he came home was totally indifferent to me.

So what's my point? Maybe that there really isn't a lot of info or encouragement in the phase of getting from Plan A to recovered. I recommended the book "Who Moved MY Cheese" to WOE and we've talked about some of the principles in that book. Basically the cheese is when a change occurs in our lives and we can either move with the change, or wait for everything to just be back where it was. With an A our WSs forced the change on us. There is a maze in this book also. I feel like I'm off the rollercoaster and now in the maze. Kind of like I'm in one of those adventure video games. (I think lack of sleep is getting to me. Suddenly I feel like I'm back in the 70s getting high with my friends, doing some major babble talk.) Anyhoo, I'm in the maze, and I'm just not quite sure how to get to the final destination. I still wonder what that destination is. Will it be a recovered M, or being recovered and not Med.

Well friends, thanks for listening, if any of you actually took the time to read this. Of course if any of you fine folks want to add any thoughts, share your wisdom, I ALWAYS appreciate that. I hope at least one person replies, otherwise I might start thinking I am a pain in the A**.CV

I thought I would reply not because I have any great advice but just to say you are not a pain in the a$$. This is a hard time for all of us. You are further than many of us so you should look at the positive side of this. I think when you get to the point of the FWS recomitting to the marriage there is a huge weight taken off your shoulders and the BS feels like finally after all this work I will get something in return. However, there would seem to be even more work to do now in the stage of the process you are in. Please remember to be patient and that this is a marathon. You've just reached the first water stand. Take your water, but don't forget you still have to keep running.
Take Care
CR

CV, I am only half way though your journey, but I can relate to what you ar saying very much.

I think what happened with me is that my 'fight or flight' adrenaline levels dropped after the hostilities ceased and more congenial interaction began between FWW and myself.

Eager expectancy and surveillance has been replaced with a sort of dull, drizzly sadness that "this is as good as its ever gonna be" - a loveless, passionless 'convenient' alliance between two formerly passionate spouses.

There are no longer great dramas in my story - no more tragically dead OM sons, or vicious fog talk. Just a very very ill MIL, and a FWW coming around very very slowly.

BUT - the good news is :

When I examine my married life today ,thirteen weeks into this mess it is probably better than at any time in the last 2 years except for vacations.

FWW looks deep into my eyes when we talk, she is sharing all kinds of thoughts and dreams with me, she is enjoying spending time with me and withteh family, she is an indulgent mother once more and the kids are starting to trust her again, she is voluntarily removing herself from spending as much time at Karate and has suggested we go to our holiday home in Wales this weekend instead of her attending Karate AND she suggested that we get in a game of Squash together today to make up for the missed exercise.....

So apart fom the utter lack of physical affection, the fact that she will not yet talk about the affair nor make any gesture to me that she is sorry or regretful of the A life has improved immeasurably over the last 2 weeks.

Until she commits to recovery and is prepared to discuss and share uncomfortable stuff, I am continuing plan A although NC is in place.

It is MUCH easier now there is no hostility from her, and also easier as almost all the 'improvements' I started to make 13 weeks ago are now just part of me. They always WERE part of me that I let slip, in truth....

I journal the tiny things - like my FWWs deliberate squeeze of my hand in bed last night, her deliberate brush of me with her hand this morning upon leaving to go shopping, several other small things and together they look pretty impressively like a FWW coming out of the fog and withdrawal and looking around at the devastation left in the wake of her affair. And, just like Plan A predicts, the ONE welcoming place is here in my life, where there is calm, welcome, love , non-judgmental conversation and hope.

Plan A SO makes sense from where I'm standing now I wish I could bottle it and pass to some of our newer MBers who are so desperately unsure.

Just like you the demon of sexual betrayal taps me on the shoulder in the night and throws pictures of grunting and sweating people into my mind, but I just pray instead. I dunno if I'll ever get over that TBH...But I'll try because I love her. Besides which, God has worked so manifestly in my situation so far, I can trust Him to fix my attitude to it.

