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Glad I left yesterday in a 'controlled' state thanks to all of you.
I will keep it short:
We talked for nearly 4 hours last night. I think you all would have been amazed at my composure, I sure am and I think WW is too.
The conversation went through various phases where it seemed at times that we were connecting, then other times when she would get defensive and I would LB (only a teeny bit) OM kept calling all night...
Anyway, I believe we made some progress.
At one point, she had said that she was too worn out and too committed with her business, our son, her new house etc, etc, that she didn't have it in her to work on our relationship. Love is not important enough. I asked her, what do you mean my work, give me a specific example of what you mean by work. She was quiet for a very long time, then she said "well, I guess it would all be fun stuff..."
I saw my chance. So we talked about OM, I mentioned that everything is so good with him, that they are passionate when they are together, that he makes her feel so good when she is around him, etc. etc. She replied telling me that I don't know what is going on. They aren't all good, they have issues and that Wed she called him and told him that it is over. (He came over to her house anyway and they did their thing...)
She said that she could just "switch him off" which I responded by telling her I would love to believe that but I don't.
Anyway, she kept drudging up the past, hurtful things I had said. I told her that the past is passed. I asked her if she trusted that I was sorry, I asked her if she believed that I wanted to fix my issues after she said yes, I asked her if we can put the past behind us and work on the present. She said she didn't want to live in the past anymore. (she still tried to dredge it up later to use against me, but I reminded her that we had put that behind us for now.)
Well, alot more, but I wanted to give you the main points.
She asked me what I needed and I told her that I needed her to leave him, not so I can move in that night, but so we could have a fair chance to begin to even decide if that is possible.
I asked her what she needed. She replied "nothing" She knows that I love her, am sorry and she trusts that I am changing my bahaviors.
She asked me if I still wanted to be married. She asked me if I would be around when she ended it with him. I asked her if that takes a day a month or a year. She wouldn't answer. She said that we should not talk until she leaves him... I guess it was my idea right? I mentioned that I was not able to prove to her that I am getting my LB's under control, that I couldn't show her that I can be there for her etc etc. She just said that she trusts me, she knows that I love her and she knows that I will change........
Finally, ok, so I leave, drive around the block and LB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I said to her that I know what she is doing, she is just buying time to be with him and that is why she want's to distance us. That she is manipulating me. I asked her if she was going to call him tomorrow and she said yes, so I said, "oh, you'll talk to him, but you don't want to talk to me"
She said that she didn't say what she was going to talk to him about. She said that I need to trust her. --- She did not say that she was going to end it with him --- She said that if I am being manipulated, there is nothing that can be done on the front end, and people don't know they have been manipulated until the manipulation is over (???????)
Anyway, I have this optimistic confidence, yet I know that it will come crashing down.
I think we made some good progress last night. I was definitely not the same me. In fact, towards the end I asked her if I angered her, or if I came off as judgmental or preachy. She said no, it was a good conversation.
Please say a quick prayer for her.
Thanks everybody, sorry this was so long
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oh BTW, when I got there, the first thing she did was show me these two books she had bought about affairs in marriages!!
You all showed me the beginning of Plan A, but what to do now?
I guess back off, no pressure, let the seeds that were sown grow...
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Your W seems very receptive to the idea of reconciliation. What books did she buy? Has she started to read them? Maybe you could suggest that you both read them together as a way to get an understanding of the A. This could also be a way to continue contact and the possibility of you plan Aing. Just a thought. Good Luck CR
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thatsall: <strong> oh BTW, when I got there, the first thing she did was show me these two books she had bought about affairs in marriages!!
You all showed me the beginning of Plan A, but what to do now?
I guess back off, no pressure, let the seeds that were sown grow... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A your butt off, that's what you do. I Plan A'd until I could plan A no more, then I plan a'd a little more after that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Exposure? Have you exposed her A to the people that matter? Where is your son staying?
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Keep planting seeds You are doing well. I wouldn't recommend talking too much about the A. I'm sure some real experts will be by soon and explain better than I can. But IMHO you should not focus on the A very much just let her know that it is disrespectful and hurtful to you and that is all you need to let her know.
Good Luck and Take Care. And check out my link to Ark^^'s Plan A advice. It is the best post on Plan A I have seen.
C.
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Here is something that just might help you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From the Affair and Stop it NOW!
