Even though I've witnessed great signs of progress from my husband as of late and am thankful to God for working in his heart, there seems to be a major difference between my situation and the ones I've been reading about/responding to. I mean, my H read the entire book Surviving an Affair (i sent it to him). He is more friendly when I call him (though I'm the one calling him)and we have talked more and more. But,he is still seems unwilling to forgive. I forgave him when he was physically abusive, and now he won't forgive me. Does he just need more time? The message in church this morning was about forgiveness...I sent him the sermon notes and told him that I wasn't sending them to preach to him, but that I thought he might find them helpful as he struggles to forgive me. The parable that was used was the one about the servant who begged for his debt to be cancelled. It was, but when that same servant had an opportunity to cancel a debt owed to HIM, he refused. What really hurts is that my H thinks that what I did was worse than what he did. At that point, we agreed to disagree, but we both agreed that we both had wronged one another. He doesn't seem to think he broke our marriage vows either. He asked, "And which one did I break?"

I feel like I've been working myself haggard trying to "make it up" to him, because if someone had wronged me, that's what I'd want him to do. But I'm thinking that maybe I need to not contact him at all until he's ready to forgive me. Then I wonder that I run the risk of losing him if he thinks I'm not "kissing up" or whatever you want to call it.

It seems that other WWs and WHs are the ones to be himhawing around their spouses, not knowing if they want to work things out, and the ones being cheated on are the ones to want to work things out.

My husband is the opposite of the people who've been wronged, and I'm the one (WW) wanting desperately to work on saving this marriage.

I"M SO CONFUSED!!!! What do I do?

Rae-

I'm in the same situation and feel the same fustration. All I can say is that some people take more time...and unfortunately, some can never move beyond the pain toward rebuilding and forgiveness.

We just have to stay faithful to believe that God's still working (even though we can't see it). I will pray for you.

For now, we will do a reverse plan A trying to win back even the desire to try. At this point our S don't even want that.

It does seem strange that all the BS's are trying to get their WS's to rebuild while we WANT to rebuild and our S's couldn't care less. I'm sure this all makes sense to God.

Pray, Pray and Pray more. Only God can change their hearts.

Thanks for your encouragement to me in other thread.

2scared

So there is such a thing as reverse Plan A? Is that what you're doing? If so, for how long?

Sometimes I feel like I'm being impatient and I have to constantly remind myself, "All in God's time." Doesn't make in any easier, though, does it?

I will pray for you also...thank you.

Rae-

Laughing....

Let's see. I moved out in June. Ended the A 6/27. Confessed to W 6/29. Kept communicating off and on with OW trying to end on a nice note. Oh my gosh I wish I had just been strong. Wanted to move back in July but she didn't want me so I decided to do my own plan A as if I was trying to win her back. So far...it's still not working. So how long have I been in plan A? Let's see, almost two months. For plan a's, that's really not too long. I have to remember, I hurt her soooo bad and she has to greive the loss before she can want to move on to perhaps trust me again. That will take time. I'm so scared that she's getting ready to file... but as of this minute, she hasn't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's probably easier for us to do a plan A because we feel they deserve it. When the BS does a plan A on the WS, they are doing it out of faith because the WS doesn't deserve all the kindness. So, at least it is easier for us.

Do you understand what a plan A is? If not, go to the link below:

Plan A & B

I'm putting you on my personal prayer list.

2scared

I can relate completely as a FWS now doing my own plan A. I have been doing it for almost 4 months. It seems to be sort of working... although if you read my other thread you can see there are problems. But things are generally better than before!
I don't think our situations are so unusual. I think the main difference is one of timing - when the A is first discovered, and the Ws is the one feeling ultra self-confident, with 2 people wanting them... why should they plan A? But a few months down the track, after the BS has recovered from the shock and processed their anger, hurt feelings, etc and the Ws has come to their senses, I think its not uncommon for the roles to be reversed.
Also, I think asking for forgiveness doesn't usually help. It think its better to prove by your actions that you have changed and that you understand the pain you caused. This is probably a slow process. Patience, patience, patience....

I thought of one more thing...
if you feel like you are running yourself haggard, you could try being kinder to yourself. Maybe make a list of a whole lot of little things that make you feel good- I don't know, hobbies, talking to friends, favourite meals, sports, books, movies, nights out, helping others, chocolate, whatever it is... and make yourself do them. Then you have more energy to plan A.