CV, you have done great, though a personal review of tactics may be useful for you. I am reading recovery books voraciously right now - I have concentrated for so long on killing the affair that I had not really prepared myself for recovery. Its clear a different strategy can/must be used for a sentient FWS no longer in the fog.

I think you can breathe, pat yourself on the back for a superhuman plan A and think about how behaviours must change to acelerate recovery.

You are doing just fine.

All blessings CV {{{{{cv}}}}}

CV
You have a real knack of putting into words so many of the feelings that I have felt on the recovery road. The incident with the phonecall is a perfect example. You are so right. Before A something like that would not have fazed me, post A any perceived lack of interest or minor rejection seems to jolt me. I had the hardest time overcoming this in myself.

You seem to have come a long way since last I posted to you. Glad to here you are still at it. Like I have said to you before. It is a lot like grieving and each of the stages that I outlined to you before will probably occur. It is a long process and knowing it takes time does help. Trying to rush it won't help.

Like I have said, I really admire that you really take notice of your feelings and think about them and work through them. I think this is much healthier than trying to suppress them.

Alot of my recovery has not even been about my relationship with my H. Of course that is a major part of it. But a lot of it has been about recovering myself. I was so utterly shattered that I had to pick up all the little pieces of me, think hard about them and put them all back together again in a new way. I like the new me.

Anyway keep on and hugs
C&S

I'm so glad you three replied. Now I don't feel like the annoying MBer that no one wants to talk to. Just kidding! My MB buddies have always been good to me.

CR, on the outside I appear pretty patient. I think H is always a bit surprised when I let him in on my discontent. Last week he was laid out on the couch with me, watching TV, with his head on my lap. Of course me, the giver, was rubbing his head. Granted I'm not a mind reader, but I was pretty certain the A was not on his mind. In fact I had the thought that he felt pretty comfortable being back home emotionally and would probably like to proceed like the A never occurred. Moi, on the other hand, has this A running through my head quite often during the day. What I'm trying to say is internally patience doesn't seem to be my strong point. So it's good to be reminded that this is a marathon. Maybe I need some new running shoes! Thanks!

Bob, your story is nothing short of miraculous. You truly can be called one of the masters of Plan A. All of the stories here on MB will beat any soap opera, but your story had a particularly large amount of drama in it. I kind of looked forward to all the new twists and turns that were happening on a daily basis. No offense intended. I am very glad life is better for you now, and that your W is showing signs of affection and showing love to your kids again. I am continually amazed at what these As do to the WS and the devestation they cause to the family. Last year H became a pretty uninvolved father. He was too busy reliving his own adolescence. now he seems to have resumed his dad role full force.

I have too much pride and desire to settle for a "this is as good as its ever gonna be" M. Before the crises hit our lives we were in a good place in our M. When H was in the A I of course saw him dismantle everything we had learned and gained in our lives together. When I was seriously making plans to leave the M in Dec. and Jan it was because I was not going to live like this after experiencing a good M. Well now I need it to eventually be better than the good place we were at. Because that place wasn't good enough to ward off a predator and keep H from allowing the A to happen. My question to me is how long do I give this before we either rediscover the love, friendship, and passion or I realize the A brought too much poison into our R? Don't know the answer to that question yet.

Bob, if you figure out how to heal from the sexual betrayal let me know.

C&S, you're one of the people here who when I look at what you went through I think why am I complaining? I can't even comprehend recovering from a longterm A and having it be with a friend. You must have a great capacity for love and forgiveness. Maybe I've already told you that.

I learned a long time ago that it doesn't do any good suppressing feelings. I don't want to get stuck in them, but I can't deny them either. I'm glad you understand that. Sometimes I wonder if when I express my feelings on MB people might confuse that with how I'm behaving, which isn't the case. Does that make sense?