By Dr. Robert Huizenga
1) Act Happy. Be as cheerful as possible. Be positive. Put on this behavior when you have contact with your spouse. Prepare yourself to act this way. Practice if need be. Be an actor, actress if need be. Fake it, if you must. Fake it til you truly do get to the point where you experience your life as positive. (It really is, you know!)
2) Get a life. Rekindle old hobbies or interests that you have discarded but still interest you. Try out new hobbies or interests. Think about what you really liked doing when you were 6 years old. Start doing that. (One coaching client "gave up dancing", which was a passion, for her family and husband. Once she discovered his affair, she took it up again. She loved it. It was therapeutic. But, boy did he have a problem with it!).
3) Focus on 4 key words. Every day, every hour and every minute if need be, plaster your mind with these 4 life-saving words: I WILL MAKE IT! This becomes your mantra. Wake up with it. Put it on your mirror. Eat lunch with it. Go to sleep with it. Tell, convey in every which way to your spouse that you WILL MAKE IT. Say, �I will make it! I prefer to make it with you (if that is what you REALLY want), but if that doesn�t happen, I will make it without you. Either way, I want you to know that I will make it.� State with erect, confident body language, unblinking, direct eye contact and calm, firm, consistent tone of voice.
4) To-the-point small talk. Make conversations with your spouse brief and to the point. Talk only about the solutions to specific problems that need to be addressed, such a particular bills, household or children concerns. Let silence prevail if he/she wants to �hook� you into melodrama. Politely but firmly end such conversations.
5) Tend to agree. Try to find the kernal of truth in what your spouse is saying and agree with it. Acknowledge it. He/she says, �I don�t love you anymore.� You say, �It certainly seems that way. Thank you for your truthfulness.� He/she says, �I�m not sure what I want.� You say, �Yes, it must be confusing for you.� He/she says, �I�m thinking of moving out.� You say, �Do you have an idea of when you�re going to do that? Knowing would help me plan for my activites.�
6) Expand your social relationships, including those of the OPPOSITE SEX. Make new friends. Go to lunch. Surround yourself with interesting people who have the potential to care about you. Rekindle old friendships that have faded. With the opposite sex? Yes! I�m not talking about a revenge affair or sleeping with somone.I�m not talking about dating. I�m talking about being friends and learning about you and how you relate, especially to those of the opposite sex.
7) Get sexy � in a healthy way. Get in shape. Lose weight. Run. Walk. Exercise. Eat right. Enjoy your body. Take supplements. Take extreme care of your body. Begin to feel healthy�and healthy is sexy.
Focus on one of these tactics and begin now. Don�t wait.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CAUTION: I would be extremely careful on point 6 for it is so easy that a vulnerable BS, such as yourself, fall into an EA [which could develop into a full blown affair] with a member of the opposite sex. You can avoid this by setting up boundaries that you will not violate, such as no confiding to a member of the opposite sex [other than your spouse] about your personal life and no spending time alone with an attractive member of the opposite sex. The last thing you want is to have an affair of your own and make the saving and rebuilding of your marriage practically impossible. <small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>
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Great!!
The first thing you need to do now though.....is quit talking about the OM with her. You don't want her thinking about him when she is with you. Not a peep about him. Don't ask if she talked to him...what she talked to him about....or anything else about him. Make him none of your business. You already know she talks to him and sees him....so there is no reason to talk about him. He's not worth your time.
Don't talk about the A at all......talk about the 2 of you....your relationship.
I know...in doing this that it looks like she will be getting her cake and eating it too.....but she will be seeing the changes that you are going through....and by not mentioning the OM or the A.....she will be focusing on you only at that time.
No pressure.....just use the time that you talk to show her the changes that you are making. Make her feel safe to talk to you about anything.....without you blowing up....even if she happens to bring up the OM. Just be her friend.
There is no quick fix. You have to go through the motions.....emotions....and the roller coaster ride to get to the finish.
Edited to add.......
