Hi all..i posted this over in just found out, but thought i'd post here for some help as well:

I posted my situation a long time ago, but better recap since i changed my username:

I've been through the thick of an affair and back again. WH definately seemed out of the fog and on his way to R..amazing how easily they can deceive you.

So, the beginning...i first found out about my WH's "friend" last year (co-worker). I had just given birth to our second child and knew things weren't right. There were some weird instances in the weeks leading up to the birth..from what i gather, things were just starting up at that point. WH's "friend" even visited in the hospital--the nerve! Although i don't think things were started on her part at that point. I'm quite sure WH had a crush on her then. It's so hard to even re-write all of what happened, but i know i want to give background to get some advice.

Basically, day after i arrived home w/our son i could tell he was acting weird. So i point-blank asked him what was wrong and he said he just didn't feel the same w/me anymore. I immediately asked if he was seeing someone else, to which he replied "no". My detective work quickly made me realize that was a lie.

Several things occurred in the meantime (cell phone records where i seen they had talked) then the day before my b.day last Oct, (just a side note, she was married at the end of Aug) i found a note in his pocket from her. How can i ever forget these words "Do you look gorgeous in everything that you wear? I wanted to hug you so bad last night, it killed me"..it also said I "heart" you. The immediate response to this note was a lie "it's not for me" (lol)...followed w/the infamous "she's just a friend". He said to call her and ask her if i didnt believe him, which i did. She of course said the same thing, said this was stupid, innocent flirting. He said he wanted to talk to her and i could hear everything she said. She told him to "kill the note" and asked if i wanted to call her H and she said that could not happen. When he got off the phone, we of course talked (argued--after we literally wrestled over the note). He threatened if i called the H, he'd leave. Being not even a month since i had given birth, i was distraught and scared. I stupidly followed his wishes.

I continued to monitor the situation. Again, more lies. I "allowed" him to take a trip in late Nov (what kind of man leaves his 2 month old child) to see a guy friend of his from high school in Florida--another mistake. This allowed him to talk to her the entire time..something i didn't find out til after i called the H. Yep, had enough and called him about a week and a half before Xmas. We had went out to dinner and when i got home, i realized i forgot to pick up treats for my son's class. So out to the store i went and WH talked to a friend and in the conversation, told him that he "couldn't pull a fast one on me cause i knew he was in love with her". It took me about a week to get up the courage to call the H. Thing was, he knew something was up, but not to the extent it had gone. One night, him and his WW had dinner plans at his parents to write their wedding thank you notes (can you imagine?) and she was late. She lied and said she was out w/someone else..he eventually got out of her that she was w/my WH.

When my WH arrived home from work that evening, i told him i called her H. We had a talk in which i got nothing out of him. He went to work the next day and things were still up in the air for a few weeks. Then out of the blue, he comes home from work in Jan. and says "he's back"..comes in the door and gives me a big hug/kiss.

They continue to work together..i don't know how i've even gotten this far. Each day, they weren't supposed to be talking or anything. We had an awesome Valentines day, great anniversary in May (we took a vacation to Florida), my BIL's wedding in June (btw, i ran into her at a bar the night of my SIL's stagette..told her i deserved an apology, she claimed she'd already apologized and that things were over, it was a long time ago. SIL and friends cussed her out), lots of little trips and everything here and there..living life like everything is fine, well other than my occaisional meltdowns. He knew i wanted him to leave work and that i was having a hard time dealing w/him seeing her on a daily basis. That in addition to dealing w/school and juggling daily responsibilities was not easy. I'd get upset, sometimes he'd care, others he wouldn't. All in all, i thought everything was fine. We were moving on, so i stupidly thought.

We went to Vegas the last full week in August (family trip w/MIL, FIL, BIL and SIL). The week before, i get a phone call from WH saying he's at work (15 mins after he was scheduled to get out) and he'd be leaving shortly. 10 minutes later i get a call from OW's H...he followed them after work and was right there w/them..they met behind a building up the street from work. I flipped..what the hell is this?! He puts my WH on the phone and he gives me his usual line of BS (he's a good liar, have i mentioned that?). It was the first time i didn't break down and cry. I told him i hoped he was happy w/his decisions and i couldn't believe he was doing this to me again. He claimed over and over again that it was nothing. Here's his version: There had been a big meeting at work and they were talking layoffs and she knew some info. Back at work, he asked if they could talk about what she knew, she told him no, then when she was leaving she said fine. We had a huge discussion. I told him if he wanted her so bad, then go get her. I couldn't do this anymore, it's not fair, i would not compete etc. He swore up and down that the situation wasn't as bad as it looked. That he LOVED me and wanted to be w/me. I told him i wasn't sure what to do. At one point, he looked at me and said "i'm happy for you" and i said why and he said "cause i'm going to treat you the way you should be treated". I told him this would have to be it, no more talking to her, about ANYTHING. This was August 17th.

