After talking with her today I noticed that she didn't seem the same. You know, blowing off hanging out this week as if she was too busy. So tonight I drove by OP house and sure enough her car was there. I am going to tell this b$tch to hit the road tomorrow. F her! She is the most selfish piece of sh$t I have ever met and she deserves that POS. Tomorrow I say goodbye for good.

Sorry your hopes have been smashed Juke. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Please consider carefully your next action. You XW is very confused IMO, and there IS hope for reconciliation. I bet XW doesn't know WHAT she wants and is making reconciling smalltalk with both OM and yourself to see which fits her head best.

I will not advise, as wiser heads here wil be more use.

All blessings.

juke,

I am really sorry. It's not the actual betrayal as much as the DAMN LYING.

I mean, if you have to LIE about it then you KNOW it's wrong, or else WHY WOULD YOU LIE???

Maniacal.

I hope this is encouragement for you, I think either Bob Pure or Tom Joad said it on another thread. You are YOUNG. You have a LOT of life ahead of you and your are not bogged down with kids and years of marriage.

The best degrees come from the school of experience. If what you say is true about the XW, you may be better off w/out her. Think about what a great H you will be to the next Mrs. Juke. Think about how appreciative SHE will be to you as a H. Think about what a good job you will do as a dad, now that you have all this M struggle out of the way on your "practice run."

RAP and I married young. We toughed it out, but are STRUGGLING now. You may not see it, but you truly are poised to have a great life ahead of you, if you but take a breath and stop and learn from this.

I know it doesn't feel like it now, but take it from us "old guys." It's true.

NCWalker

Calm down first because whatever you decide it should be based on rational not irrational actions.

Juke,

TMCM is right. Calm down.

"Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting." - Ben Franklin.

NCW.

PS - What, exactly, is CALM to someone called TooMuchCoffeeMAN. Can you even distinguish between Mr. Rogers and Charles Bronson? I would think we ALL look pretty calm. Sorry. Couldn't resist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ncwalker:

PS - What, exactly, is CALM to someone called TooMuchCoffeeMAN. Can you even distinguish between Mr. Rogers and Charles Bronson? I would think we ALL look pretty calm. Sorry. Couldn't resist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure I can.

Mr Rogers is me after having downed 1 pot of the evil brew.

Charles Bronson is me after my Mr Coffee breaks down.

Juke

You know very well A's are addictions. She's getting her "fix". Let the A implode. Stand clear, and stay dark. Get busy living. The previous calls to you from her are signs all is not well in their R, but you need to be patient and let her make the first series of moves.

Disattach from the emotions. Let time run it's course. Remember, she believed in the A so much she allowed the D to go through. Set a reasonable time that you can endure, and when the time passes, you'll have your answers.

SD

This is all ridiculous. I don't need to wait on this b$tch when she is the one who royaly screwed our marriage. Let him treat her like crap because she has become crap and I don't know why I even care about her anymore. She has betrayed me more than anyone in my entire life and I really hate her for it now. Let him abuse her however because she is keeping herself around it, so she is asking for it. This is the last straw. It's over.

Juke,

Think it through. We are both up too late. Get some sleep.

If it's worth it, follow the advice of the board and Harley.

If it's not, move on. But if you move on, make sure you have done your best. You don't want to second guess this the rest of your life.

NCW

juke...so sorry once again.

I'm gonna disagree--sorta--with everyone here: let it all out, man. Let the anger go. Give it all you got. But do it here. Use as as the sounding board. Do it ONLY here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't need to wait </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You never did "have to." It was your choice to. And once again, you were deceived. You don't deserve this. She doesn't deserve you. No more waiting. You're in a different place. If there's ever a chance for reconciliation with you, she needs to realize she needs to catch up with you. Don't digress. Leave your anger here. Then go live.

Prayers and best wishes are with you, man. Not to mention a beer or two!

Juke, I'm so sorry. Your xw is very, very immature.

Whatever you do, please don't let this make you bitter. You are a young man with a great deal to offer any woman.

Your xw has a great deal of growing up to do.


You're already there.

Jen

(((((((((((((((((((((Juke))))))))))))))))))))))

I am SO sorry. I am almost crying after reading your ost - there are tears in my eyes. I know how much this hurts, how angry you must feel. I have had my own similar experiences, and there's not much worse than thinking you have this miracle chance at recovery only to be betrayed and lying to once again.

That said, I do think there is still a possibility of rcovery, if you did still want it - she is just getting her "fix", like someone else said.
BUT, I think it's clear what happened here. She freaked when she thought her R with OM was over or nearing its end and she was making sure you would still be there - HER Plan B, her blankie.
It was less about realizing mistakes and more about panicking.

I hope you got some sleep last night.
I hope this morning brings a brighter day for you, Juke.

Aw, juke, I'm sorry.

Hon, only you know when it's over. I think you've still got a good chance of recovery too, HOWEVER..there is only so much one person can take. There comes a point where we no longer want to forgive..where we want to hold onto our anger so that it's easier to let go of the one who caused so much pain. Maybe you are at that point.

I know what I'd be thinking...I'd be sending her a link to the old MB site...then I'd walk away and let her Plan A her [censored] off if she wants you back. But that's just me. I think there comes a point where many BS are ready to leave the relationship behind..but there is also a small part of them that wants their WS to come back to them, as desperate for a reconciliation as they once were.

juke, whatever you decide you know we are all behind you, ready to give our support. Just please take your time. I wouldn't burn any bridges no matter what you decide to do, but that's the only real advice I can give. Please take care.

I mean, I could give her the benefit of the doubt because she does get off of school late at night and may not have all of her stuff out of that house yet, but I doubt that's why she was there. I am just basing that on how she was with me on the phone. I am going to drive by there this am and see if she spent the night. Then I will know for sure what's up.