Don't point out your changes to her....let her see them herself. If you are pointing them out to her then she may think that you are looking for praise at making these changes......makes some BS's look needy. <small>[ September 24, 2004, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Miss Priss ]</small>
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Here is something for you to consider as well:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tactics Most People Use to Prolong the Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery. by Dr. Robert Huizenga
1) Say “I love you”
Saying “I love you,” especially repeatedly, often pushes your spouse away and in essence, probably does not reflect the truth of what you really want to say. What does it mean to say, “I love you?” especially at this juncture in your relationship? Do you know? Does he/she? The words “I love you” are powerful in the beginning stages of a relationship where they match the underlying powerful feelings of attraction. “I love you then” means:
I’m attracted to you. I want to be with you. I experience good feelings when I am with you or think about you. Or, the words are powerful later in the relationship when special occassions recall the feelings that brought you together or when the stability of the relationship is temporarily threated and you express your commitment to your spouse. But, when in the midst of dealing with an affair, using the words “I love you” are inadequate and in reality, poor communication. They do not express what you really want to say. Nor does your spouse, who is allegedly “in love” with another person, know what to do with that statement. Here are ways your spouse might respond internally when he hears those words from you:
• Yeah right! What does he/she want now? He's/She’s just saying that so I won’t leave. Or, he's/she’s just saying that so I will leave the other man/woman. He's/She’s using that to manipulate me. So, I will walk away or not say anything. • He/She loves ME? Yeah right! How can he/she love me when I do something like this. It doesn’t make sense. Who would love someone who fools around on them. If he/she fooled around on me, I know I wouldn’t love him/her. • Hey, this is cool! I got two of them wanting me. Man, it feels great to be pursued by two people. It is great to be loved by two people. (This may not be acknowledged but it might lie behind a need to continue the soap opera drama.) • He/She loves me? What is the world does that mean? What is he/she trying to say when he/she says that? I don’t understand. Is that all he/she can say? Isn’t there more he/she needs to say to me. How am I to respond? Say “I love you too?” Geezzz, it’s not that simple. • I hate it when he/she says “I love you.” That really makes him/her unattractive. He/She seems so sickingly needy when he/she says that. And, that really turns me off. When he/she says it, I think of a whining lost little boy/girl who needs reassurance. Sorry, but I’m not there. I don’t want to be a father/mother.
What are you really saying? Here are some possibilities. Do any fit? • “I love you” means I need you. My life is incomplete or insufficient without you. I have little clue of who I am outside of you and I need you to define who I am. I cannot think of having a life of my own. • “I love you” means don’t leave me. I’m afraid of life on my own. I am terrified of what might happen. Tell me you love me, that you will be there for me so I don’t have to think of making my own way. Calm my fears, because I’m not sure I can. • “I love you” means I’m a whimp. I don’t want to rock the boat. I don’t want to really confront you with what I’m really thinking and feelilng. I don’t want to take a stand and say ENOUGH. I will tolerate almost anything. • “I love you” means I’m sad. It feels sad to see the relationship and dreams crumble. It’s sad to feel the distance, mistrust, pain and agony. It’s sad to think of that which might never happen. It’s sad to think of maybe not growing old with you. • “I love you” means I remember with loving feelings who you were and who I was. I remember who we were. I remember the good times. I remember the way it used to be. I remember what it was like to love and be there for each other. I miss that. I love those memories and maybe, that’s all they are.
2) Criticize, complain, whine, nag.
This should be fairly obvious. Criticizing, complaining, whining and nagging are not attractive! Who wants to be around such a person? When I criticize or complain I have a hard time being around myself.
This behavior is usually an attempt to deal with the internal tension you feel. You don’t know where to go with the tension, so it seeps out around the edges. Something your spouse says or does, and it doesn’t have to be major, will trigger the tension and you spit out the negativity. You may be unaware that it is happening, since it probably is a fairly long standing habit. And, of course, your spouse will respond in his/her typical fashion, probably by moving away or countering you with his/her negativity. Ever feel like you hit a brick wall, time and time again? It hurts, doesn’t it. And, you go nowhere.
What would happen if you stopped using criticism, complaining or whining? What could you do instead? What does your criticising, complaining and nagging supposedly get for you? Give it some thought. (Here’s what you might find: You are trying to get something, or you want something to happen or you have some expectation and it’s not there. Can you find a different way to let this person know what you want, what you need or how you would like your life to be, without resorting to something that is absolutely guaranteed to give you the opposite of what you truly desire?)
3) Say “I’ve changed”.