He was off of work that next day. I went w/him cause he played tennis w/a M friend of his. I walked the baby around while they played. He was so loving and seemingly genuine. We went to the beach afterward. Back to work Thurs and I called OW before she went to see her explanation of that day and she told me the same story. So who knows really? She said she doesn't want to be w/him, she'd like it if she never seen or talked to either of us again, etc. I was "nice", maybe too nice..maybe that's been my problem all along. Anytime we've ever talked, i've never been super nasty..would that have helped? I did call her out on the fact that i knew they kissed (way back in Oct i think) and she didn't know that i knew that. Her H doesn't know. She was clearly upset that i did.

WH used to always call me from work and when this stuff was going on, he stopped. Well that day he was all calling and stuff, saying hi, i love you, etc. After i get off the phone w/her, a few minutes pass and he calls. Says that i say he can't be honest well guess what? She just called him! He claims she said that they cannot talk anymore. He's sweet as pie to me on Thursday and Friday...being more loving than he's been in years. I ask how she's being toward him at work and he says nasty, that she was even calling him names as she walked by! I was so happy, i thought this was definitely going to be the end.

Then we went to Vegas. We got back and continued to have fun times. Over labor day weekend, we went to a romantic dinner, went golfing, etc. We talked of the future quite often--possibly moving out of state and making plans for our 10yr wedding anniversary next May (to be remarried on the beach). He was acting just a smidgen strange..but he's been upset about not being able to find another job and i just chalked it up to that. One thing i wasn't happy w/was the fact that the Monday he went back to work after our vacation, i asked him how she was toward him at work and he says she asked him "how was your vacation"..i started crying and was upset and he wondered why..i said cause they had talked. Any sort of talking is bad, i've said this to him over and over.

This past weekend--we had a wedding Saturday. He's photographs them on the side. He pulled me up to dance w/him twice--something he never does. Sunday was the baby's 1st b.day. We had a nice family day. Monday he gets home from work and we take the kids to the park..really nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Tuesday he had jury duty, i drove him down there. I get back home and decide to call the OW to tell her to back off. I have some inside contacts at work who say they see them talking. First time i've been nasty. I cursed her out, asking her why the last time we talked, she said she wouldn't talk to him and now she is again. Then she tells me she's getting another job. Also says my WH gave her a note yesterday..it said: "No way, I hate it (in reference to her leaving the job) I love you so much. I look forward to seeing you each (F word) day." WTF??? She again claims that she's leaving the job, trying to get out of the situation. I counter w/there wouldn't be a situation if you didn't allow it to happen (both of them). I end by telling her to back off.

I pick him up from jury duty and try to remain calm. Our oldest's b.day is the next day (Wed). We decide to take him out to eat to celebrate. When we get home, i let out what i know. Of course, he lies first ("that could be an old note!"), then says of course she is going to say stuff to me to make him look like he's the one pursuing things. I pretty much tell him we're done, then he decides to try and explain himself. Admits to the note and says that he was playing her cause he was afraid by my being so upset lately, things may not work out and he wanted to have a "friend" there in case it didnt. No, i'm not dumb enough to buy this crap..not anymore. I know that he just was cake eating and now that reality has set in, of course he doesn't want to lose me. He wanted us both. He has admitted he is wrong, that he's been lieing. He wants to work things out. I say things are going to just make an immediate change and he says yes it can happen..how??

My question is..what am i to do? Here i thought we were working toward R and he was starting things back up w/her. How can i trust him? On one hand, i think he should go and maybe that'll make him realize how bad he's messed up, but then i'm afraid he'll just actively pursue her and possibly me, and i'll have no idea. When i said that to him, he said "it's not like she's single"--like that's stopped him before?