Juke,

I meant to post to you yesterday, but had to pretend to work....and I'm sorry I didn't. After WW's first A, we had a "recovery" that led to A#2 about 4 months later, and I was too stupid/blinded to see it. I wanted to tell you to be really cautious......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I mean, I could give her the benefit of the doubt because she does get off of school late at night and may not have all of her stuff out of that house yet, but I doubt that's why she was there. I am just basing that on how she was with me on the phone. I am going to drive by there this am and see if she spent the night. Then I will know for sure what's up.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly, juke. Honestly. She would have been there with a friend, a family member if that's all she was there for. You know that.

Keep in mind through all of this: You aren't married anymore! (And don't think OM didn't present this to your WW.) There is absolutely nothing that binds you together except your past.

Here's my advice to you. Be honest. Tell her that you had an interest in working on a relationship, but saw her car at OM's house. Tell her that it is not constructive for you to be involved with her at this time. And turn and walk. (Actually turn and go. No conversation, no explanation from either of you. Just go.) Not angry, not sad, but what is the safest thing for juke. Period. Let her sort through it. On her own.

Set a timetable for how long you want to wait. Set a CLEAR boundary on this matter (OM). Crystal clear. I think my inability to set and maintain boundaries is what enabled my WW to be "OK" with multiple A's. Take it from someone who's been there. She has to see, understand and respect that boundary. And set it with actions, not just words.

I think you can still recover a R with your XW, if you choose. She has shown remorse, (no matter how contrived) and that is good. She seems to have defined what is right and wrong, she's just having a hard time choosing right. Give her time and space to do that. The benefit for you is that you can protect yourself, which HAS to come first.

Good luck,
Ethan

Juke, this is so hard to see. You're on quite the roller coaster.

Now about that drive you took by OM's house...

Sure, you can say it was simple information gathering. But your need to have that information shows that you have not detached enough. You're still that rag doll tied to the back of the truck. The water skier who has fallen but still holds the rope (I love these stupid analogies).

For heaven's sake, man, let go. There is no need to be belligerent - it's such a useless emotion. Your anger is justified (isn't it always?), but it serves no purpose for you. You aren't in danger, and you don't need the alertness and confidence it provides. You can't use the anger for anything that will help you.

Try to find some peace away from your XW's swings. Of course she's going to have them. But you will be no good to yourself or to a possible future partner if you lug around a heavy load of bitterness.

Demand nothing, be compassionate, and LET GO.

And go beat up on something before your head bursts.

GC

(edited out redundant stuff)

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

The next time your XW contacts you, PLEASE act civil and if you can't then politely excuse yourself from her. Once you regain your composure and are able to control your anger and bitterness, then talk with her about what her goals are as far as you and her.

Juke, mine is a liar also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Your XW has lied to you for a long long ..... long time. Don't expect it to change right away. But do not be her safety blanket. She wants to feel that Juke will always be waiting for her no matter what stupid, selfish, self-destructive, thing she does.

Don't let her feel that way. You are divorced. Be cordial to her, do not wait. Do not let her fog, or manipulative behaivor influence you.

I read this many times on here and totally believe it. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe nothing that she says and only half of what she does. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Darn Juke, I'd be lying if I didn't say I thought this would happen. Wish I could buy you a beer and a cigar.

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Juke
I have read you´re posts and I feel for you.
When I was in plan B I actually had quiet a good time. I was to stupid to understand my wife had an A I thought she just wanted to divorce. But anyway we had no contact for a couple of weeks.

Believe it or not I actually bloomed there for a few weeks. Hanging out with friends, meeting women, drinking beer. I felt alot of relief actually from not having to think about my wife all the time not having to think about what she was doing or thinking about how to win her back etc..Then when my wife suddenly wanted back in and told me what really had been going on while we were separated. Thats when the hard stuff started.

So my advice to you is. LIVE. Do whatever you like. Imagine you´re in college and life is about chasing women and drinking beer. And forget about ur ex-w for a while. Don´t call don´t nothing. One day she probably will come crawling back.
And then you can call the shots. I mean there comes a time when u just have to put ur foot down or u will be eaten up. Doing this she will know that if she doesn´t behave you will just move on. But don´t scream or LB before going into plan B. Just do it.

Juke,

I know you thought my response to you yesterday was too harsh. And NOW???? I will be harsh with you again. Stop the name calling, stop the ranting, and realize she has NOT lied to you in awhile. ALL of her actions have been very consistent. What she says may vary, but the actions...they are consistent.

You have now swung too far to the other end of this, when the right response is to get on with your life and live a great life. You are not married to her, you are not dating her, she owes you nothing, and you owe her nothing. She is free to spend her time as she pleases, and now it pleases her to NOT spend it with you. Face it, deal with it, and get the greatest revenge of all.

And I quote </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The best revenge is a life well lived.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I keep thinking it was Churchill who stated that but perhaps it was Shaw. However, the point is clear. It is time to "step from the roller coaster with all due grace" and get on with your life.

I am telling you she is NOT lying to you. She met another man, she filed for divorce, she did NOT blink once and her actions today are consistent. Hence my comments to you yesterday, pay attention to the actions they don't lie, and surely not with her.

Move on with your life. If at some point your two lives intersect, perhaps things might work out, but for that to happen YOU my young friend need to be much stronger than you are. You need to be on your feet emotionally as well as physically.

Take stock of yourself, decide what you want to do with and in your life and start doing it. What is it you want to do, see, experience before you are 30? Write them down and start the process. You have 4 years so you had better hurry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Juke, calm down and start to work on yourself and your life. Your options will be plentiful.

God Bless,

JL