In an attempt to persuade a spouse to stop an affair or restore a relationship you may use the ploy, “But, I’ve changed. I’m a different person.” And your behavior may truly be different – most of the time. You try to accommodate in ways you haven’t tried before or you alter your behavior to fit your perception of what he/she wants you to do. Here are some problems with this strategy:
• Is it true? Have you really changed or are you in a reactive mode? You are reacting to a painful situation by trying on different behaviors. There is nothing wrong with this. Actually you are to be commended. It proably takesa great deal of energy and conscious thought to alter, especially in a drastic manner, some of your habits. • If you continue the new behaviors they may gradually sink in and truly become a part of you. However, these changes usually lack staying power because they are born out of reactivity. • You will return to the old patterns, especially when the heat is off. And, your spouse intuitively knows this. He/she thinks, “This will never last” and is highly suspicious. • Your change will probably be veiwed by your spouse as an attempt to manipulate. He/she will perceive your change as a strategy on your part to get him/her to change. If your spouse felt “cornered” before, the feelings will be greater now. Your spouse will most likely resent these changes, even though these very behaviors is what he/she has been asking for for all the previous years. More distance will emerge. • You will lose credibility. Your spouse will not believe you or will not know what to believe about you. In 80% of the affairs, my experience and analysis tells me that confusion reigns. Your spouse is very confused about what he/she wants. By faking or trying on changed behaviors, you are only adding to the confusion. The message you are sending is NOT CLEAR. • You will lose respect. Bottom line: people don’t want other people to try to please or placate them. They just don’t respect that kind of strategy. There is no backbone. There is no core self from which you express yourself and take a firm stand. That is not very attractive.
Here’s a common response I encounter: If you can change so easily now, why didn’t you change when I wanted you to change back then? It’s too late now. Some sadness or resentment may emerge as he/she encounters the new behavior, thinking about what could have been, but is no longer seen as possible.
4) Argue, Reason, Plead
You may believe that the more persistent you are in trying to get your spouse to “understand,” the better off you may be. Not always true. Usually, the harder you try to get your point across, the deeper the wedge in the relationship.
An affair is not based on logic. One’s quest to “find him/herself” through an affair has little to do with reason. The allure of the OP (other person), whatever that allure might be, has little respect for reason, logic and thinking and talking something through together. So you may attempt to reason with your partner about seeing the OP, where your partner goes, how he/she spends time, spending more time with the children, how to handle finances and pay the bills and other issues related to your life together or you lack of life together. The two of you swirl. It’s as if you have been there, done that countless times before. You can predict what he/she will say, can predict your response to his/her response can, in turn, predict how he/she will respond to your response of his/her response. Sound familiar? You bang into a communication wall filled with the same old nasty feelings and thoughts you’ve encountered before. And you end in the same fashion, He/she walks away (which gives an “excuse” to run to the arms of someone else.arguing, reasoning and pleading keeps the focal point on each other. It keeps the relationship bound together (we call it enmeshment) in a powerfully negative and destructive way. You merely continue to rehash the old stuff with the same fruitless outcome.
5) Get friends and family involved.
It is not uncommon to look for an ally. But, more than an ally, you may look for someone who will be your eyes and ears and perhaps mouthpiece. You may seek out an informant. You quiz others about what your spouse is saying and doing. You pump for information. You may look for signs of hope and hang intently on every word of your ally. Or, you might enlist a friend or family member to be your mouthpiece. You encourage them to talk to your spouse and hammer some “sense” into this wayward creature. You give them all the information they need to be persuasive.
Unforntunately, many people seem to get off on this. There is an element of drama, suspense and mystery that hooks people into being what they think is helpful. They may be all too willing to join you in your drama. Getting friends and family involved only worsens your situation. Three people emotionally involved and invested in a relationship form a triangle. Ever watch soap operas? A soap opera is inherently two people talking about a third or two aligned and plotting against the third. There is a lot of juice stirred up but the relationships never reach the point of health (unless the triangle is broken). With such a triangle, you only perpetuate a bad sitation. What is an affair? Basically, it’s a triangle: two aligned against the outsider. Adding more triangles to the mix only increases the possibilty for a more powerful explosion.
To break free from the affair, it is crucial that you and your spouse face one another and begin stating your own positions, your needs, your desires, your beliefs, the feelings you have about yourself, not the other person and each begin unraveling the story of your respective lives.
6) Act helpless, depressed.
Talk about unattractive. It takes a tremendous amount of energy for someone to be in relationship with a person who consistently acts helpless and depressed. People, over time, weary of being around such a person. Do you like being around a depressed person?
Here’s the kicker though: Acting helpless and depressed can get mileage. Some people seek out depressing people because it gives them good feelings to take care of someone, or they get a feeling of being a little superior. In the meantime the depressed and helpless person gets a lot of attention and care.
