Monday night was a night of as much LB'ing as I've ever done. Told her I was going to leave her and all the rest.

WW was really upset. We were up almost all night, finally settled down to discussion rather than anger.

Tuesday A.M. I wrote her a long letter detailing how I knew I had failed her and been instrumental in driving her to an EA, what a true blessing she had been to me and how I knew that me having priorities out of order had contributed so much. I told her that I would consider it a personal challenge to win her heart back. I committed to staying with her.

I took her to lunch Tuesday and gave her the letter. She read it and asked if it was just words or if I really meant it. I told her that my actions over time would convince her that I meant it.

She cried and apologized for the pain she has caused me. She said she sometimes feels the world would be better off without her because of the pain she has caused.

However, she still insists that OM is just a "friend" and we're going to visit the end of next week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, she still insists that OM is just a "friend" and we're going to visit the end of next week.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG - Great start with the discussion. The truth is that both spouses have to make changes to effect recovery. A good Plan A and understanding more about the "roles" of husbands and wives is a starting point. As you said, putting that understanding into practice, over time, gives "proof" to the words.

With respect to the above quote, your wife quite possibly DOES think of her relationship with OM as "just friends." Not understanding what an Emotional Affair is, she may well think it's not an affair unless they have sex. Time and learning will change that too, but one quick way to "prove" the affair nature is to say something along the lines of "okay, as with any addiction, if you are not addicted then it should be fairly easy to simply stop the activity and not have withdrawal symptoms. Can you simply "walk away" from contact if that is what your husband NEEDS or is the relationship more important than your spouse?"

Again, IF you are going, the previous comments apply. The OM's wife, the not letting her out of your sight, the never letting them alone, etc..

From her reaction to your talk, it is obvious that she has convinced herself, justifiably or not, that there are things that she "can't" get from you and needs to get from someone else. That was honest, as was her reaction question and your answer. Since you CAN control your actions, Plan A is the thing to focus on right now.

May I also suggest a few minutes of daily devotions with your wife. There are many good devotionals around. The one my wife and use is called On Holy Ground by Dr. Charles Stanley. It only takes a few minutes a day, but you might be surprised at how "on target" it is and how it refocus' both of your on God.

God bless.

GG, ForeverHers is giving you great advice. I think you deperately need to find out EXACTLY what is going on, even though it is apparent that it is an affair. It seems to me that she is adament in pretending this is a mere friendship and will do so until you prove otherwise. It is just your word against hers and she will deny, deny, deny as long as she is able. And what can you do? Nothing. Unless you have solid evidence to the contrary.

However, if you could produce evidence to the contrary, she would have no more deniability. And sharing that evidence with the OMW would quickly end this charade.

I think you could prove it is NOT a mere friendship real quick if you install some spyware on her computer. That way you could print up her conversation and she couldn't deny it if it truly is an affair. Until you do that, it is just your crazy suspicions against her word.

I think spyware would give you the ability to blow this open real quick. A good spy program is ActMon Pro at www.iopus.com. You can install it in stealth mode and have the reports secretly mailed to you. You would only have to gain access to her computer ONCE because all the reports would be emailed to you. I think it costs about $60 but it is well worth it.

P.S. if you did it now, you might get out of going on this trip!

I'm totally with Forever hers on this one. I have also been in the same situation as your wife. I had a man who was just a good friend on the internet. I flew to meet him and we ended up making out bigtime. This was not planned, I didnt expect it to happen. what Im trying to say is that even if this is not an EA but just a friendship, that if she meets him alone it has all the potential of becoming a PA.

Dont let her go alone. let her know that u r not happy about her going but DO go with her if she insists. Make sure that during this short vacation that you plan on doing plenty of fun things alone with your wife (I presume that her "friend" will be working). Do not Lovebust. take it as a short vacation and PlanA your butt off whilst you are there. Make yourself fun, charming and romantic....

Good luck!

Debbra - Thanks much for you valuable "been there, done that" input.

I think we (even W) all know that it is an affair. She has said she will not end her relationship with him, even if it ends our marriage.

OMW does indeed know about it for sure. I hope to be able to discuss this with her while we visit. W says that sometimes OMW is okay with it, sometimes not (depends on time of month, I'm told).

I don't think Spyware would get anything I don't already know. She's pretty open about the whole thing, and when the fog lifts she readily admits what's going on, cries, apologizes, etc.

Debbra - How did your story end?

I'll try to be fun, charming, etc. Truth is, I'd rather have a kick in the head than go...but I'll try to be as kind as possible.

BTW - Her "friend" does not work, but his W does. My W wants time alone with him while OMW is at work. We've agreed that this can only take place in a public setting, not alone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Georgia Guy:
<strong>

OMW does indeed know about it for sure. I hope to be able to discuss this with her while we visit. W says that sometimes OMW is okay with it, sometimes not (depends on time of month, I'm told).