I had a very strong sense of self before the A. In many ways I still do. Yet the A shatters us just the same. I'm realizing I might need to find another IC. It just doesn't seem to be helping me put the pieces back together. Or maybe H and I are getting to the point of starting MC. If you can point me out to those stages again I'd appreciate it. Thanks all! CV

I learned a long time ago that it doesn't do any good suppressing feelings. I don't want to get stuck in them, but I can't deny them either. I'm glad you understand that. Sometimes I wonder if when I express my feelings on MB people might confuse that with how I'm behaving, which isn't the case. Does that make sense?


Hi CV, No women you are not a pain , I find you to be one strong and funny person. Since the time you came on board I have read and posted to you .

I love the humor you find and felt I conect with it as well , and the LB you often had in the beging was well a PART of how I was .

I copyed the statement above that you said, cause thats exactly how I feel you always should remain . I am a firm believer in the not dening yourself anything to be heard (make sense)

I understand learning the PLAN A way of communicating is well VERY HARD !

Also I read your post on the SEX thing , I couldn't replie , I have felt those things myself and still do . PA part of the A .

Also about these stages of recovery , JMO , they are hard to post about cause when it comes to recovery this hole thing kind of goes in a different derection for everyone ,,, again JMO .

Why more hope in the beging of it all ? Well honey , we the BS are just plain TIRED!ya know , and wow how much can a GIVER GIVE without being REFUELED <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And also over analizing (spell check) wow can that be a BIG stage ,, wondering second guessing ..

I often wish (still do sometimes) that there was ONE breath I could in hale all this in and REALLY EXHALE it all OUT , out of my mind my life my very solo .

There is a strange time when , it comes over you that the A is gone , I do not mean forgotten , BUT GONE .

I am trying like he11 to get there as well , and I am 7 months more down the recovey road LOL

DON"t go thinking OH CRAP that much longer , LOL it does become different , the nights you can go to sleep and relize you woke up and didn't fall asleep to it .

In recovery comes fear , alot of it .

DID we do the right thing ?
Is it worth it ?
Will the M ever be WONDERFUL ?

YOU get where I am going , each step ,each walk , each run , will answer all that and more as we learn to relax and live life as we should .

Calmly , healthy, peacefully , and with value .


As we come to understand that all is good and we need to allow uourselfs to let the GOOD over shadow the MISTAKES and the BUMPS we have endured .

well I rambled enough !

Don't even know if this is anything to ya , but I hope so .

3

<small>[ September 24, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

CV: Thanks for your post. I've been thinking lately that this isn't the rollercoaster I had been used to, but it didn't seem like it had gone away either. Your analogy with the maze seems to fit right in for me right now. Thanks again.

And, no, you're not a pain in the A$$.

Take care,
R

CV,

Just wanted you to know that I haven't forgotten about you. I've mostly been lurking & when I go to post to you, someone has already answered you a lot better than I could have probably.

I seem to be in the middle of where you're at. I posted a thread over on Prayer Request (which is where I usually hang out) but didn't get one response, which is highly unusual for my friends over there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

So sometimes I feel like a pain in the a$$ too. I just think so many people have so many things going on that either they're spending time w/their S & don't get to post too much or feel lost same as everybody else & really don't know what to say.

You mentioned being plan A'd yourself. That's interesting to me b/c I think we were exploring at one time how your H could show you he loves you & show you he's committed to making this M work. I know deep down you know he is, but I still get the feeling that you're questioning Is he worth it after what he's done to me. Believe me, I've been feeling that way a lot lately and my H's been showing me lots of love, so you're not alone in this. I think every S goes through it at one time or another. That initial, How could he (or she, sorry guys) do this to me? phase takes a while to process & I think we fade in and out of it every so often & sometimes linger there, unsure of how to move past it.