The helpless or poor me syndrome is also a tool to control the other person. After all, you don’t want to get too upset with a depressed person. They can’t handle that, right? Or, worst case scenario, might they harm themselves, because they are so fragile? At some point the caretaker begins to pull away from the relationship and resolves not to be a part of that cycle. An affair might be the unconscious strategy (albeit, a not very bright srategy) to cope with one’s inabilty to confront the depressed person with his/her true self. Acting depressed or helpless in the aftermath of an affair may be a longstanding pattern, only intensified at this point, in your relationship with your partner. It no longer works effectively, but you might turn up the volume a little louder, acting a more helpless and depressed, to make your point and get him/her back.
Question: If it does work and your partner comes back, is that the kind of relationship you want? Do you relish the idea of playing the victim/helpless role the rest of your life to control and maintain a relationship? Probably not. At least, I wouldn’t want that for you. So you say you really are depressed? OK, fair enough. Some people do suffer from the clinical definition of depression as defined in the medical community. If you do, don’t wait one more minute. Call your family doctor and ask for a referral to get some help. Assume responsibility for your illness.
Discover who you really are beneath the depression so you have a true self to offer to your spouse, or someone else. Doesn’t that sound much better? I would think your partner would think so.
7) Give up opposite sex relationships.
If your partner is involved in an affair, you most likely have the tendency to shun people of the opposite sex. There are a number of reasons for this. First, you probably do not feel very attractive or desireable. As I’ve noted in other writings, being on the receiving end of an affair dumps self-esteem down the toilet. Even if you had an interest in pursuing a relationship, this would get in the way.
An interesting phenomenon I observe very frequently is that the spouse having the affair sends a subtle or not so subtle message that only he/she is allowed to have an extramarital relationship. It is his/her domain. If the offended partner begins a relationship with a person of the opposite sex the person having the affair may become jealous and disturbed, sometimes extremely so. Make sense? No, but then again, not much about affairs makes sense.
You may hold back from having an opposite sex relationship because you believe it will only give permission to your partner to continue the affair and provide further ammunition for him/her to truly leave. This does occur, but only in particular kinds of affairs and, I beleive, only in a minority of situations. It will NOT be a major factor in his/her decision to truly end the marriage.
Holding back from developing an opposite sex relationship typically indicates you are doggedly determined to focus on what your parner and what he/she is doing or not doing. You are riveted on this painful elusive relationship. It occupies your every moment and breath. To think of having a life of your own seems terribly foreign. When I talk about having a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, I’m NOT talking about dating or sleeping around. Don’t jump off the bridge. But, there is such a thing as a healthy relationship with those of different gender. Actually, it’s fairly important to have those relationships without sexualizing them, or at least trusting yourself and the other person well enough to have a friendship that energizes.
You can learn a great deal. Your life will be enriched. You will have a life. And, it will be important to have this life in the future, with or without your partner present.
8) Get reassurance from your children.
Please don’t intentionally involve your children. Here’s what I mean. • Don’t share information with them about their other parent. • Don’t try to pry information from them about your spouse. • Don’t ask (in any way) for them to agree with you or side with you or comfort you. • Don’t talk about your spouse to them in any way shape or manner.
You can say directly: I’m having a difficult time right now, but I’m doing everything to take care of it and this too shall pass. I will always be here for you. Why? This is a difficult time emotionally for your children. They know what is going on, even if they don’t know the details. They need a PARENT(S). Don’t you become the child.
Remember my talk about triangles? What we have with your children is the potential for more triangles. Someone talking to someone about someone else only perpetuates your pain, creates pain for them, and lowers the possibility of resolving effectively your relationship with your spouse. As long as you are mired in triangles, you offer the opportunity for your spouse to perceive you as undesireable and therefore he/she continues the affair. As well you remain locked in your pain and merely leng then the time and intensity of your misery. Go to other people (adults) for reassurance, comfort, guidance and a listening ear.
The ideal way to beat a triangle, you know, is to confront your spouse with your thoughts, your needs, set boundaries, declare yourself, take a stand and in essence, look at him/her eyeball-to-eyeball and say, I won’t live like this. I’m making some shifts and changes. "I will make it, either with or without you. But, I guarantee you, I will make it".
9) Use the Bible or Dr Laura.
It is a natural impulse to want to beat your wandering spouse over the head, not literally, of course. Well, maybe… (Just kidding. Don’t do it!) But, on a number of occassions I’ve run across those who throw Bible verses, selected passages from books or talk show hosts comments about the immorality and path of perdition he/whe is following by engaging in an affair.