I don't think Spyware would get anything I don't already know. She's pretty open about the whole thing, and when the fog lifts she readily admits what's going on, cries, apologizes, etc.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG, I thought that your W was denying this was an affair and has characterized it as only an innocent "friendship?" Did I misread? Because that is not being open, that is being deceitful.

My point is that you will never move forward until you a) find out the exact nature of the relationship and b) remove her deniability and expose this for what it is.

Exposure of the true nature of this affair would probably end it overnight. Your WS and the OM would no longer be able to deny the true nature of their affair to you and the OMW and would be forced out into the open. The affair can only survive in an aura of secrecy.

I think probably that the OMW is not ok with the affair at all and probably does not know the true nature of it. She is likely being told the same thing you are being told; it is an innocent "friendship." She would change her tune real quick if she saw a chat log showing that there it is a romantic affair. Even so, in regards to the OMW, you only have the "word" of someone who is trying to conceal the true nature of the affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>With respect to the above quote, your wife quite possibly DOES think of her relationship with OM as "just friends." Not understanding what an Emotional Affair is, she may well think it's not an affair unless they have sex. Time and learning will change that too, but one quick way to "prove" the affair nature is to say something along the lines of "okay, as with any addiction, if you are not addicted then it should be fairly easy to simply stop the activity and not have withdrawal symptoms. Can you simply "walk away" from contact if that is what your husband NEEDS or is the relationship more important than your spouse?"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Georgia Guy, I'm also with FH on this... As a FWW who have been in an e-mail “friendship” with OM for almost 3 years, I can tell you the chances are great that your W really view her EA with OM as just a “friendship”. She is most probably in self-denial right now and lying to herself in order to justify this “friendship” with OM. Regarding my own situation: After me and OM’s “friendship” ended; after I started experience intense withdrawal and after I started reading & learning about opposite sex friendships and discovered this website, I realized the existence of EA’s and that I was involved in one… I was of the opinion that if nothing phsyical is going on and if there is no declaration of feelings or any intimate discussions, then it isn't an A. Even after I’ve develop inappropriate feelings and emotional attachment towards OM, I still view my involvement with OM as a “close friendship” with a “caring friend”. I was naieve and in self-denail. It would be very helpful and it will probably open your W’s eyes to the truth if you buy the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass and give it to your W to read.

Blessings,
Suzet

As a start you can give this article to your W to read.

Suzet

GG...u have to make a boundary here. I appreciate that you have already established that your W can only see her friend in public. Heck..u can make out bigtime in public! The boundary needs to be that she cannot see this man alone AT ALL. It is simply too risky.

GG...u have to make a boundary here. I appreciate that you have already established that your W can only see her friend in public. Heck..u can make out bigtime in public! The boundary needs to be that she cannot see this man alone AT ALL. It is simply too risky. If she needs to talk alone with him she can do this online and on the phone and does!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTW - Her "friend" does not work, but his W does. My W wants time alone with him while OMW is at work. We've agreed that this can only take place in a public setting, not alone.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, Georgia Guy, I'm getting out the nerf 2x4. I'll leave the solid oak 2x4 for later if it's needed.

No doubt you are a pretty nice guy and not overbearing. No doubt you are very unsure about "what to do" and perhaps afraid of potential negative reactions if you are "too insistant."

YOU are being manipulated so that you will feel like the bad guy in order to facilitate their affair. We agreed...?

GG, if you don't believe by now that you marriage is in SERIOUS trouble, you had better start believing it very soon.

I reiterate my previous advice to you....your wife is NEVER to be alone with the OM. Whereever your wife goes...YOU GO! If you must, have lunch with them, but your wife does NOT get to meet with him ALONE at any time.

My W wants time alone with him while OMW is at work.

Can there be a bigger RED FLAG that this?!! They want to meet when the OM's wife CAN'T be there?! They want to meet ALONE, without your presence?!

You seem to think that allowing them to meet alone is okay and harmless just so long as it is done in a PUBLIC place? Do you have any idea how much can be said and exchanged in public? Do you have any idea how much the "public" could care less what they do?

I'm going to say this one more time. CONFRONTATION is needed and CRISIS is going to have to precipitated....IF you are serious about wanting to remain married to your wife.

The gloves are off. Your wife will not listen to you or admit to an affair. So what? That is NORMAL behavior for someone who IS in an affair, regardless of whether or not they are in denial of it to themselves. They HAVE to lie and deny because they know deep down that it is very wrong, and in your wife's case, she KNOWS it's a grievous sin against God AND you. This is Satan's great lie...."God didn't REALLY mean what He said...".