I had mentioned a book to you -- The Five Love Languages . Did you purchase your copy yet or can you get it somehow? I can lend you mine if you need it. I think also what's holding you back is maybe, a lack of respect for your H at this point perhaps? Not sure if I'm on track here. It took a lot of searching to find reasons to respect my H after all that I went through but I did find things that I could show him respect on or thank him for & in turn, he started to reciprocate by showing me love. And now, we're finally in that cycle of him loving me & me respecting him. If you don't know what I'm referring to, go to this website - Love and Respect . It really helped me see things a little bit more clearer. Now, on to the love languages.

If you could pinpoint exactly what your H could do to show you that he loves you & have it stick w/you, what would it be?

1) Quality Time - Take you to a concert, go for a walk, etc.
2) Physical Touch - Touching the small of your back, Holding hands, lovemaking, kisses, hugs
3) Acts of Service - Clean up the house w/o being asked, making you breakfast in bed
4) Words of Affection - Hearing ILY, telling you that you're pretty, that he's glad to work things out w/you
5) Receiving gifts - Buying you presents (no matter how small), writing you a love note, being in your presence (taking the entire day to spend w/YOU)

If you can answer that, then we have a basis to start on. This goes along w/top 5 ENs but it's the HOW those needs are filled that this concept puts its basis on. It has really helped me focus on the good qualities my H has & that his thoughts are refocusing to me & our M instead of the A & the betrayal. I'm still struggling w/it and if you look at my post you'd see that, but after 1 yr d-day hits (I hate to call it an anniversary - there's nothing to celebrate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ), I think my triggers will slow down a bit & I'll be able to re-focus again.

Sorry you're still having such a rough time w/your emotions. That's why they call it a rollercoaster I'm afraid. My thoughts are w/you.

Love in Christ,
Y

(((((CV))))))

We are all there with you, and those who aren't are probably wishing they were...aint that a kick in the shins? I drift from the mindset of "What did I save anyway?" to "The Future Can Be Bright" to "OK Welcome Back, Time for you to Plan A Me!". You are not alone. I can't offer direct advice because I'm going through some of the same things and since I haven't traveled the lenght of the Infidelity Rapids and Came out the otherside, all I can offer is my own experiences and what been working for me. It's all a PROCESS: a natural phenomenon marked by gradual changes that lead toward a particular result <the process of growth> (2) : a natural continuing activity or function <such life processes as breathing> b : a series of actions or operations conducing to an end;

The Plan A, the Plan B, the Withdrawal, the recovery and beyond. I have realized that most of my frustration is not my W per se, but my instinctive need to rush the process. This is a process that cannot be rushed. No matter how much I need it to rush, no matter how tired I've become, my W's acceptance, realization and pure utter regret for her actions will come in HER TIME. My W belongs to herself and her roads journey is hers alone, I may try to effect that journey, motivate and influence because SHE invited me on her journey as I invited her onto mine, but the bottom-line is, there are things she must experience, learn, suffer, endure, overcome and transcend. On my good days, I put things in perspective and relish in the fact she's home, with no obvious contact with OM, she smiles, she says kind words, she seems happy...I can exhale a little, On my bad days, I feel frustrated, wish that she would do more to assure me, inspect her for signs of indifference, lack of assistance in restoring our bond...of course the bad days stick out. You are not alone. I put so much focus on getting the A to end and to get my wife to return home that until the last disappearance I hadn't learned that ...this is a process, it must run its course. I have my own process, sometimes the BS forgets there are processes for us to. If we could start a forum for WS dealing with their BS's then I'm sure it would include our triggers, frustration, impatience, pulling, occassional LB's and grace thus causeing them immense GUILT.

What am I saying? I'm saying, YES you are so right! I agree with you 1000% and I feel your pain, but to all of your frustations, pain, anger, emotions, exhaustion, heart palpitations, emotional mood swings induced my triggers...I ask ONE question:

Do you want to be right or be married?

And if you answer the same as I do MOST of the time, then you HANG on like I do, you hang onto the REALITY that you did all that you've done for a reason, you hang on to the fact that we would hope that if the positions were reversed that our spouses would hang in there for US, we hang on because we know this is a process and we've done a darn good job and fought a hard, painful fight and we can't QUIT NOW!