Thing is, he's such an incredibly good liar that i hardly know the difference anymore. I dont want to continue to be stupid..can anything be salvaged here after so much trust has been broken? I know i can't handle them working together anymore, so my only hope is that she will be taking the other job soon. But there could always be communication going on behind my back that i wont even know about. If all of this hadn't just happened a month ago, i think things would be different.

A little marriage background..we're at just over 9yrs. I'm 28 (29 in Oct), he's 32 (33 in Jan), together for (unlucky number) 13 yrs. Two boys, age 10 and 1. When i was pg. w/our first at eight months, i found a note in his work bag that he wrote to a girl in Japan that he had met right when i got pg. Long story but he used to drive a van for a hotel and he said that if she had wanted to kiss him that day, he would have. This is the major reason for the age difference between our kids. I was petrified to get pg. for fear of something like this happening again (and lo-and-behold, it did).

Throughout our marriage though, things were fine. We had what i'd say was a good marriage. I was always bothered by his incessant flirting, but figured he "came home to me" and this was just his personality. He was never happy w/his jobs and would always say that his work life sucked, personal life was great. Before going to this job (3yrs ago) and upon leaving the last, i found some cards in the garbage. Both from the same girl, one said that he had a nice [censored], the other was a sappy card where she said that she'd never forget their friendship, the time they spend together, etc...who knows where that relationship would've went had he stayed at the job? He'll even say himself that he has low self-esteem. He told me he doesn't know why, but he needs to feel liked/loved by everyone and that is why he is the way that he is. When i bring up these past instances, he says he never cheated on me (before this) and those things were nothing. He also admits that he lies a lot, says that's how he always was growing up. He's very into looking at other women, another thing that's bothered me but i always figured it was ok cause he just looked and didnt touch (lol). He takes pics at concerts and when we got back from Vegas, he went to one and took some pics of a girl in the front row. I still haven't confronted him on this, but that bothers me too, especially after everything else.

When i re-read all of this, i'm sick. I can't believe all that i've been through and feel like after all of these years, i don't even really know him. All i wanted in life was for this to work out, but can it...is it ever going to be ok again? I have so much love for him even after all that he has put me through..why? I also want to point out, and in our situation it would matter cause he's very caught up in looks, that i haven't changed looks-wise in all our years except while pg. And both times, i got my figure back very quickly.

Thank you for reading, if you got this far. Sorry so long, but thought it was important to include just about anything i could think of in order for advisement.

***i also added to my other post that he does seem like he wants to work things out, but he seemed this way last month too. And how am i supposed to get through w/them seeing each other at work again? Is this a good time to ask him to leave if--it could give them a chance to be together (although he already was pursuing even when he was living here) ugh!

Clynne,
Did you get it all out? I hope writing it all out helps you in some small way. I can hear the pain in your words. First off I wanted to make one point very quickly:

YOUR H IS ADDICTED TO OW!!

I feel qualified to point that out to you because right now, I'm QUITTING SMOKING!.. I've been smoking for 10 years and I felt it was high-time I stopped. The attachment between a Spouse and OP has always been described as an addiction, and let me tell you it takes every ounce of you to fight an addiction. I'm not discounting you H's cruel actions, I'm reminding you that drastic measures must be taken. Your H says he won't see OW again, and he wants to be with you right? He might actually mean it when he says it, but then when he has a craving to talk, see OW he's right back on the rollercoaster.

You asked should you talk to him about quitting his job? I think it's highly possible it will come to that, but he will probably need to hit a few bottoms before he will even consider that option. What has he lost due to his betrayal of you? What is his downside for continuing these actions? Look at this from an addicts point of view, sometimes doing the right or wrong thing isn't enough of a reason to make changes. I liked smoking, it was a habit that I attached alot of emotions to and just knowing smoking was wrong wasn't enough to persuade me to quit. I quit smoking for almost a year before, but I went right back to smoking. WHY? I figured I could quit anytime, I could control my addiction. WRONG! An addiction by definition, controls the addict! So my whole thought process was FOGGED when it came to my health, my children, my wife...everything surrounding deciding to quit smoking ciggarettes.

