I have posted a few times on this site about my H and my A's. They were both 3yrs ago and VERY brief. I feel my situation is not as complex as many of the people here, but yet it does relate and has helped me open my eyes. I see myself and how I used to be in a whole new light. I also understand my H a little better. I really wish he would come here. Thank you everyone!!

The latest I read here was the post from the 28th on men and their emotions and how important sex is to them. Many men on this sight responded to jill's post. I was shocked on how important sex really is to a man. I was like most women. I thought is was just about the physical aspect and their getting pleased. I feel now like my H definitely needs sex to feel loved, and that is his emotional need. Since the discovery of our A's by one another, I have felt a new sense of love for him. I have not really been into him sexually for some time. Just have been going through the motions. Which is really stupid considering I want sex just as much. But before I read the post, I felt like we were not getting anything solved, he was just using sex to try to solve the issues in our marriage. I feel now that he is trying to get close to me again so he can start to try to open up.

Like I said it is amazing the things I have learned. Everyone hear is so honest about their feelings and how they really feel. That is great. Men and women are so very different. You can read a book and then wonder if what is said about men and women is really true.

So, thank you to all that have responed to my posts over the last 3 weeks, and to those of you who post questions that I would never have thought about.

Ann

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ann40:
<strong>
The latest I read here was the post from the 28th on men and their emotions and how important sex is to them. Many men on this sight responded to jill's post.

Ann </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ann I agree- that particular post was a lightbulb moment for me as well, and I used my new found knowledge well last night- lol! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ladies,

I can't speak for all men but I beleive I can speak for quite a few when I say that the quality of the sex matters as well. Just as you don't like to be forced to have sex when you are tired or stressed, many of us guy DO NOT enjoy duty sex either. I've talked about this with my W and she was surprised because she thought most men were like her XWH [her first H] and she knows that if she is not in the mood for sex then I don't want it either. When it comes to sex, it is quality that counts for me. If my W wants it as much as I do then sex becomes a spirital act as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> Ladies,

I can't speak for all men but I beleive I can speak for quite a few when I say that the quality of the sex matters as well. Just as you don't like to be forced to have sex when you are tired or stressed, many of us guy DO NOT enjoy duty sex either. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My lightbulb moment, TMCM, was understanding that sex was indeed an EMOTIONAL need of my H- not just a physical need. For some reason, this makes a difference in my attitude towards sex. I had understood from him that if we had more sex he would feel more affectionate, and to me that seemed like he wasn't able to meet my needs emotionally until he was satisfied physically. Now I understand that in truth he is looking to have an emotional need filled as well- which makes me much more interested in participating more frequently so that both of our needs will be met.

Does this make any sense at all? Perhaps not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:

I had understood from him that if we had more sex he would feel more affectionate, and to me that seemed like he wasn't able to meet my needs emotionally until he was satisfied physically. Now I understand that in truth he is looking to have an emotional need filled as well- which makes me much more interested in participating more frequently so that both of our needs will be met.

Does this make any sense at all? Perhaps not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it does but I would like you to consider conveying to your H that what really makes you passionate when it comes to sex is his non-sexual attention, affection and appreciation he shows you minutes, hours and even days before the two of you are sexually intimate [if its true of course]. Sex no longer is just sex but the physical/spiritual experience of making love. Chances are that he is/was like most men in that he is/was clueless as to the importance of the non-sexual EN of a woman. Does this make sense?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>
QUOTE]Yes it does but I would like you to consider conveying to your H that what really makes you passionate when it comes to sex is his non-sexual attention, affection and appreciation he shows you minutes, hours and even days before the two of you are sexually intimate [if its true of course]. Sex no longer is just sex but the physical/spiritual experience of making love. Chances are that he is/was like most men in that he is/was clueless as to the importance of the non-sexual EN of a woman. Does this make sense? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it does. But I have already told him that- many many times, and the response I get is that he feels more affectionate if we have sex more frequently- along with the statement that he just isn't physically an affectionate person.

OK, TMCM, now you've crossed a line:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...many of us guy DO NOT enjoy duty sex either.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey! I'll take "it" any way I can!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hehehe...seriously, there's all degrees of "sex". The bestest? Gotta go with TMCM: quality.

Just wish quantity weren't such an issue! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ann...glad you found "us"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's a plethera of info...and such great people here!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
But I have already told him that- many many times, and the response I get is that he feels more affectionate if we have sex more frequently- along with the statement that he just isn't physically an affectionate person.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe he feels inadequate being affectionate and this is something that is preventing him from expressing his affection towards you. Have you considered being the one to approach him with affectionate hugs and kisses? Starting first with short ones and then slowly making them longer? The point is to make him comfortable with the non-sexual affection to the point where he will eventually take the initiative.