Now, granted, engaging in an affair is sin because it certainly does miss the mark in terms of having an authentic and truth-filled relationship and it certainly has dire consequences in which the other does walk down a difficult path. However, using this as a weapon to stop the affair brings dubious results at best. Think about it. Would you really want him/her to come back to the relationship because of coercion? What would that be like? He/she would be there because of moral compunction, not because they really wanted to be with you. Could you live in an relationship of emotional investment where someone was forced to be with you – out of guilt or trying to abide by some law? Don’t you really want to be wanted? Have you ever heard the phrase, that which you resist, persists? This concept implies that the more you try to avoid something or work hard to change something, the more power you give it and the possibility for true change diminishes.
Beating him/her over the head with moral persuasion most likely will increase his/her resolve, if not openly at least inernally, to oppose you. Poor strategy! Again, we return to a common theme: gathering moral ammunition and blasting away at the other person means you are focusing your energy on him/her. Your best bet is to turn that finger around and be kind, gentle, encouraging, supportive, directive, and caring to your self. Get your emotions and thinking uder control. Plan your strategy for your survival, growth and moving ahead – without without him/her.
One more thing: Do you really want to be known as a morally superior person? Not most of us do. I’m not talking about becoming a morally inferior person, i.e. lowering your standards, by any means. I’m suggesting, don’t go into the arena of morality or take a morally righteous position. It’s booby trapped. You prolong your misery. You lessen hope for a reconciled marriage or workable future relationship with your spouse.
10) Suggest counseling.
OK, what’s the deal. A therapist who is recommending that you NOT pursue counseling with your spouse? Yes, exactly. Believe me, I’ve seen hundreds of couples and counseling when an affair is involved, seldom, and I mean really seldom works. In most communities, getting counseling is the thing to do when there are marital problems. Family, friends, clergy and others say, “Have you gotten counseling?” Many spouses agree to attend. It usually lasts for a few sessions, if that. He/she often enters counseling guardedly and with little intent to self disclose. He/she usually in some fashion sabatoges counseling. It doesn’t work. Here’s the kicker: the person is then able to say, “Well, we got counseling, and it just didn’t work out!” Counseling becomes a rationalization to pull further away. Suggesting counseling, because it is socially sanctioned by your community, is perceived by your spouse as coercion. Again, persuasion or coercion usually gets the results you don’t intend and shifts the focus away from where it needs to be – your self care and your ability to take a firm, non-reactive stand and move ahead with your life, with our without him/her.
So you want to get your spouse into counseling? Here’s your strategy: Say, “I want you to know that I’m getting counseling. There are some changes I want to make for my self. You are basically right, our relationship hasn’t been that cool for me either. I want to learn why I attract the kind of people I do. I want to prepare for my future. I’m going to make it!” Depending on the kind of affair that confronts you, this is your best chance for the two of you to resolve the relationship, with counseling being a helpful tool.
11) Tell him/her we need to work on the relationship.
This usually means you want to go back to the way the marrige used to be. You remember the good times and your intent is to recapture them. Or you believe that the two of you, focusing on each other with more purpose, can change the flow of the relationship. To do that, you believe you need to try. This often means spending more time together, dating, being more attentive to each other, reading self help books together, buying each other gifts and in general, revisiting the courting stage of the relationship. This usually is very uncomfortable. One is the pursuer and the other hedges, forgets or distances. There are constant thoughts of the OP (other person) by both parties. The comparison game is played internally, but never talked about openly. The stress and strain oozes beneath the surface. The spouse involved with the other person may concede to trying, since it serves basically the same purpose as counseling. He/she can at some point say, “See, we tried and it just didn’t work.” It may ease the guilt or give internal permission to pursue with more vigor the other person.
Trying does not get at the truth. Trying is a band aid that fails to alter the underlying dyanamics of the marriage or the individuals. Trying to change the relationship is again, other focused, and this only leads to a deeper sense of being stuck. Don’t work on the relationship. Here’s my mantra again: Work on you. No, you don’t even have to work on you. Be you! If you don’t know who you are, find out and then be you. It really is ok. And, it really isn’t that difficult. At least it’s much easier than trying to change another person or a relationship.
One more thing. When you are you and stop trying to change someone or something else, that someone or something else of investment cannot not change. Think about it!
12) Let yourself go to pot.