Hang in there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

CV: I am responding although I have zero wisdom to share about where you are emotionally (because, as you know, I have not even sniffed recovery).

Not to sound too Jesus Freaky...but maybe some of the solace, support, answers, ability to exhibit and FEEL true forgiveness, and reciprocation that your soul is starving for cannot come from your FWH. Maybe it is that God-sized hole in your heart that only He can fill. Maybe it is a hole in your heart that your FWH ripped through, but God can so adeptly fill and heal it, with or without your FWH getting the hint to do the same.

I do not know any of the answers. Just want you to know I am so sorry for your pain and frustration, and wanted to show you my support.

And defeat that whole you are a pain in the @SS premise! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I once again have to say what I've said about once a month since joining this MB site. Besides the A depression weight loss diet, the other great thing that came out of this A was getting to know all of you MB friends. There is a true bond that comes with shared experiences. Maybe going through HS or college with friends. Maybe the time we start having kids and share that common experience. However, let's face it, this A experience is like no other. The only people who could possible understand it are people who have been through it. The only folks who can give us a clue how the alien mind works, is a former alien. If this MB site isn't a bonding experience I don't know what is. One year ago I couldn't have comprehended why anyone would even stay with a S who had an A. One year ago if you would have told me I'd be talking about the most personal subjects with strangers I'd say, "Yeh right!" If you would have told me that I'd be discussing my sex life with my "male internet friends" I would have LOL. What a difference a year makes!

3, thanks for what you wrote. As I told you recently, I think I'm at the frustration point you were at several months ago. You are like me in that you just say how you feel. Why fake it? I do need to notice the good more. Maybe when I officially move from disbelief to acceptance that will happen.

R, glad the maze analogy worked for you. This place so far is different than the rollercoaster. If you haven't read "Who Moved my Cheese" pick it up. I've recommended it to all my clients and to my surprise they have all read it. It is a great little book about change.

Standing, you're right that I'm still scratching my head and wondering how H could have not only done this to me, but been such an idiot. Sorry, that's the only word I can think of. I will check out the respect site. I don't dwell on it, but I know I lost respect. H read the love language book. When I finally finish "Not Just Friends" I will read that. It's clear to me what I need. At some point I will need the ILYs to happen. He is showing me love and acts like he wants to be with me. Yet the ILYs are still absent. At some point that will need to return. Also other acts of affection.

Concerning the anniversary of d-day being nothing to celebrate. Yep, I don't think that day will ever be something we will look back on with fond memories. Thanks for your thoughtful response.

FM, thanks for your wise words. I need to start chanting "patience" as my daily mantra. As far as being "invited" on this journey, honey, this a journey I wish I wasn't invited on. In fact if I had been invited I would have declined the invite.

Do I want to be right or married? HMMMMM! I know I don't care about being right, but do I want to be Med? I guess I wouldn't be going through this crappola if I didn't want to be. My boys have been a big motivator also. I'll continue to hang on, if you guys don't mind my streaks of venting.

DipiT, no you are not too "Jesus Freaky". I absolutely know that the only way our M will heal, or me personally, is through God's help. Thanks for posting since I know how you've been hurting but for different reasons. You know what I think of you. Keep that humor girl!

Thanks to all for reassuring me I'm not a pain in the A**. CV

Hey CV, Your opening satement again is right on about sharing this with MB .

I thought I give ya a heads up , you may be moving in to the acceptance stage , thats why you might me going over all these last thoughts cause acceptance is FEAR , of letting the gaurd down .

Entering into the world of trust , catch my drift . And yet we are the "say" it type people.

Thats been my latest thing I tryed to hold something into to move past it and now well it bottled and I POPPED !

What a step backward I am have this weekend , lets just say my FRIDAY night went right back to a year ago ... WOW does it suck some times ..

and MY FAMOUS answer to the question : DO YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT OR MARRIED IS :

HELL I KNOW I AM RIGHT NOW I JUST WANT TO BE MARRIED LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BE well women !

