I've been in plan a 3 months. I've had some set backs, but mostly pretty good plan a.

We live together, sleep together, spend evenings together. At one point during plan a, I stayed with a relative for a couple weeks. We still had contact and he asked me back.

Stayed with him for a few weeks but nothing had changed so I moved out for a month. Again we still had contact - talking and face to face - I'd spend the night occasionally.

The OW left for a different job while I was gone the second time. When we talked he brought up that he wanted things to work and that he loved me, etc.

I came home. For a month I've been plan a'ing. He still has contact with OW even though she's at a different job now.

This last wknd we went out Friday night. But Saturday night he wanted to meet with friends. I told him that it would really upset me if he met with the OW. He said not to worry. He met with OW along with a group of friends from work.

I reached my breaking point this last Tuesday. I asked for no contact with OW and until he can do this I will have no contact with him. I told him I would live with my parents for awhile.

Something came up where I can't leave as soon as I had wanted. So he suggested he would go live with a male colleague of his.

I haven't given him a plan b letter. I've just told him my plan. Is it needed ?

Should I say anything to his parents ? They know we are having trouble but no details.

Should I talk with the OW BF ? I'm not sure if he knows what's going on or not.

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, yes, and yes. Get your Plan B letter ready and post it here. Tell his parents what is going on, and the OW's boyfriend.

I second believer except put some hurry up on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This is way over due. Keep posting and reading to let us know how it is going. Do you have all the essential books? Surviving an Affair, and His Needs Her Needs are highly recommended.

C.

I have read all the books you've mentioned and others - DB and DR. When do you know you've reached the breaking point? I feel I've reached it. It seems all the work I've done in Plan A is unraveling.

He's moved into a male colleagues house - I asked him to. He's sleeping on an air mattress there. The colleague spends 65% of his time over at his GF house.

Here's the letter:

I hope you understand why I asked you to leave. Until you have broken all contact with OW, I will have no contact with you. Whether it's OW or a mid life crisis you are going through, when you contact OW, I feel tremendously hurt and disrespected.

I love you with all my heart and sincerely want our marriage to work. I hope this time apart will give you time to think and realize what's important in your life.

If you feel you have reached it then you have. No one is a better judge than you.

In theory, your love bank is the indicator of when it is time to go to plan B. That is of course unless there is physical violence involved. You need to go to plan B with enough love left to make it through recovery if there is to be one. I have heard of a few good plan A's that went too long and ended up robbing all the Love Units to the point that the BS was so fed up they didn't have it in them to go through plan B. So they went into withdrawl. And as Jennifer C. told me "when that happens you can just sign the D papers". So you see how critical it is to stay in tune with yourself and how you feel.

If you have sent the letter it is best not to back off now. That would send the wrong message. I have not been through plan B so I don't know what to tell you other than it will be rough at first and will get better with time. That is what I have heard. Plan B is to protect the BS and let the WS live with their decisions. Do not waiver from the plan. He will try to make contact do not give in. No Contact means No Contact and that is the deal.

Keep checking in and asking questions. You can do this. Stay strong and keep studying.

C.

The exposure to WH's parents and the OW's H is way overdue. You need to expose, out of love for your H. To help end his affair. This is one of the very 1st things Plan A calls for.

Be prepared to produce any evidence you have, but make sure you keep all originals. Be prepared for WH to be angry, but they all get that way, and it blows over pretty quickly.

Time to act! It's one of your strongest weapons.

Good luck
SD

I have proof of very pursuant behavior on his part. The OW just eats it up and is on a power trip. I don't believe she has any interest in him at all, but I could be wrong.

I got the proof through devious acts though. So I don't have any real proof beside a cell phone log to show in laws.

I'm not sure if they would believe me.

Amy, it is not "devious" to catch someone destroying you behind your back, it is protective and intelligent. Get moving and call his parents and call the OW BF ASAP.

This will blow things right open. When the explosion happens come back here and we can help you deal with the next step.