It is very easy when confronted with a trauma that rocks us to our soul to go back to that which is ugly, negative and ultimaltely self-deafeating. We revert to the negative thoughts about ourself. We revert to those old negative feelings that rip at our emotions and sometimes tear at our body. We revert to those old ways of behaving that get us where we don’t want to go. We go back to what I call our “familiar position.”
Allowing yourself to go to pot (and I know some who literally go there or find some other substance to ingest that numbs) takes a tremendous amount of energy. It takes more than facing head on what you need to face. You continue on a downward spiral whereby each negative thought, word and action builds on the other and accumulates. A cloud of negativity hinders you from taking the action you need to take to see your way through. You become stuck. Of course, you understand, that when you go down that road, you become exceedingly unattractive. You are exceedingly unattractive. This only reinforces the negative self thoughts swirling in your mind. To think of yourself as desireable seems a long ways off. When in your “familiar position” you will resort to typical behaviors you use to get what you think you want. basically, you will either withdraw or attack. Neither will serve you well.
OK, so what do you do? Well, it is impossible to totally avoid your negative feelings and thoughts, so don’t try. It is also impossible to force yourself onto a different path. (That might last for a while, but the negativity will catch up to you). There are a couple powerful strategies. First, just notice when you go where you typically go. Don’t judge. Just notice. Allow the negativity to be there for a while. Observe it. Learn from it. Be aware of how you are trying to protect yourself or how you actually are trying to get what is important for you. Be gracious to yourself. Accept the fact that you are sometimes where you don’t want to be. Be kind to yourself. Look beneath. Look deeper. Look within. It will be well worth it. And, others will notice. They will see the change, and it will be attractive. ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Huizenga is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with over 20 years of professional experience, working with hundreds of couples and thousands of individuals. He has done extensive research and study in the specialty area of extramarital affairs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <small>[ September 24, 2004, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>
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WHOA!!!!!!!! Bad, bad morning.
I made the mistake of calling her. She hung up on me as soon as I said hi, I called back, she hung up.
I left work and drove over there.
Just as I had expected, she was so mad at me, so angry, blaming, cruel and told me that she does not want to have anything at all to do with me. That she does not want to be married.
She told me to leave.
I stayed and was quiet. She cooled off a bit, then I did everything that you all posted that I should not do. Talked and talked.....
A couple LB's I'm afraid.
She finally said that she knows what I want, she knows what she needs to do, but she will not end it with him today. But she has been thinking about it. (What does that mean???) She wants me to be consistent and take care of myself.
That is such a loaded statement, that I don't know what to make of it.
She said that she doesn't want to talk like this anymore. I told her that I respect that and if I happen to start talking like that to simply interrupt me and remind me that I had promised. She said ok.
I asked her if it was ok to offer to her to spend time with our son and me when we do things on the weekends and she said, yes.
So now, I guess I put into action all of your insightful recommendations. No talking, no asking, no wallowing in self-pity, be happy, confident and secure.... Woe, tough order....
It all seems so odd to do, so against instincts...
Do I compliment her, buy flowers, write notes or anything like that???? Or do I just act as if all of a sudden, I am content with her decision?
I am going over there after work to pick up my son today. I am scared....
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You call, she hangs up. Twice… Then you go over there… She tells you to leave and you stay there…
Are you just looking to stir up trouble? Cause that is exactly what you are doing…
She wants me to be consistent and take care of myself. That exactly what you should be doing regardless of what she says.
I told her that I respect that and if I happen to start talking like that to simply interrupt me and remind me that I had promised. Wrongo! You do NOT do it to begin with. You promised this. Now you are showing her your promises don’t mean squat.
Do I compliment her, buy flowers, write notes or anything like that???? No. Do not do this.
I am going over there after work to pick up my son today. I am scared.... Go over there, pick up your son, say, “thank you, I’ll bring him back on xxx” and leave. Don;t ask her to go out with you and your son. Don’t stick around. Don’t sit down and get comfortable (or uncomfortable). Don’t compliment her. Don’t jab at her. Don’t question her. Don’t tell her all your plans with your son. Pick him up and leave. Don't call her over the weekend. Have time with your son.
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I just re-read the posts, and printed some of them out.
Everybody has given me such incredible advise. Thank you all so very much. I just wish I had read this before I went over there this morning.
TMCM, that second post, man, I've been doing every one of them. It's so terribly obvious now...
FM, everybody in the family knows, people at work know, friends know, she said today that she is humiliated that people know. And my son stays with her....