I was thinking that maybe your H's inability to be non-sexually affectionate may have to do with the possibility that he may have been raised in a family environment where little affection was shown between family members, especially parents. Is that the case?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>
I was thinking that maybe your H's inability to be non-sexually affectionate may have to do with the possibility that he may have been raised in a family environment where little affection was shown between family members, especially parents. Is that the case? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See- that's the weird thing. His parents were very affection- his dad even more so then his mom. His dad kissed ALL of us until the day he died and was very loving.

I'll continue the work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I do try to initiate affectionate gestures- but will try harder. Thanks.

Hey everyone I am so glad this went on for awhile. Liny I am glad to that I found this sight. I feel better when I come hear and read postings, especially on the down days. I have a lot of those being 9mo. pregnant and all this stuff going on. I'm still hoping my H will come here, he would probably get something out of it.

Anyway. TMCM I think your question to sadfww about her H's family being affectionate was very interesting. My H's family is not that way at all. I wish my husband was more of a hugger and kisser. Actually he has gotten a lot better since we have known eachother. At first public affection was only holding hands. My family is a bunch of animals. My dad was constantly chasing mom around the house trying to rip her clothes off. Growing up, my friends were always shocked the first time over. But after that, that was just the way my parents were to them.

I can remember times when my H wanted sex and I did not. I would sometimes do it just to please him, but now I feel like it probably just hurt him when I was not so into it. He used to say sometimes I would just lay there like a fish. I always thought he was just making a joke around our closest friends. NOT unusual for us to rip on eachother around them. WELL you know what? He probably wasn't REALLY joking at all. Don't I feel stupid now.

I agree with TMCM it is not just quantity. I definitely believe in quality. Let me tell you. My H and I have been REALLY enjoying sex lately. And he better watch out because once I have this baby and recover he is REALLY REALLY going to enjoy it!!!!

Thanks everyone,

Ann

Ann, Sadww, others,

You haven't been here for a really good fight over Harley's needs yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, the need for Physical Attractiveness, can get a real war going, with the women usually siding with the "that is bunk" camp, and the men siding with the "Yup, that is right" camp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But, the point of the needs is to realize that they are ALL emotional needs. Notice breathing, and eating are NOT listed. They are not emotional they are physical. Sex is NOT a physical need, even for men. Yes, we actually do physically feel the need for a release (I won't go further than that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) but that problem can, shall we say, be handled. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Harley lists it because it is an emotional need for men.

Now, I will admit to my own blindness. I read those needs and posted here a long time before I realized that woman, did NOT see, SF as an emotional need. I just assumed they saw it as I did. I was clearly wrong. In fact, most men don't express it as an emotional need because it is tied to a physical act.

But, what the Coffeeman mentioned is soooo important,like any emotional need it is best met with verbal as well as physical act, hence the statement that the women need to be "into" it.

Sad, have you ever told your H you need "foreplay" before good sex? If you have not you should, and then you need to point out the erogenous zones: your eyes, your ears, your lips, between your ears, and then point to your heart. Just as you all did not associate emotions with sex, he does not associate affection, talking, smiling, light kissing with sex. It is foreplay for you isn't it?? If so tell him.

We all get lost in our own assumptions.

I am glad you are learning and enjoying MB Ann.

God Bless,

JL

I agree with TMCM it is not just quantity. I definitely believe in quality. Let me tell you. My H and I have been REALLY enjoying sex lately. And he better watch out because once I have this baby and recover he is REALLY REALLY going to enjoy it!!!!

Had to laugh when I read this Ann, you go girl!!!

Thanks JL. I did not mean to sound like a pig, but hey honesty is honesty. I do agree that for women fore play is important. Not necessarily all of the time. I like to be suprised also. I think all to often sex becomes routine. I get bored when that happens. I like to feel like my H is cherishing by body and all of it's parts in a way. If that makes any sense at all. I told my H about this post and the one that I read that started this one. I asked him if it was a emotional need for him. He said it was not top priority, and he listed 3 other things first.But that it was an important way to show feelings.

I think for both of us it is more of the little things that matter. Appreciated and told so. Like when he does the laundry or cleans the house. Now to me before, it is like well they are your clothes to and this is also your house. So more expected type of thing. But I most certainly appreciate it and love him for doing it. He is really a good man, husband, and wonderful father! I of coarse need to tell him more.

Communication, communication, communication!!!

Ann

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My lightbulb moment, TMCM, was understanding that sex was indeed an EMOTIONAL need of my H- not just a physical need. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sadfww - lol! Forgive me, but I had to have good chuckle when I read this. Reading and hearing are NOT synonomous with understanding. There can be a little of the "in one ear and out the other" for all of us, especially as we struggle through the wasteland left by Hurricane Alpha (for "affair").