Whatever you do, don't tell your H that you plan on doing this but don't deny it when it calls and asks you about it afterwards. It is also important that you do all your exposing at the same time so that your H and OW don't have time to pre-empt you and frame the story their way.

<small>[ October 02, 2004, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Exposures are good. Just make sure they are chosen well. This is where I have found William Harley and Jennifer Chalmers differ. I have read where W Harley has said do everything but take out a billboard or something to that effect. Jennifer C. told me only tell the people that matter and can "make a difference". "Everybody doesn't need to know about this". At any rate you be the judge. The OW BF is probably in order as well as WH family. These are both good exposures as long as they will make a difference.

I think it was Jennifer C. or maybe Orchid that told me to make a list of potential exposures. On that list put who, how much to tell them, and why this exposure would help ME. The reasoning is that you are doing these exposures for yourself not as a malicious act. When WH freaks out on you then you need to tell him that you did these things for you. He needs to understand that this is part of your healing and you will get it how ever you need to. Hopefully that will not come to pass though. It will probably only lead to a lot of LBing by both of you. Besides your in Plan B and contact should be taboo right now. You are in Plan B right? I guess I just assumed that you had sent the letter above.

Good luck and keep posting.

C.

<small>[ October 02, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Thanks all for your support.

An update:

I asked him to move out - I wasn't think clearly at the time - very emotional. Anyway he did and want to a male colleagues house to stay. He was there a week. And I know that the pursuit on OW we on hot and heavy. She has a BF and still trying to figure out if she wants him or my H.

She's going to Vegas with her BF and my H got a little pissed at her saying that she shouldn't go. She said I don't like you when you talk like that - maybe we shouldn't talk at all. He apologized - but she still went (or is going) to Vegas with BF.

I asked him back to the house - he will sleep in the guest room - as roomates. I said I'm not ready to work on this - it's just for financial reason - we can't afford a rental and a mortgage.

So he came back. Making small talk with me and acting like we're old friends. He told OW that he was putting the rental on hold for now and that his EX (no papers have been filed and he barely can say the D word to me - I'm usu the one to say it) is staying at a friends house.

ALL LIES. It's like all he knows how to do is lie - lie to me - lie to himself - lie to OW.

We were cleaning out the garage and he said something about what a house down the street was getting for rent. I said I don't want to rent this house - I want to be through with it - I want to sell it. And then he continued. I said I'd rather not talk about that - our lawyers can discuss that. I was breaking down at this point.

He said we don't need lawyers - we can do this without lawyers. He said I'm sorry I upset you and try to give me a hug. I stepped back and shook my head.

Its very hard being nice to someone so slimy.

Please FWH -

Did you ever talk a future with OW, marriage, getting a house together, etc....

When I asked him back - I said I could handle seeing him and He said But I don't know if I can handle seeing you. I said why - you are the one being crappy to me. He said I know. I'm a reminder of just how crappy he is treating me.

Where Am I ?

amy,

unfortunantly yes I did....
talked about all those things, but in the back of my mind knew they were not possible, would never be... In that fog, you will be surprised at all the things that are said.. I can only speak from my own experience, but during the A you find yourself trying to please both the wife and the OW, saying things you know may not be true...

sounds like your H is deep in withdrawals, not wanting to let go of OW. This is the hardest part, (again from my experience). We all handle thing differently, for me I still work with the OW and have to maintain some contact with her. If I did not have to work with her, the withdrawals and no contact would be MUCH easier..

my opinion, since you H is back home, stay with the plan A... let him know your ready to make things work and want him to commit to you and make things work out. he needs to understand that commiting to you and the R means no contact with her. They no longer work together, they can't be friends outside work... (I wanted/tried this but know it can't be, can't work).

I may get a couple of 2x4s on this, but I'm not a big fan of no contact letters, exposing the A to others, etc. I know, I know, of course I'm not, I'm the FWH, well not true, I just think that if you both want it to work, those things do not have to be done. Again EVERY situation is different and should be handled accordingly..
go ahead, whack away at me with them 2x4s....

hope some of my fogless babble has helped..

fogless..