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thatsall: It all seems so odd to do, so against instincts...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you have already seen for yourself, our instincts our counterproductive when it comes to dealing with an unfaithful spouse.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I compliment her, buy flowers, write notes or anything like that???? Or do I just act as if all of a sudden, I am content with her decision?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you do it as a sincere peace gesture, then its probably ok to give her flowers but don't expect her to melt in your arms and declare her undying love for you, otherwise you will be severely angry and disappointed.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going over there after work to pick up my son today. I am scared....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't be because she's also probably scared and is wondering how you will react towards her for her rude behavior.
Be respectful, calm and considerate when you talk to her and you will show her how emotionally strong you are.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thatsall:
TMCM, that second post, man, I've been doing every one of them. It's so terribly obvious now...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even if that is the case, it is still not too late for you to stop doing all 12 unattractive, typical, and ugly tactics. All it takes is your committment to stop doing them.
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Wow Chris....
I always like your feedback, thank you.
Is that Plan B then?
I guess if she reaches out to me and asks questions, should I be loving and receptive, or should I just be really short....
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No, it's not Plan B. You are not ready for Plan B. Plan B is not just not speaking with them.
You are just lying low. You need to learn to control yourself.
Nothing will get fixed until she ends her affair just as nothign will get fixed until you learn to control yourself.
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So to Plan A, I need to control myself with the hopes that she will eventually cut off the affair and see me as a safe alternative...
Right now, there is no reason other that guilt, shame and pity to come back to this marriage. It is the same husband she was unhappy with.
Do I take on the mentality that this marriage is over? Or should I continue to hold out hope that she will "come to her senses"
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Right now, there is no reason other that guilt, shame and pity to come back to this marriage. It is the same husband she was unhappy with. Right. So you need to learn self-discipline.
Do I take on the mentality that this marriage is over? Where did you read this in Marriage Builders?
You should learn to stop LoveBusting. Read the links below...
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Chris, I think one reason I am having so much trouble understanding and implementing is that we do not live together. So Plan A seems ineffectual because I don't really have the opportunity to meet any EN's.
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Thatsall, good morning, did you drink your coffee yet.
Listen to these guys & girls please, you have got some of the best talking to you here.
You dear friend are in the best possible position to do Plan A, with your temperment as it is. All over the place which again is completely normal, not productive, but normal it's called heart broken, or FUBAR, it's a condition that changes with the weather. What you got to do is control the way you portrait yourself to your wife. Complete wreck or guy in control that she'd want to be with....mmmmm think deep thoughts pal no stop, not those ones, deep thoughts about yourself, and who you will be, and how you will recover.
Plan A is all about being the more attractive alternative. Because you live apart you are in a fortunate position of being able to do the 'nice' you in short bursts, not 24/7.
I know it hurts, it sucks, it makes you mad. These are real feelings. But you have to focus on the end picture, plan A is to get your wife to want to end her affair & improve you in the process. Don't expect appreciation. Work for results.
Me thinks you need to look again at plan A again. It is about being the best you can be. Perhaps put yourself in boyfriend mode, you fancy this girl like crazy she is with someone else, what ya going to do to make her fancy you. Cruel irony I know, but it does work. Stand back, listen to what she has told you. Listen to the guys who've advised you. Print that stuff off, learn it, live it, eventually you'll see it, not today or next week, but possibly 3, 6, God knows 10 or 18 months down the road. Know then you are the best and did your best possible effort, and live with the outcome happily.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but please pay attention, learn from the mistakes and wisdom experience of others.
Other thing do not do anything in anyway that your son will bring back to Mom as negative. Give the boy a chance to have some real fun with Dad, focus on him, when he is with you, on his happiness. Reassure him that you love him too.
My thoughts are with you & your family. Ktulu munching chocolate & slurping coffee loudly.
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Ok, it sounds like you haven't read "Surviving an Affair". If you haven't order it immediately! In SAA you will see a specific example where Dr. Harley helped a BS to implement Plan A while WS was living away from him. I am in this exact situation and believe me it can be done.Read the Bible if you are a Christian. Make sure you look at the link in my signature too. Order His Needs Her Needs, and Love Must be tough by Dr. Dobson. All the advice you have recieved thus far is excellent in my opinion. You should follow it to the letter. Do not say much to WW until you have done these things!! After you have read the above I Guarantee you will have an entirely different mindset. Spend time with your S, post here frequently, and Take Care of Yourself. No, ILY's to WW and stop being so Needy. You can do this. And remember we are here for you. C.
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