Yes, I know what plan A is, but in my mind, I was thinking reverse Plan B (duh)...no contact with BS. I have been working on Plan A, successfully, I think. I know that the BS is the one who is supposed to be doing the plan B thing, but is it possible for he WS to do it...in an effort to save/preserve oneself? That's when I run the risk of him not thinking that I'm trying. But I'm the type of person to do everything in my power to work on a problem. Maybe I'm working too hard.

Maybe now my posts make more sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you for all support...I appreciate it very much!

Rae-

I guess a WS could so some reverse plan b...but why? They are already hurt and you want to reassure them that you are committed to THEM. I don't know if no contact would do that. It seems that would just cause more fears to rise.

Stick to plan a. We have a lot of ground to plow. I know we want them to swing open the door of their heart, put on a big smile and say "come on back in"... But it just doesn't work that way. Time... If it doesn't drive you crazy it will work in your favor.

Good luck.

2scared

Rae,

I think the thing you need to do out of plan A, is to avoid LB's. Do that and it will help. you said a few things in your first post I thought I would comment on. They may not help but they may start you thinking.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though I've witnessed great signs of progress from my husband as of late and am thankful to God for working in his heart, there seems to be a major difference between my situation and the ones I've been reading about/responding to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you have been seeing progress,then why change what you are doing. No your situation is not that different. Whether it is a BS trying to bring a WS back or the WS trying to bring the BS back, it boils down to a trust issue and an issue with how the reluctant participant sees themselves following the A. He does not trust you. You can understand why. However, if you read here often the WS is reluctant to come back because they don't trust the BS to: not throw the affair in their face for ever, or to change whatever behavior was bothering the WS, or...

In a general way it is the same.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I mean, my H read the entire book Surviving an Affair (i sent it to him). He is more friendly when I call him (though I'm the one calling him)and we have talked more and more. But,he is still seems unwilling to forgive.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure he is unwilling, as he might not be to the point to trust you enough to offer forgiveness. Further, forgiveness is really for him, not you. I realize you don't understand this, but is a way for the forgivee to walk away from the burden of the event. It might well come when your H feels better about himself.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I forgave him when he was physically abusive, and now he won't forgive me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correction, he has not YET forgiven you. It is not clear he "won't". Have some patience and realize that you are seeing baby steps here, and that is good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Does he just need more time? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Apparently so, as you say he has become a bit more friendly and open with you. I see progress, so it is clear he needs more time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The message in church this morning was about forgiveness...I sent him the sermon notes and told him that I wasn't sending them to preach to him, but that I thought he might find them helpful as he struggles to forgive me. The parable that was used was the one about the servant who begged for his debt to be cancelled. It was, but when that same servant had an opportunity to cancel a debt owed to HIM, he refused.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nice message but STOP educating your H. It makes this a contest as you are saying "see he did not do this and look what happened," or "see, he did this why can't you" and worst is "I forgave you so you should forgive me." That one is a no-no, big time.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What really hurts is that my H thinks that what I did was worse than what he did. At that point, we agreed to disagree, but we both agreed that we both had wronged one another. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent idea to agree that you both have been wronged. There is no way to measure or assess "who was hurt the most", because abuse is a physical betrayal of trust as is an affair. And he like you "promised to honor and protect" one another until death do you part.

I have a hard time understanding how either of your actions "honored" their partner or the marriage, and surely neither protected the other.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He doesn't seem to think he broke our marriage vows either. He asked, "And which one did I break?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The same one you broke, he did not honor you, or protect you, and he surely was not faithful to you and you were not to him either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like I've been working myself haggard trying to "make it up" to him, because if someone had wronged me, that's what I'd want him to do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So don't blame him because you feel haggard. This is your choice to do. However, you will never "make up" what you did any more than he can for abusing you. The idea is to move forward with a new perspective and set of responses to the stresses of life and marriage. The idea is to make your spouse happy they are married to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But I'm thinking that maybe I need to not contact him at all until he's ready to forgive me. Then I wonder that I run the risk of losing him if he thinks I'm not "kissing up" or whatever you want to call it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think several mentioned that this is a bad idea. However, you can slow down a bit and rest up. You can be very friendly, check in with him, and NOT be on the fast track.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems that other WWs and WHs are the ones to be himhawing around their spouses, not knowing if they want to work things out, and the ones being cheated on are the ones to want to work things out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes that is true, but in other times it is not. Your not in anyone elses marriage but your own, so you don't need to judge by what you see, although if you read a lot here you will see both situations very commonly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My husband is the opposite of the people who've been wronged, and I'm the one (WW) wanting desperately to work on saving this marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No he is not. He is very normal. That is why Harley wrote his books and this site exists. The normal response is for the BS to withdraw and stay that way, if not divorce. What you see here is very different from that.

