it still doesn't make easy to take from the one you love. We here may call it fog talk but at the moment the WS truly has these feelings.
My W told me the other night it wasn't about her A that she could have had many. Not that she meant she had the opportunity but that wasn't why she felt the way she did. I couldn't help myself I actually laughed but didn't say what I was really thinking for fear of LB.
Also the whole I never had feelings for you. (Our life has just been a lie?)
I do try to remove myself and remember it is not who my W really is, but it makes me wonder.
How do others deal with "fog" talk?(I know this topic has been done, I just want to talk about it)
Also when do WS realize how ridiculous some of this stuff sounds?
CR

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Coasterride ]</small>

It must be so difficult and I am so sorry you are going through this.

I'm no expert, but I wonder if you can detach from the words by picturing your S a few months from now, looking back on those words incredulously? It has happened time and time again to people on this site. Its not going to last.

Yes, I do try to detach. I also try to think about the future and my W "waking up." However, it is just difficult at times and makes me wonder if she ever will.
CR

Coast

I started my journey on detachment yesterday and i must say that there is something to it. I am an emotional person and i need to detach emotional from the sitch. for example....

Last night ww says that she is going to her fathers on sat....first thouhgt was that she is using that as an excuse to go and see OM...and is probrbly the case....i didnt react....i didnt even ask why....she was looking for a reaction....i automatically assumed that she was spending the night there and that she was actually going out with OM and the thoughts of both of them togeher (sexually) popped in my head.....I caught my self....i said what am i doing..why am i thinking this....i am killing me...What i also think is that she may be going to meet with an attorney that her father ahs set up. She has been re-writing history so much that her family is now activly helping her get out of M....Then it hit me to detach....i took myself out of the sitch for a sec and looked in on it.

I felt better....i slept better...without opening my mouth i was able to process this and place it on her table and not deal or react to it in any way.

thanks for the replies. I am usually good at detatching myself from what W says and don't take it too personal. But sometimes it is just hard to do and makes me wonder. My W is usually so rational and knows what she wants. When she says these things she seems so certain.
Anyway, How do others deal with "fog" talk?
Also when do WS realize how ridiculous some of this stuff sounds?
CR

Coasterride..I'm not sure there is any "good" way to deal with the fog talk.

I also wonder if what he says is the truth. Maybe he always did have huge doubts. Maybe he always did believe that we were not really compatible. Maybe he really did go through with the wedding because he wasn't ready to lose me at the time.

But ya know what? I also know that's just crap. My husband is also very rational, prone to doing the right thing, etc...I am to believe that he just lost his head during the wedding? I don't think so.

One thing I never ever doubted was that he DID love me very much. I believe he still loves me know. I think he just doesn't see a way around the problems we have, and his rational mind knows that it IS possible and that we should try..but his maturity level just isn't letting him do that.

Coasterride, detachment really is the best way. However also tell yourself this: Your wife is having to rewrite history and TALK HERSELF OUT OF LOVING YOU! How pathetic and miserable is that? To have to talk yourself out of loving someone? It may not help a LOT, but it might be a small comfort to know that it is so difficult for her to do this, that she has to make stuff up in order to be successful at it. She cannot live with her actions in good conscience so she needs to change the past in order to justify and make HERSELF feel better. She may think she's telling you this crap so that you'll understand her POV and that you two were never meant to be..but really, she's trying to convince herself of it so she can live with herself.

*hugs*

Thanks for the reply. I agree in some ways my W is rewriting history. For example, the bit about never having feelings for me-how ridiculous.
But in other ways my W and I guess all WS are not rewriting history but just dwelling on all bad things of our past.
Still looking for more comments and possible answers to questions posted.
Thanks,
CR

Coasterride - I know how you feel. My W seems so rational and certain as she says some of the most devastating things to me. She is so convincing that I have thought about starting a topic about how to distinguish fog talk from truth. I start to wonder if maybe she really is speaking some non-foggy truth. Obviously some of her comments are ridiculous because she is trying to rewrite our history. The one comment that gets me every time though is when she just looks at me and says "I'm done". She says that so freaking convincingly that it kills me everytime. Emotional detachment is the key. Actually emtionally detaching yourself is the challenge. I suck at it because I am a sensitive, emotional person. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve.
It is hard when the person you love is rewritting your history together. It is hard when the person you love treat's you with cold indifference. It is hard blowing off the cruel comments that are made. But it is what I have to endure everytime I talk to my W.