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
<strong> Hey CV, Your opening satement again is right on about sharing this with MB .

I thought I give ya a heads up , you may be moving in to the acceptance stage , thats why you might me going over all these last thoughts cause acceptance is FEAR , of letting the gaurd down .

Entering into the world of trust , catch my drift . And yet we are the "say" it type people.

Thats been my latest thing I tryed to hold something into to move past it and now well it bottled and I POPPED !

What a step backward I am have this weekend , lets just say my FRIDAY night went right back to a year ago ... WOW does it suck some times ..

and MY FAMOUS answer to the question : DO YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT OR MARRIED IS :

HELL I KNOW I AM RIGHT NOW I JUST WANT TO BE MARRIED LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BE well women ! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3isA you always make me smile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

CV, the one thing that jumps out is the 8 months post D-day. This really is to be expected and you are starting to realize this with your 2 year comment. If you go back through your journal and look at where you were at various times you will see just how much you have progressed. Yes, you still probably have to do this journey alone for the most part, but eventually H will give more. You do it for you. And even the PA part of this will get easier for you to put in perspective. From my side I think you give that too much credibility. A man can have sex a lot easier than a woman and have it mean little. I know this was not a ONS but try to seperate the PA from EA and you will see what your H is telling you is the truth. It is the EA that was the driving force and that is certainly not something he sought out. He got bit and not with cupid's arrow. Just a very poor decision that he found difficult to get out of. And finally being a pain in the [censored] is what get's us healed. To simply roll over and act like it's no big deal, as my W would hope I would do, is not a viable solution. Keep being a PIA (as we say at home). Take care. WOE

CV, I recently felt a sharp pain in both my buttocks, and knew right then I had to return to MB to look for your post!!! LOL !!! I hope you know I'm kidding you, of course!!!

Now, to address your question...

I have come to the conclusion that recovery from an A, is much like a mouthfull of Pop-Rocks, and no spit!

It's a difficult place to be.

WS's have all the excitement of a new R, hot, passionate sex, thoughts of the A partner swimming in their heads like the 6th shot of tequilia, guilt and secrecy combining for a head rush we, the BS's can only imagine.

We BS's are completely devastated. I am convinced to this day a WS has NO IDEA of the mental wreckage they cause to a marriage partner. NO CLUE! I also believe it takes a WS a considerable amount of self-analysis before they realize how much damage they've DONE TO THEMSELVES. I also believe, that it's simply a continuation of the SELFISHNESS that led them into the affair, that they bask in afterwards; ie, they still don't feel ANYTHING THE BS FEELS, they only feel their own shame, remorse, sorrow, etc. And their first (and continuing) reaction to their OWN feelings is to shut up, not express or converse about them, and MOVE-ON!!!

I have read so many of the threads here, regarding recovery, and how often this is the theme.

On the other hand, we have so many damaged souls, the BS's here, that want MORE. We want the PASSION, the HEAT, the HOT SEX (alright, lovemaking), the THRILL of being in love, but not with an OP, we want the passion of the WS's A in our MARRIAGE. We WANT a partner who'll take risks to be passionate. We want a partner who'll meet our EN's, we want a partner who'll call us and "tease" or "titillate" us three, four or five times a day. We want a partner who'll be there to make us feel great, whenever we can "sneak" some moments together.

Where is THAT spouse? Too often that spouse is right back into pre-A routines, wondering what all the fuss is about.

And your question about how to get through all of this... I wish I knew. All I can say is that I continue to meet as many of my FWW's EN's as possible, and continue to be the better ME that Plan A called for, and I responded with "bells on", if you will!

