Long before I noticed any change in my H's attitude toward me, I noticed that he was withdrawing from the family. He used to attend every school function, every teacher conference. He stopped that, and lost interest in going anywhere as a family, though he still seemed ok with going places with me or with one of the kids at a time. This is a man who used to look forward to going grocery shopping as a family! Four years ago he told a prospective employer that the thing he valued most in a job was flexibility, because his family was so important to him.<P>I noticed some withdrawal from the kids once before, after I had briefly stopped working outside the home, but it got better after I returned to work. This withdrawal once again began after I stopped working, which of course coincided with us having less money. Could depression cause this? <P>Now that he is with the OW, he seems fond of the kids, and I am sure he would be there if they needed him in an emergency, but he seems so detached from them. Immediately after he left he seemed to grow closer to them - he told them he loved them without them saying it first (I don't recall him ever doing that before), the little ones spent a lot of time on his lap watching tv or having him read to them, and he was thinking of recreational activities for them to do together. As soon as he filed, that started to change. He has gradually scaled back visitation. When he wished our 7 year old Happy Birthday, he just stood there, didn't give her a hug or even a pat. His son told him he wanted to do fun things together, and he replied that going to the movies was fun (he and the OW had taken all 4 kids plus some friends). My son told him that that wasn't what he meant - he wanted to do things together, not just have him physically present. All he said was, "I know", but nothing changed. Can he really care as little for them as he seems to, or is he just trying to protect himself from feeling anything? The kids don't understand how their father could change so much - my son said that he didn't think he (my son) would be happy again until when and if someone knocked some sense into his father.

Maybe he's afraid OW will get jealous if he spends or acts too enthused about the kids? Maybe he feels guilty?

Nellie:<P>I have often asked myself the same questions. My husband, who was also a very involved father, has greatly withdrawn from our family. When our son was born 7 years ago, my husband was so proud and doting. I remember him lying on the floor next to our son's crib as he fell asleep nightly. He took days off from work to take the preschool kids on field trips. This same man never met our son's first grade teacher last year and didn't attend a single school function.<P>Our daughter was born in the midst of the turbulence 14 months ago. She doesn't really know him. She's much closer to both grandfathers, all the uncles, and my friends. Often, when my husband brings our son back after a visit, he'll leave him at the door and not even come in to see the baby. He ran out, presumably to visit his girlfriend, in the middle of her first birthday party, to which he brought no present. I must add, she is the world's cutest and most delightful baby that strangers are drawn to in restaurants and while strolling.<P>So, what happens to them? How do you explain this change? YOU CAN'T.<P>I personally think that they are lost within themselves during their own crisis. They are incapable of giving to anyone (I'm not even sure about the other women). They are too self-absorbed to think about anyone else's needs and only feel their own pain, which I think is quite large. It is this self-absorbtion and preoccupation that keeps them from acknowledging accountability for what they have done and continue to do.<P>Depending on the maturity and depth of the man, I think most will come out of this phase and then have to deal with themselves. It won't be pretty when they are forced to realize what they've done. I truly believe that my husband will cave under the weight of the realization of how he treated his only daughter during her first year of life. There is just no excuse for it, regardless of how they feel towards us.<P>When their anger towards us fades, the romantic phase of the new relationship passes, and awareness of their actions is apparent to all their friends, family, and co-workers, I think they will be forced to deal with themselves.<P>The only question for me is whether we will care enough to pick up the pieces.

Distressed,<BR>Are our H's related? My H used to take time off from work to go on school field trips too. When the kids were little he used to lie down on the floor of their bedroom while they fell asleep. Now, most of the time, he acts like he doesn't even think about them. A week or so before he left, our daughter had minor surgery. He didn't even bother to say goodbye when we left to go to the hospital, but then he was upset that I didn't call him as soon as she came out of anesthesia (we came home within the hour). I had no idea he was concerned.<P>Whenever I was worried about something, my H used to say, "Just don't think about it." Apparently it is that easy for him, most of the time. Perhaps he is capable of putting the kids totally out of his mind. Sometimes I worry that if he ever does realize the harm he has done, he will feel so guilty that he be suicidal again. <P>My FIL has always been very distant from my H and from his grandchildren, until last year when he suddenly sent them each individual Christmas cards with letters. I just hope my H doesn't wait until he is in his eighties to wake up.

Nellie1 It must be a side affect of bing with the OW. My H went to all the school functions when our children graduated especially our daughter he was devastated. In fact he thought the empty nest was causing his depression. We have two darling grandsons. He use to do things with the oldest one he is now three but when he started the affair he didn't have time in fact he put the OW before taking his grandson to the park. Our second one was only one month old when he left. He had been talking about how the baby was changing and how much he enjoyed seeing him so often and seeing how much he changed. He hasn't seen either one since he left two months ago. I think if they have to think about the kids it will make them realize what they are doing. So the farther away from the kids they can get the more they can get into their fantasy world. They don't want any part of reality, and the children are a big part of reality. I think my H doesn't want to accept he is a grandfather. He want his youth back. No responsibilty. Anyway he acts like a teenager.<P>------------------<BR>di

Nellie1 It must be a side affect of bing with the OW. My H went to all the school functions when our children graduated especially our daughter he was devastated. In fact he thought the empty nest was causing his depression. We have two darling grandsons. He use to do things with the oldest one he is now three but when he started the affair he didn't have time in fact he put the OW before taking his grandson to the park. Our second one was only one month old when he left. He had been talking about how the baby was changing and how much he enjoyed seeing him so often and seeing how much he changed. He hasn't seen either one since he left two months ago. I think if they have to think about the kids it will make them realize what they are doing. So the farther away from the kids they can get the more they can get into their fantasy world. They don't want any part of reality, and the children are a big part of reality. I think my H doesn't want to accept he is a grandfather. He want his youth back. No responsibilty. Anyway he acts like a teenager.<P>------------------<BR>di

My 13 year old son commented today that he couldn't understand why the OW would do this [involvement with a MM etc.], since she was divorced and should know how bad divorce is for the family. I told him that I couldn't understand it either, except that some people do unto others as they have had done unto them. <P>My H always seems like he is under severe time constraints when he is taking the kids to dinner. Almost invariably if he is running late leaving here, the OW pages him, and sometimes even if he is not running late. My son said that the two times my H took them over there for the weekend, the OW called my H while he was driving there. One of the few times since he left that I have seen him relatively happy, relaxed, and chatty (for him) was when he was taking care of the kids here and I got home an hour earlier than he expected. She seems to be keeping him on an awfully tight rein. He wouldn't have been too happy if I had done that.<P>