Okay, I'm a little scatter-brained these days as I GO THRU WITHDRAWAL. I do want you to see this thing realistically. Does OWH know that your H and OW kissed? I think you should tell him pronto. It's time this A be exposed and some real pressure be applied to get these adults to act like adults again. Are you in Plan A? If not please consider a plan. You need a plan, you need some way to get control back in your life. Click the link in my signature or go to articles and do a search for Plan A. It's highly suggested that you start in PLAN A. I think your situation is optimistic, the OW is M. This helps apply pressure on her side of the equation. You just had a baby, this will also apply pressure, there will be no skipping down off to lala land for your H and OW. You need to work on exposing this A and shinning some light on their pre-pubesant actions, A's thrive in darkness and secrecy, very few of them can sustain the light and scrutiny of those that matter.

Keep your chin up, I'm sure there will be many responders to you thread with great advice.

It's time to turn the heat up on their little fantasy land, dont you think. Get into a Plan and lets stop letting your H have all the control. It's obvious he's addicted and fogged to the point he doesn't know whether he's coming or going. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

lol..yeah Family, sorry so long! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Thank you very much for your reply.

Well we're actually past the point of "i don't know what i want"...last month and now he says he wants me and he is willing to quit his job, but don't know what we'd do about money (i only work p/t)... And i guess since she's leaving him leaving there is less important now--except for the fact that she has a way to contact him if she so chooses.

And that is where i am at--as of now, he's suffered really nothing huge from his consequences. That's why i'm wondering if it's just best for him to move out for now...so he can see that i'm serious and am tired of taking this. What do you think?

Continued success w/quitting smoking!

dee, sorry you are here, but your story is a classic example of why there should never be contact ever again between the OP and the WS. It is just like sending a recovering alcoholic into the bar every day and setting a drink in front of him. Eventually, he will have a weak moment and take a drink. The alcoholic NEVER recovers he is constantly reminded of that drink. He obsesses over it every day.

That is what has happened here. Your H has never withdrawn from the affair and can't possibly withdraw if they see each other every day. Every time he sees her, he is put back to day 1 in recovery.

So, I think that you know that nc is the only answer. He can never see her again if you want to save your marriage.

Yes, M, i see now how important NC is. I was stupid enough to believe they could "get past this". Apparently, both i and OW's H should've pressed the issue of another job more.

My question now is, she starts her new job on Friday, so should i try this again, now that the situation will be different? I want it to work; it's just so hard now w/the continued betrayed trust. I think if it wasn't just a month ago that this happened, it'd make it a lot easier. I know you can't say what to do/not to do, but wondering if there will be more hope for us now that she'll be out of the picture.

Thanks for your insight.

So yesterday work supposedly went good. WH says they didn't talk at all, just exchanged some evil eyes. He was all happy that the day went great..i was like big deal, one day. WH says things are going to be different (same line as last month).. i agree that they can be, since they won't be seeing each other daily, but who's to say there will be continued NC? I know he knows where she'll be working, she obviously knows where he is..will the nightmare really EVER end?

He's been trying to make the moves on me over the past few days, but i haven't gave in. I'm not comfortable doing that right now cause i think it'll send him the message that everything is ok when clearly, it is not. Today he says he won't make any more moves on me cause he could see the disgust in my eyes when he was doing so yesterday. I explained why i wasn't comfortable doing that, he understands. But now i see this as a possible huge barrier and that if i'm "not giving it to him", won't it push him in the direction of trying to hook up w/her again? Although even when everything seemed fine, he was pursuing..so what's the difference??

deethriceday,
Your situation sounds somewhat similar to mine. My dday was only 7 weeks ago. But my WH agreed to NC immediately. They work together at a nightclub. Because they don't always work the same days, it's been easier to keep NC. He brings me a copy of schedule every week so I can confirm that they're not working together. As far as I know there has been NC and things are going very well for our recovery. If your WH is serious about making things work with you, he should agree to NC. If he can't then Plan A is on. (I hope I don't sound like an expert, cuz I'm far from it.)
As far as the SF is concerned, I had the same concerns. My WH has been all over me. At first, I hesitated because I thought giving in would be sending the wrong signals. I've since discovered that SF is his most important EN, and we had some definite problems in that department before the A. I decided that I should try to fulfill that need for him. In doing so, I've discovered that it has been a great source of healing for me. We have been really intimate and loving and it's better than EVER. I don't regret my decision AT ALL. As a matter of fact, I've recently decided to move SF up on my list of EN!
Stellar