It keeps getting better, but it's so agonizingly slow sometimes. The looks, that actions, the feelings I receive from FWW are ever on the increase, but still often not enough to make me feel like it has been worth ALL THE EFFORT AND PAIN, to get JUST to this point. What does it take to get past this? I guess more PMA, more Plan A (lifetime version), more patience, and, perhaps most importantly, "letting go" of the thoughts that our M will ever have the "passion" that I've convinced myself existed in FWW's affair.

That sucks, it makes me feel cheated, it makes me sad, it makes me angry.

It's a mouth full of Pop-Rocks, and no spit!

SD

PS: sorry for the "downer" post, but sometimes my patience is tested to the limit in this process. CV, you WILL be a winner in all of this.

<small>[ September 26, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

Thanks WOE! Concerning me giving the PA too much credibility these are my thoughts. H himself told me, through my PIA questioning, that sex with OW was good. Not only good, but passionate, with all the ILYs, kissing, and probably eye gazing going on. So unfortunately, maybe the A was driven by the EA part, but the PA was an expression of that. Not to mention the fact that I was missing sex that whole time. So the thought of it still makes me quite sick. I may have told you this, but I'm not sure. Over the past week or so we have had to go the the funeral home at night because H had to do something there. One night I waited in the car and found myself just staring at H's office, thinking about what went on there for months. Yesterday we stopped there and similar thoughts hit me, and I had been fine all day. As time goes on I'm more disgusted by what occurred there. I am coming to the conclusion that H and I are going to have to go there one night and deal with this. I know it sounds bizarre, but I think it might help me exorcise the whole thing. Maybe I can get a priest to meet us there. Just Kidding!

SD, I just love it when you come out of lurkdom. You are one of my bestest MB buddies you know. I would hate it if you were gone forever. After reading your post I came to the conclusion that we definitely knew each other in a past life. Like maybe we were identical twins or something. Why do I say that? I think because I so get your analogies, and somehow I get the feeling we think alike. Except for the fact that you are a way better MBer than me.

Speaking of analogies, the pop rock one cracked me up. Concerning the rest of what you wrote, it is exactly how I feel. You know it's the whole in-love A thing that has bummed me out the most. One thing that doea convince me of the fog is that if they were so darn IN-LOVE, why does he barely think about her now? Granted I still have my guard up. I realize if he saw her maybe all those feelings would come flouding back. However, he went from wanting to call her "every minute of every day" to apparently not wanting to talk to her. Shows what a fantasy these As are.

Concerning sex, it doesn't have to be of the lovemaking variety all the time. Casual and fun is fine by me. However, I do need the in-love variety every so often. You know, throw in a few ILYs, just to make me feel loved. Speaking of ILYs, H graced me with an ILY this morning. Wow, this must be progress!

SD, don't apologize to me about your "downer" post. C'mon, I'm the queen of the downer posts. I know you feel cheated, and so do I. Don't give up on experiencing the passion with your W. As in fantasy land as my H was, I think he knows now he would have been miserable with the "B". Several times during this ordeal I mentioned to H something about me being a passionate woman. He looked at me and said something like, "You're passionate?" My thoughts, "Well, I might not be the needy, begging, I can't live without you ("We share the same moon, sun, and stars") passionate of OW. However buddy, this woman, your W, is pretty friggin passionate. Too bad you don't know that." I do see H continuing to defog. Hopefully your W will too. Is she still in IC? I think that and MC will help you both in this area. But what the HE$$ do I know?

Thanks again WOE and SD. You guys are the greatest! Someday your Ws will know that! CV

Hey CV. Sorry to have not posted to you in a while - I have been following this thread as a lurker. To be honest, now that the A isn't cluttering up my head 24/7, I have found other things to occupy my time, and I go for days sometimes without coming here. I do still love everyone here, but I think I am in a natural ebb and flow of things.

Anyway, I remember once Confused and Scared told me that around her 8 month mark, she had major blues about the A, major questions. I do think this is a very hard part of recovery. As SD says, it is not for the faint of heart. Or the weak of stomach, or something like that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And he is right.