Thanks fogless for advice and insight.

I haven't given a plan b letter and still have contact with him. But hes still living at the male co-workers house.

He found out the other day that I have been reading his emails. All the sappy - love poems - "know we are meant to be together" emails that he sends her.

He was upset but said he would have done the same thing if stich reverse. I asked him 3 times if he had made up his mind, and on the 3rd time he said "Yeah kinda".
I said what made up your mind today - He said I don't want to hurt you anymore.

Throughout conversion:

"I'm I worried about my life without you, yes I am"
"You would take me back after what you read I wrote to OW?"
"I would have to discover you again"

I said "We (meaning OW and I) don't deserve to be lied to" He said "You don't deserve to be lied to, but she's lying to me."

So everything is out in the open now. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not.

Another thing - I called him names and cursed him - he just took it. Maybe it made him feel less guilty - like if he took it - it would be his punishment.

I've let go. I put my trust in God. Whether His plan for me is to be with H or He has bigger and better things in store for me.

Fogless -

My H says that he has been thinking that he wasn't in love with me and was thinking about being single way before the A started.

Did you feel this way ? Or is this just more justification for A /fog talk ?

Because if he wanted to be single - why would he be talking marriage with OW so soon ?

Hmmmm. I don't remember calling names and cursing your spouse being in the MB plans anywhere.

If you are getting to that point, time for Plan B.

amy,

I've said this in another of my post, IMO if the M is anywhere near being a "good" M, no man wants to be single again..
He is doing a lot of fog babble... Trying to decide what he thinks he wants compared to what he knows he wants, that being with you...

As far as calling him names, cursing him, well I think your entitled to some anger... he takes it because he knows he deserves it... Lucky for me my W never cursed or called me names, but she has shown anger about the A, and why wouldn't she..

My W has read all the emails between myself and OW. At first I didn't like it, but then realized it was actually helping her!!! I think she was seeing that the things I told her were actually true, things about me and OW trying to end things several times but ended up back together. She reads these emails and then ask me questions as she has them, and I have been answering them as honestly as I can, not really holding anything back... Hey I have even read a few over her shoulder as she read and laughed at some of the things OW and I had talked about, how we could be together, things we would need to do, want to do, etc.

Remember, while walking around with the fog mask on, you will say all sorts of things, will talk yourself into believing anything...

Can't remember, but prior to the A, how was your M? were there any other problems/issues? not to get to personal, but how was the SF in your M? Remember, men see/feel love through sex, not so much emotional....

hope the fogless babble makes sense...

fogless..

believer -

Yes I know - I regret everything I said. I've apologized. Mostly it was "I hate you", "I wish I would never have met you", "I hope you get a disease from OW", "You disgust me", etc. I just could not hold it in - it so draining being nice when you know they are lying to you and don't seem to care anything about your feelings.

fogless -

We are best friends. We have the same interests - same dreams for the future. We were comfortable around each other. Our sex life was good to okay. I rejected sex maybe 10-15% of the time. But during my plan A (last 5 months) - I upped that to GREAT. I initiated about all. He was not wanting in that dept.
We had our fights about housework and money. But otherwise it was a good marriage. We were very affectionate towards each other.

He's a veterianrian. We have been moving around for the past 10 years. This is the first place we've been in for more than 2 years. We bought our first house here.
The OW is a vet tech (nurse). How typical, huh? The doctor falling for his nurse. But she is at a different clinic now. They no longer work together.
He started talking to her about me not wanting kids - which we never really fully discussed. And she talked to him about problems with her BF. And it developed into a raging EA.
They have nothing in common. And he's trying to make her conform into something she's not. And he's trying to change who he is for her.

She's going to Vegas with her BF in a couple weeks. She's basically told him if they were the last people on earth, she still doesn't know if she would have anything to do with him. And yet he told me he sees a future with this women.

If he totally falls flat in his face - when she gets tired of his attention. Will he come back ? I'm not sure. He has so much pride.

I am going to be pleasant when he calls - but keep conversation light.