Coasterride, I am not sure of your whole history, but I am familiar with the biting comments that come from a WS. They hurt worse than anything in the world. When they start coming I just start saying to myself 'I love my spouse and this is just her pathetic way of dealing with her sin. You are lashing out at me because you don't know how you are ever going to make this better again.' The pain is still there, but it lessens the blow. I am in Plan A right now. My WW has not been successful in NC thus far, she still contacts him via email and occassional call. (He doesn't live in the area) I can say though that since the affair was exposed she has very slowly been taking off the rose colored glasses and the fog talk has thinned considerably. It still comes out, but I have made sure to spend as much time as I can with my WW and to try and meet her emotional needs in a way I never have before. It is working. She commented over a week ago that I was a cut above the OM. Why she still contacts him after a comment like that is beyond me. I think he built up significant positive emotional deposits with her which have yet to be totally withdrawn. I believe and trust that day is coming, however, when she will be repulsed by him and the fact that she ever let him bed her. When that day comes I won't rub her nose in it, but just take her hand and say it is time to move forward and quit looking back. Hang tough Coasterride!

Kay
3 months ago my FWW told me :

She can't believe she could ever have been content with me
OM say divorce hae been good for his kids - makes them resilient
its not the size its what you do with it.
She doesn't care enough about me to hate me.

etc

NOW she says :
she can't believe she ever stopped seeing what a wonderful man I am
She says D would of destroyed our kids and she would never have subjected them to that
That OM was an utter let down in the sack,and its made her much more appreciative of me who she has taken for granted these years
She had to actually TRY to remember to hate me during teh A as her love for me kept coming into her mind at inappropriate times.

and lots of others.

It is FOG ! It doesn't matter if they believe whet they say or not, its mentally unstable horsesh1t. If a tourettes syndrom sufferer tells you to f'k off, they don't really WANT you to f'k off, its just comes out owing to a mental instability.

Your spouses WILL de-fog and they will be very hurt , guilty an dembarassed by some of the cr@p they spout. FACT I am not making this up !

be strong and laugh at it. Do a search on 'fog compendium' and see some of the funniest fog folks WS have pumped into the atmosphere !

All blessings

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Emotional detachment can make the Journey of Plan A a little easier to endure.

Try to think of it in this way.

You now have two spouses. The first one, the one you love and cherish, has been cloned ,but something went dreadfully wrong. Instead of being just like the old one, the clone is a horrible alter-ego. Everything BAD that your real spouse is GOOD.

The clone will say the most hurtful things. The clone will attempt to provoke you in any way with Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements and other ways to make you angry and agressive, to make you out to be the "bad spouse" they have to have, in order to justify the affair. The clone will be "in love" with their "soulmate" and "loves you, but is not in love with you" anymore. The clone will forsake marriage, children, friends, relatives UNLESS they fully support them in their A.

These two spouses will wobble back and forth with their combined presence in your life. Sometime you can't tell them apart. Sometimes it's self-evident.

So how do you react? You eliminate all LoveBusters from your life. Permanently. You treat both spouses with loving kindness and respect. You "identify" the clone by the angry words and actions, and since you KNOW that's not the spouse you love and cherish, you DISREGARD those things, because you KNOW IT'S NOT YOUR SPOUSE!

Is it hard? Yep, at first. But simply make a game of it. And when WS sees that their FOG borne actions make no impact on you, THAT's when Plan A goes into HIGH GEAR. Practice it for a couple of days, and you'll get the hang of it. It will get easier with each passing day.

Avoid relationship talks with either spouse. When they're in the fog, it will only provoke them. Be kind, gentle, thoughtful and loving at all times. Put your "taker" on the shelf, as "he/she" won't be getting any action for a while. Be consumed with being the "giver", because "he/she" will be working overtime for a while.

Once you learn to do this emotional detachment, and become relaxed in your interaction with your WS, you will begin to make headway. Although it may not seem that anything you do is making an impact or impression your WS, do not be fooled. They WILL notice, and those continuous deposits in their LB$ will begin to add up, and they then will become introspective about their A. They will begin to question their actions, and wonder if they are willing to give up what they "have and know" for the great unknown of the OP.

Read Plan A until it is a part of you. It has worked for many. It worked for me. It can work for you, as well.

Best wishes
SD

I didn't know about MB or fogtalk while I was going through the worst of it. But even now, knowing it is fogtalk, it still feels like being stabbed in the heart with a knife. For me, nothing can take away the sting of your beloved spouse looking at you with all the passion and strength of emotion they posses and saying to your face, "I don't love you", "You make me sick", etc.
Fogtalk or not, it is still the worst pain I've ever experienced.