It seems you are doing well. Have patience, you are seeing progress so you are doing something well. This stuff takes time, so hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you for the advice...2S and JL...this forum has been so helpful.

This is the latest...
We've decided to sell the house and get apartments. Okay, I can deal with that. I had actually thought that that'd be a good idea, next to getting back together, of course, to work things out right away. I had to go home tonight to sign all of the paperwork. I asked him if he'd be willing to discuss some things and he said, "Sure." After the realtor left, this is what happened.

He began by saying that he was "pretty sure" that he was going to file for D. He said that the book that he read didn't mean anything to him (this is a change from "wasn't impressed by it". That when I tell him I love him, it doesn't mean anything to him. That he doesn't know if are worth saving. That the progress I thought we were having--friendly, chit chat phone calls--as it turns out, he actually didn't want to be having (though while we were talking he didn't say anything like, "I don't want to talk right now.". That I was hypocritical to be telling him about forgiveness. I told him that the message came from a sermon I heard in church, and he said, "But it came through you." (Wish I would've read advice on the thread earlier.) I told him that I am no longer a hypocrite...that God has, indeed, forgiven me. He said that apart from discussing the house and the separation, that he didn't want anything to do with me. So, there goes the progress I thought we were making--right out the window.

This is what else I told him...A or no A, when a relationship isn't built on Christ, it won't last. A house that's built on sand will fall, after all. I told him that if he is not willing to build a personal relationship with God, first, then work on us building a foundation on which we could have a real, Godly relationship, I couldn't force him, change his mind. He said, "I'm still looking for my relationship with God." I replied, "It's right there. All you have to do is take it." I reminded him that God loves us most of all, that He knows us better than we know ourselves and if we allow him to comfort us, help us, and guide us, He will. Period. I asked him if there was any way he could take more time to make a decision, because he's still emotionally up and down. He said he could, but that he couldn't make any guarantees.

Before I left, I asked if I could pray with him and he said okay.(Though we're both born again Christians, believe it or not, this is the first time we did this...prayed together...alone...ever.) I thanked God for always being there for us. I thanked him for making the ultimate sacrifice for us. I asked him to be with H, to guide him, comfort him, and show him His will. I asked of God the same for me. I asked that, if it be His will for us to stay together, He help us work things out. I said Amen, grabbed his arm, and told him that I was sorry, that I would never never never do it to him again (have A). He didn't pull his arm away and he did look me right in the eyes, and that's all the hope I can muster right now.

I'm surprised I have any tears left. He's so so so angry (always has been)...it's like his anger is consuming him...not letting him feel anything else.

Any feedback? I'd appreciate it, as always.

Rae

Rae-

Wow... I am right there with ya. I have repented and am trying to rebuild but my W wants a DV. She is full of so much anger and pain and just wants out...NOW. I'm trying to delay her long enough to get her to think and see consistant actions.

Just remember, God is in contol. He will not abandon us but will be there through all this mess. I don't know the final outcome but I do know that God has a plan and it's for our good (Jer.17:21).

We have to stay out of dispair. It will sneak up on you. I'm praying for you!!!!

2scared

2S:

How do you delay? How long has it been since she found out? It's only been 3 weeks this Sat., for my H.

Something I'm struggling with--a question:
If H isn't willing to find pers. relat. with Christ, then is he possibly thwarting God's plan? What if it's His will for us to stay together, and my H won't budge? What if my H isn't willing to follow God's will?

Last week he was willing to take the $ that we earn from the house and put it into a joint savings acct. that neither of us would touch. And last night, he was "pretty sure" that he was gonna file for D...those are mixed messages, right? I sure pray that he allows God to help him, guide him.