Now, you don't have to be belligerant, but you do have to be firm, resolute, and unyielding in your insistance and commitment to NEVER allow your wife to be alone with the OM anywhere, or at anytime. Do you really think that they will "make lovey dovey" with you present, or with you absent?

This is NOT an easy time. This is a time where you take your role as husband and your commitment to your marriage vows SERIOUSLY no matter how "uncomfortable" it might make you feel. You are to protect your wife against all threats...and GG, there is no bigger threat than this OM right now. Are you willing to "die" for your wife? If so, then stand in the "line of fire" that your wife might throw at you. Stand in the "line of fire" between them.

If you don't, you will likely reach the point that I reached with my wife. My wife, her OM, and me were all standing within about 5 feet of each other when the OM asked her what she wanted. She responded, "I want you." Believe me when I tell you...THAT precipitated a CRISIS! That is when I told her to come home, pack up, an leave. I believed our marriage was indeed over, no matter how much I loved her and was willing to work on recovering our marriage. Thank God that He intervened and she realized what she was doing, but that was AFTER she moved out.

Do you really want to wait that long? I can tell you that recovery is MUCH harder and much less likely of being successful if you wait.

Don't wait. Don't take "no" for an answer. Don't allow her to manipulate your "good senses" to get what she wants....alone time with the enemy of your marriage and the tool that Satan is using to destroy your marriage and your wife's and your relationship with Christ.

God bless. Now go and do the right thing!

Ouch !! That nerf 2X4 hurt!

Okay, let me see if I can sort this out.

Confrontation has happened big time. I know that my marriage is in SERIOUS trouble (so does she, even though she says she has not interest in leaving me). However, I think I read in some of Dr. H's stuff that you can't stop the A by putting them WS a cage. Even if you did, it will continue when the cage is open.

W said she is going to see OM with or without me. She asked that I go, said she wants me to go, etc. I waited 4 days before replying, during which I met with my much trusted advisor his counsel. His thought was that I had no choice but to go because the risk of PA was overwhelming if I did not go.

When I told her that my choice was to go with her, I made it clear as to why (temption was great and I am still her husband). Also, I made it clear that by going I in no way condone the relationship or the meeting.

To further expound on the "public place", W suggested it be in the coffee shop where OMW's works while she is there.

GG - Okay, so I was unaware from your previous posting that they plan to meet at the coffee shop where his wife works. That's "better," but unless you have some way to be certain they arrive separately and leave separately, it's just a "half truth."

"Did you go to the grocery store like you said you were going to do?"

"Yes, but it was crowded and it took longer than I originally expected."

Truth: She DID go to the grocery store.

Lie of Omission: She went there AFTER seeing the OM and "forgot" to include that in her response to your question.

Can't tell you how many times I went through this sort of thing over the course of my wife's 6 year affair (that started as a 'friendship' and spiraled deeper and deeper).

So, I've given you about all the advice that I can on this matter. As with all advice, YOU have to decide what to take and what to discard. It IS your marriage and your situation.

I pray it goes well. But make no mistake about it, the "friendship" must end permanently and completely or your marriage will never be just "you and her." There will always be another man occupying part of her mind and emotions and you will forever be "looking over your shoulder."

God bless.

Make no mistake about it, the whole thing stinks. I had rather not be going at all, but I will insure that I control the mode of transportation to get from point A to point B. I have on my side that we live 3,000 miles apart.

As you can see, I am up late adding this post. W is on computer with OM, I told her I was going out for a drive and here I am at work checking my postings.

I told her when I left, without LB, that she needs to calmly say to herself "I am a married woman sitting up at 3:30 A.M. talking to another man".

I don't think it'll make much difference, but a reality check never hurts.

Georgia Guy,
WOW! Okay get SpectorPro download it from the online site SpectorSoft.com. If you want to get the reports of what is being said while your are at work you can get eblaster. There are some other similar products out there.

I used a different software package to monitor our computer. My W got into talking to men while she played cards. She usually told me about the conversations and the IM’s. She learned how to IM in a way that the archive would not keep up with what she said or she would delete the conversations and lie about it.

I loaded another package called BigBrother on my computer and monitored her conversations. I even used my wireless laptop to get involved in conversations with her. I think that eventually she would have “met” someone online that would have led to a real EA and PA. I also learned that she had a short EA an year earlier with someone she worked with by tracking her emails and IM.

Collect the evidence go with her to the OM, and give copies of the IM’s and emails to every one his W, OM and your W. Have a couple in envelopes to mail to the kids. Don’t tell her how you got the information and don’t let her know you have it till you can spring it on everyone. This way they will not be able to come up with a story. You might also want to contact a lawyer and prepare for the worse. Good luck from a Tennessee Guy.

By the way she blamed me for letting her flirt on the internet and not stopping her sooner.

We are doing much better now at DDay + 15 months.