Think about this...most of us here on MB have read (perhaps several times) the book Surviving An Affair. Many have even sat down and filled out the Emotional Needs Questionairre. On the list is something called "Sexual Fulfilment." For most men it is usually ranked at the top, or very near the top, of THEIR emotional needs and for most women it is ranked AFTER the more Affection, Caring, Honesty sorts of Needs.

But the point is, and what got me to chuckle, is the "light bulb moment" when, even though it was plainly listed as an Emotional Need, it's often hard for women to think of men as having "emotions." Why? Usually because they have bought into the myth... "all that men are interested in is sex," ..."men are 'ready' in an instant but women have to be 'emotionally ready' first," ..."men don't think, they just follow their 'little head," ..."slam, bam, thank you maam" is all that men think about when it comes to any meaning to sex," ..."all he is interested is getting his rocks off!"

Yes, sex and sexual desire (thank you Testosterone) IS normally higher and a more "constant" part of a male's makeup. That's the way God made us. But don't make the mistake that so many make that a husband only married you for SEX! Believe me when I tell you the same thing I have told my wife...."IF sex was all that I wanted, I could get all of it I might want very easily...but I waited in celibacy for 6 years because I only WANT sex with YOU." It IS an emotional thing and it is restricted to my covenantal wife no matter how raging the hormones might get or how "unfulfilled" is the "Sexual Fulfilment" Need. And even if some "macho men" won't admit it, men DO NOT enjoy sex with an unwilling or uninvolved spouse. Care to think about why an OW is often very appealing to a man in the emotional or physical desert of Sexual Fulfilment at home?

The OW or OP focus' all their attention on meeting just a FEW of the WS's NEEDS. It's very easy to do that, especially if those needs that are being met are at the top of your personal Emotional Needs Questionairre. Passion, involvement, hightened thrill of doing something you know is wrong and living on the edge of fear of "what if we get caught!?!.

Why do you think most Wayward Wives BEGIN getting caught up in an affair NOT by sex, but by conversation, by "getting to know each other," by affection, by caring....by many things that are usually at the top of a woman's Emotional Needs list? "We started out as "friends"..... push the top Emotional Needs "buttons" and watch out as the electricity begins to flow. Why do many women speak of the OM as a "soulmate?" It's NOT because they are "good in bed," it because they are getting their top EN's met and that causes a feeling a of "he CARES about me!!!"

Marriage entails much more than just a few Needs, it covers all of them. There are a LOT of factors that intertwine. THAT is one of the reasons why affairs happen. We take our eyes off of what is important to our SPOUSE and wallow in what we perceive as what WE should be getting. Throw in the demands of raising children, focusing all of your attention on what the kids "need," etc., and bingo....the top EN's stop getting met or you think that your spouse should have the exact same needs you have AND in the same order of importance that you have for your own needs.

....the desert.... communication slows and stops.... you each begin to think you have a "right" to be selfish and to "do YOUR own thing"....

Maintaining a "servants heart" reaps many benefits, but stubborn pride often says "I'll wait until he/she starts meeting MY needs BEFORE I meet any or hers/his!"

But the Scripture has it right even in this area..."Give, and ye shall receive."

In reality, it BEGINS with GIVING first, not receiving. The "amazing" thing about we humans, is that we RESPOND to receiving what someone is selflessly giving us. It MOTIVATES us to respond by trying to give that person what they need. It's like a "dating cycle." It starts slow and increases in intensity as both try to "serve" the other. Stay in the relationship long enough and you will begin to learn more about the "total person," but until then all of the decisions are being made by just a few top EN's that you feel are being met.

The cycle of "giving" escalates and results in two major things (there are several intertwined results): 1) We feel "in love" with someone who gives so much of themselves to us, and 2) we try to respond to receiving what is given by giving in return. We are "attuned" to what is important to each other, even if we don't know what an "emotional need" is. Why? Because two people "giving" instead of focusing on receiving are MUCH more likely to feel safe and free to ask questions and to talk about what they want and need, future hopes and dreams, religious and political beliefs...etc.

Making love with an uninvolved spouse is like doing it with a corpse....you are doing all the work but no one is enjoying it. The "positive feedback loop" is broken.

"Give me enthusiastic (is this another POJA thing?) participation or give me death!"

You might be surprised at how much pleasure with sex for a man is tied to the belief that your wife is enjoying herself and that YOU are all that she needs to be "satisfied."
Short of that...any knothole will do.

By the way....did I mention that men are VISUAL? Try wearing something tonight..."just for him."

God bless!

deleted and moved to new thread

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Sadfww ]</small>

Threadjack, sorry about that.

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>