Thank you for your prayers...how are you? I am praying for you also.

Rae

Rae-

A couple of things. First, feelings and emotions are dynamic. They change daily. What he feels right now (and says as a result of those feelings) can change tomorrow so don't believe that those emotional responses are poured in concrete. He could however, make a rash decision based on those emotions that he shouldn't make. When that happens other people (you and family) will suffer because of that rash, emotional decision. By the way... that's what happened with the A in the first place. You made a rash, emotional decision. Others suffered. BUT... you changed and repented. He can too if he makes that same emotional charged quick decision.

As to his walk with God. Well, only God can (and does) change a heart. You can't force him to change. You can lead him by example and let God work on his heart. Scripture gives you permission to stay.

As for me... It's been rough over the last 4 days. My W has radically changed position since Saturday. She is now angry and vindictive (in 27 yrs I have never seen this vindictive side). She is not at all interested in working on our marriage and wrote me last night saying "give it up...I'm moving on". Okay... in the natural it looks over. By faith I know that God can move mountains... It ain't over till it's over. And then God can still work. After all, I made an emotional decision, She might just do the same.

What we have to do is stay soft and loving. Give them permission to be angry and say mean things. Our response should be willing to accept responsibility for our actions and yet declaring our love for them. That can be hard. For me it's so hard to stay encouraged when everything looks hopeless. I have to remind myself that I can't change the past but I can chose to walk out a very different future. I can only change me...

I prayed for you this morning and I will continue to pray. It's our only hope.

2scared

2Scared-
Oh, thank you so much for the encouragement. I continue to pray for you. You are a huge encouragement to me...I thank God for that.

I feel as though I'm taking and not giving...is there anything I can help you with?

No word from H today. He said he didn't want to have anything to do with me. I must respect his wishes, even though I'm so afraid that during this time, he'll love me less. But I can't control that...I have no choice but to not contact him.

God does move mountains...you seem so upbeat and positive. I'm a pessimist by nature, so I'm struggling with keeping hope alive. Every sign that seems detrimental knocks me flat on my rear end. I pray that God can help me in this.

Thank you again...
Rae

Rae-

It is a rollercoaster! Some days are overwhelming! You're not very far post d-day. I KNOW that seems like it's been forever, but it hasn't. I'm only 14 weeks post d-day. Anyway, I'm in a good mood today. I figure if I can't win her heart and she decides to divorce me then maybe I can win her heart after the divorce. Hey...I'm not ready to give up yet. She's the woman I want to be married to.

Hang in there! Don't give up. Stay soft and on your face before God. He can change your H's heart.

I am praying for you.

What can you do for me? PRAY!!!!!!!

2scared

2S-
I'm glad that you are in a good mood, some of that hopefulness had rubbed off on me...not the good mood, just the hopefulness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And I will most definitely continue to pray for you.

So your wife had been changing her mind back and forth as I see my husband doing?

I know that it hasn't been very long--that's why
I'm so afraid of him making a decision so soon. I keep running through my mind the events of last week--the phone calls we've had. I can't help but think that for the most part, he was okay with talking to me...he even agreed with opening a savings account with both of our names that neither of us would touch with the earnings from the house. Hopefully, since he swung the opposite way this week, he can, at some point, find an equilibrium, where the hanging marbles (or whatever they are--magnets maybe?) stop swinging so violently. It's all in God's hands...this will be my mantra.

Rae

Rae-

I just got back from a men's bible study.

I'm glad your hopeful. One of the most difficult things about going through this struggle to rebuild the M is that the emotions run high and violent swings can take you both all over the board.

You asked me how to slow things down. Well, if possible during a sane moment let your H know that there is no need to rush into anything. I would even get him to set a date like 3-6 months out there before any major decisions are made. Hey...what does he have to lose at this point? If you get him to slow down you keep him from making an emotional decision in anger or reaction. The more time, the more opportunity to settle those wild emotions and make rational decisions. It also gives him the opportunity to observe your actions which will convince him more than all the talk in the world.

Now...getting him to slow down is another thing. My wife is picking up speed not slowing down. I think this group of "friends" are coaching her to dump the jerk and move on. I think they are trying to get her to do it fast. Yikes... she is angry now! I have a counselor appointment tomorrow. My W quit comming but I wanted to continue.

Can you get your H in MC? That way he can work through the issues and it will buy the healing time needed to open his heart to love you again. It's closed by the pain of the betrayel. I can't blame them...they are so hurt.

Anyway, keep praying and I will pray for you too. Everyday! Keep your heart tender.

2scared

Rae-

Read Jer. 29:11-14.

I'm off to work.

Pray!

2scared

rae

While I applaud you for your personal choice to accept Christ in your life, I must remind you that that is not an opinion shared by all. Many of us have different beliefs. Look at Jews, Buddhists, and Muhammadians.

I think you're missing the point of JL's post. Perhaps your H does not feel the same intensity of evangelicism that you do. Now, here you are, "educating" him once again. It's like you're putting this entirely on his shoulders. He feels like he has no input into this, except to push back against you.

Everything he's done is wrong. He was wrong before the A and his actions led up to it; he is wrong now in his pain and behavior post-A. Wrong Wrong Wrong. No wonder he wants to back off.

He doesn't need you to lecture him on finding Christ. He doesn't need you to be reminding him that, once again, he is doing the wrong thing. What he needs is to be validated. You stepped out - you humiliated and emasculated him. You chose another man over him. You tossed him aside, like a piece of garbage.

Now, you want him back. Understand that he wonders why. He wasn't good enough then - now he is? That's very confusing. Is this some sort of magnanamous gesture on your part, seeing as how he is so wrong and flawed and not worthy of you?

The reason he is seeking a D is because it is the only way he is having his voice heard. This is you steamrollering through this, and he's just on for the ride. He has no input into this, and so he's struggling to have some. Unfortunately, he sees D as the only input he has left to put in.

He feels that he was not man enough for you once, and that if he does reconcile, then he is setting himself up for the Next Time. He probably knows he wasn't a perfect H; he fears he still won't be good enough and you'll end up tossing him over for some other smooth talking stud again.

I think you need to validate him a little more. Reassure him of the good points you do see. Remind him that he is man enough for you. Humble yourself a little. After all, he may not have been a perfect H, but were you a perfect W?

2S, JL, Uphill-

Here's the latest...I appreciate the comments and advice, as always, and thought I'd respond...

Uphill- Just to clarify, both my H and I are Christians. I respect that others have different beliefs than we do.

My H and I have just both put our relationships with God on the back burner...we both know that and from what I learned last night, he is actually working on things. He even went to church with his sister and spoke to the asst. pastor to see if he'd be willing to counsel us, when he feels he is ready.

I spoke with my H's sister last night and she gave me some clear insight on what's going on with him. My mom actually also spoke to my H and he was pretty open and honest with them. He hasn't been able to communicate much to me. Although it definitely wasn't my intention, he does, in fact, feel like I'm pushing him. I saw an opening of softness in him and thought that it was a sign to move forward. Of course, I'm eager to work things out, so I've been trying to move things along when he's just not ready. I thought he was more ready than he actually is. I've back off totally now. He told his sis that he felt like I wasn't allowing him to grieve over his loss.

He felt like the book was blaming him for the A, that I was blaming him for the A, by suggesting that he read it. I see his point, though I do think he's not at the point to work on our marriage before the A--he's focused on the A...understandably so. Though the book does discuss how when emotional needs aren't met, then, even though it's wrong, some spouses will look elsewhere. But he's translating that to mean that it's still wrong to look outside the marriage for meeting needs. Obviously, I'm not going to get into a debate with him over what the book's saying and what it's not.

Ah, yes, eating the humble pie. I see how he could think that I'm trying to blame, attack, push. That's not what I was intending, but I definitely get it.

2Scared-
Thank you for your continued prayers. Just know that it is a reciprocal gesture. I am much more enlightened. I will read the scripture you suggested for devotions tonight. Thank you. My sis (with whom I'm staying) wants to start going to Wed. night services. It's a good idea for that middle of the week pick me up. When I was a kid, my parents took us Sun. a.m., evening, and Wed. evening...religiously (no pun intended). They were so so strict. By the time I was out on my own I wanted nothing to do with the church...very rebellious. Now, it's coming full circle...I see the value in going to church more than once a week.

Take care--
Rae