BUT, I have to tell you that I am coming out on the other side of that, and it is wonderful. If this entire Recovery deal is a process, you could be slightly behind me, and when you catch up, I want to share with you what you might expect.

First, I am able to think of the HW in a totally different way now - something only time could give me. For instance, I used to think of her and my heart would drop, my pulse race, and I would think over and over, "How could she? How could he? How? Why?" And I would feel personally attacked, victimized, abused, exposed, and even that she had bettered me in some way - that she was better than me!!!

And lately, I think of her, or see her (saw her last night at the kid's soccer game), and I just feel compassion for her. Not that I want to be her friend again, but sorry for her, the friendship she threw away, the fact that she makes herself available to men in a way that she cannot receive anything substantial back. And I realize that the pain her actions caused me were just a by-product of her self-inflicted pain. It is the price I paid being near someone who is not healthy in her heart or mind.

The whole aspect of everything has taken on a different perspective for me. I no longer think of H and her being physical, and when it does pop into my head, I can easily dismiss it. I think time alone heals the sexual betrayal, the emotional betrayal. As time goes on, I don't think your H will remember the sex as all that. Everything will be different to him, as his mind and heart clears.

I think you have the faith to give your M the time it needs to heal. As the book "Torn Assunder" says, the length of the A, the emotional attachment, determines how long the recovery process will take.

I know where you are at right now sucks, because I have been there. And I am here to tell you that it can become wonderful.

Have you read Ice Princess's post on the Recovery board regarding MC? I honestly cannot think of a single other instance that could have propelled my H and I to the point of WANTING to learn about M, and how to respect and honor each other. I know you and H were in MC before, and you thought you were in a really great spot. And that sucks, to feel like you thought one thing and your S thought another. I didn't think my H would EVER leave me. No matter how bad it got, I believed 100% that he was committed to staying M'd to me for forever. And I was wrong.

M is a choice. One of the hardest things I have had to accept personally (NOT meaning this about you or anyone else - just me) is that at any moment, H can choose out of our M. Or I could. I used to think we were in a binding agreement. We aren't, really. When I want reassurance, I ask H, "Do you love me today? Do you want to be M'd to me today?" And he says yes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And that makes me feel so happy.

Please do not underestimate the healing power of time. I think that is what your M needs. And you might realize after some time that you cannot go on in your M. That is your choice. And it is OK. It doesn't mean you are a bad person, that you are inadequate - and you know that.

BUT, what you can create with this man, after what you have been through, is more (IMVHO) than you could create with another. The potential, the possibility is there. Where are you two at with MC? Are you talking about it, or still just with the ICs? I'm just curious. I know you will know the right time, if and when it comes.

You are very smart, very wonderful and special. You are going to be just fine, either way. When you go to sleep next, please remember that and rest easy. We are all going to be just fine. Because we all have each other.

Love you, girlfriend! Still can't wait to drink wine with you . . .

SS

CV, when you joined my story it was pretty much me checking W's cell bill and complaining on this forum. But you missed about 18 mos. During those times I followed her to pool, drove to OM trailer park, retraced and retraced every place they had been together including the evening of ONS. So I can totally related to you sitting outside the funeral home and having a tough time. Time will heal this and I do think it a very good idea to reclaim this site (without the priest) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . You are making good progress and I really don't think this has to be a life sentence. It is encouraging to read Spiders message of hope. I do agree with SD about how the WS doesn't get our pain but by the same token I am reminded of the mirror mirror post where a WS said it's true that she can't even face herself. I don't know if your husband harbours that much guilt and he shouldn't. I don't thinks that's healthy. But he does need to continue to be open to you. And it sounds like he's doing an OK job. I really can't offer anything useful about the EA/PA aspects but just want to assure you that what you are going through seems like standard fare for the BS. WOE

Hey all! Check WOE's "I finally blew" post here in GQII.

It's a heartwarmer!!

SD

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

CV, see how many posts and no one even needed ,,

"TUCKS" LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />