We started talking on another thread, so I moved our conversation here. Can someone help Big Mark? He feels that his spouse (who has admitted to an EA but not a PA) is not being truthful. There have been some other issues between them, and I believe that Big Mark came here thinking (at least in part) that divorce was the only option.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BigMark:
<strong>
Don't worry Deeppain - I have not had a good nights sleep since I discovered my W alleged EA in February. That is why I am getting to the end of this thing. You know, one thing really sticks in my mind that I am sure is a common theme for all H in this situation. When I first discovered the alleged EA I was completely devasted and thinking of ending it all. My lovely W knew this and kept telling me how much she loved me and that it was over. Well, guess what! She kept staying in touch with him on her new covert cell phone. When I asked to see the bill she refused and broke down telling me that she has stayed in contact with him even after the discovery of the alleged EA. Gee, sounds like she really loves me alot - come on people! Those are just words and mean nothing because the actions clearly state that she has taken him over me!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
<strong>
Big Mark- I'm sure you have heard it said on this board before that an affair is like an addiction. Addicts have a hard time stopping their self-destructive behavior. Have you had her write a NC letter? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BigMark:
<strong>

Sadfww, What is an NC letter again? I would recommend a tab on this site to easily translate all of the acronyms at any time - it would be very helpful...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
<strong>
The NC letter is a No Contact letter. I'm sure there is a post around here with acronyms explained- I just haven't been here long enough to know where it is!

Here's a link about the NC letter:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

If you haven't read through the articles on Coping with Infidelity- DO! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BigMark:
<strong>

Sadfww, I certainly hope Deeppain is also learning from some of our discussions. Thanks for the detail behind the NC letter. The one thing that is critical to the whole equation is that the WS admits everything and can write the letter. If you continue to hear it was just an EA but yet lies are constantly experienced on a weekly basis, one would have to start focusing more on moving on. The WS will claim they cannot write a letter for something that has not happened or is no longer happening. This is called TRUST and w/o verification you are really going out on another weak branch that will eventually lead to a fall that will hurt, again. How many falls do we need before we cannot take it anymore? To be quite honest my WS has made a few adjustments in her behavior that were needs for me and I have done nothing in return other than throw more LB's! I just cannot start working on her EN's until I know where my starting point is. Is this wrong? I am still relatively young (40) and may have a much brighter future ahead of me w/o her</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Sadfww ]</small>

Poor Mark needs some direction and assistance, and a whole bunch of

((((HUGS))))....

Mark.... come in here and talk!

Pep

(Sad... you may want to change the thread title so Mark knows where we are???)

Thanks everyone. Actually I posted a few days ago for my situation "Is it really just an emotional affiar - spelling was off". I read Deeppains situation and had some feedback for what it was worth. I plan on continuing MC until December but feel she will never admit anything and play the game until the end. She has lied extensively throughout our marriage about opening charge accounts and other things but claimed she never lied about any A's. However, everytime I read any list on the signs she is having a PA she achieves 80% or higher scores! It is sad to say but most folks on the site actually don't know how lucky they are to have their WS actually admit what is going on no matter how severe. At least they know where they stand! Imagine going on the rest of your life assuming something that is not reality. Ever see About Schmidt???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BigMark:
[QBI plan on continuing MC until December but feel she will never admit anything and play the game until the end. She has lied extensively throughout our marriage about opening charge accounts and other things but claimed she never lied about any A's. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Big Mark- Can I ask which of your own actions you think have contributed to the state of your relationship?

Sadfww, The two main faults on my side of the issue (and I take full responsibility for them) are a general lack of Emotional Support - I am so wrapped up in keeping the family going (I do the majority of the cleaning, worrying, organization, and earning) that I do not spend enough time supporting her emotionally and she does need alot of this type of support and there have been some family issues whereby my family members did not openly accept my wife from the beginning (not sure why but I think they thought she did not give me enough freedom) and this has really been a huge issue with her over the years. At one point about 8 years ago my brother was screaming at her for not letting me go on a trip with them in front of everyone and I did not stick up for her. However, these instances have happened years ago and there have not been any recent occurences partly due to the fact that I do not see my family that much anymore.

As a side note I do also have a bit of a self esteem issue and I am being tested for possible Adult ADHD ADD based on a hunch from our Marriage Counselor. I have always had a bit of a pessimistic/depressive behavior over the years and I am sure that does not contribute to the overall situation.

Mark, do you self-medicate with alcohol or drugs?

Pep

Pep, Do not take drugs and drink beer or wine usually on the weekends and rarely to the point of being smashed.

GREAT!

I asked coz I have an ADD/ADHD kid, and it is not unusual for someone who is severely affected to self-medicate... I was not trying to insuinuate anything about you personally!

Do you think there is some part of you willing to fight for your marriage?

Pep

Pep, No offense taken - unlike my WS I believe in total honesty if I am going to get anywhere in this situation. The main reason I am here is to get different perspectives and make the most educated decision - Maybe I still think I am in Graduate School and have to research everything to death!

You question is one I have been asking myself for sometime now even before the alleged EA was discovered. I also am trying to dig deep inside and wonder if I am sticking around a little longer just for my 3 kids or for what is left of the love for my WS. Our MC has us trying to role play Plan B even though we are still physically together. We have tried to pretend we were actually D but have been intimate and closely together many times. I just know something is going in my gut and feel that she is so fake in her words.

What scares me is that I have been dead on with everything that I knew she was lying about and caught her red handed. If I am right about all of those things, it is a pretty good track record.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BigMark:
<strong> Sadfww, The two main faults on my side of the issue (and I take full responsibility for them) are a general lack of Emotional Support - I am so wrapped up in keeping the family going (I do the majority of the cleaning, worrying, organization, and earning) that I do not spend enough time supporting her emotionally and she does need alot of this type of support and there have been some family issues whereby my family members did not openly accept my wife from the beginning (not sure why but I think they thought she did not give me enough freedom) and this has really been a huge issue with her over the years. At one point about 8 years ago my brother was screaming at her for not letting me go on a trip with them in front of everyone and I did not stick up for her. However, these instances have happened years ago and there have not been any recent occurences partly due to the fact that I do not see my family that much anymore.

As a side note I do also have a bit of a self esteem issue and I am being tested for possible Adult ADHD ADD based on a hunch from our Marriage Counselor. I have always had a bit of a pessimistic/depressive behavior over the years and I am sure that does not contribute to the overall situation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mark, believe me when I say that I am NOT attacking you. But your posts above indicate to me that you really DON'T see that you need to work on anything in your M. You say that you haven't met your W's EN's..but then hasten to add that you are too busy holding the house & family together to do it (presumptively b/c your W doesn't do anything around the house??) And then you say that there were some problems with your family where you didn't support her- but then also hasten to add that that was a long time ago.

Have both of you filled out the EN quizzes?

edited for duplicate post

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Sadfww ]</small>

Sadfww, yes I agree that I am part of this failure and have not taken action yet. Here is where I stand right now - I can make a huge effort in changing my bad ways but have to understand that my WS may continue having her fun and enjoying life from both sides! Does anyone recommend that I leap into this and take that risk forgetting everything that happened and hoping for the best? What if the A goes on indefinitely??? Remember, she has not been fully honest about what really happened... Does this choice seem logical? I am totally open for feedback. This is indeed a huge decision and I have not yet taken action to repair since I have been so focused on catching her in the act!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BigMark:
<strong> Sadfww, yes I agree that I am part of this failure and have not taken action yet. Here is where I stand right now - I can make a huge effort in changing my bad ways but have to understand that my WS may continue having her fun and enjoying life from both sides! Does anyone recommend that I leap into this and take that risk forgetting everything that happened and hoping for the best? What if the A goes on indefinitely??? Remember, she has not been fully honest about what really happened... Does this choice seem logical? I am totally open for feedback. This is indeed a huge decision and I have not yet taken action to repair since I have been so focused on catching her in the act! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mark- read about plan A- and plan B. Plan A has to do with YOU becoming the best MARK you can be. You won't lose by trying- at the very least you will feel good about yourself- and it may reap benefits with your W that you don't think are possible. Please read it- and try it!!! Pretty please- with sugar and cherries on top? I promise- it isn't a waste of your time. As someone else here has said, you have the rest of your life to divorce your wife. IF you weren't at least a little bit interested in holding your M together I can bet you wouldn't be bothering to post here or to talk to me (the enemy- a FWW)

Blessings to you and yours.

Mark IF you LB [love bust] your W with angry outbursts, selfish demands and disrespectful judgements, then you are not creating an environment where honesty from your W is going to be forthcoming. Avoiding all LB [love busters: angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, independent behavior and annoying habits] is the first part of Plan A.

Okay, so what Sadfww and TMCM are suggesting is that I go forward with the actions under my control in Plan A, correct? The NC letter and first step of admission are not possible at this time due to my WS lying behavior. Do I just turn that piece of Plan A off for now? Just trying to understand the approach and the anticipated outcome...

bump- hope someone can help guide Big Mark here- I don't have enough experience with Plan A myself to know how to "tailor" it!

Mark

Please read What Are Plan A And Plan B . Here's an excerpt:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Repeating what I said in my previous post, unless you create an emotional environment in which your W can feel safe in opening up her innermost thoughts and feelings to you, then your desire for honesty on her part will not be realized. Plan A can help create this emotionally safe environment.