What would you make of the following MC observations:

- MC brings beliefs/views into our therapy (the struggles of women).

- MC invalidates my feelings by making humorous remarks when I explain how my WW was acting during the EA.

- MC told my WW, in a private session, she (MC) was sorry she (WW) was going through all of this (me acting the way I have been after D-day, post traumatic stress disorder, violating my WW privacy, the usual BS actions).

- MC said that when I act the way a BS acts (playing detective, backing off/giving WW some room, letting WW come to me) it's the immature child in me and that WW should resist.

- MC had me keep track of how I interact with WW and how WW responds to my bids, even after my WW told MC she feels like she is constantly being watched and is walking on eggshells.

- MC called my WW's relationship an affair during one of my one-on-one sessions. Then says instant messaging does not mean it's an affair during one of our group sessions.

- MC said my letter to OMW was an aggressive act.

- MC does not even focus on the aspect of the affair.

I am so confused!!!! I think this is hurting our recovery and I need to know other opinions.

Just_Friends_NOT

MC sounds like a biased person. Not good to have in dealing with R issues.

Setup phone counseling with Jennifer and ask her how to help you redirect the WS.

Sounds like the MC is trying to 'use' your W to justify her own inappropriate MC actions.

Get another MC.

JMHO,
L.

JFN, have you thought about givng the MC the psychiatrist's email addy/phone number and having her confirm the nature of their conversations, perhaps share the copies? This may be a great help to her in your joint therapy.

The only reason the MC thought your wife was engaged in a true affair in the first place was because you presented it to her that way. It is a entirely different story give the emails you looked at. I thought we already went over all this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Remember you don't want to be a BS in any real EA or PA sense and given the information so far you just don't qualify. Keep dealing with the marital issues and be happy your wife has entered MC and ceased the "help me" emails. KB

For MC to work both of you need to feel comfortable with the person. There are sooo many bad MC's out there (I know the one I went to was horrible) and it sounds like you got one. Time to start interviewing for a new one. The one good thing about going to a bad MC is that you now know more things to ask in the interview process.

The Policy of Joint Agreement means you find a MC who meets both of your needs. This doesn't sound like it. Whether your concerns are valid or not is not the issue. Whether your feelings are respected is the issue.

It took me a long, long time to realize that.

Cherished

I noticed you used the term "bids" in your first post. Is this MC from the Gottman school of counselling?

Knewbetter:
Remember you don't want to be a BS in any real EA or PA sense and given the information so far you just don't qualify. Keep dealing with the marital issues and be happy your wife has entered MC and ceased the "help me" emails.

I am still confused why this doesn't qualify as an EA. If you look at the criteria for an Online Affair in "Not Just Friends" it satisfies all but the last one, which is actually meeting each other. Glass uses the terms Walls and Windows to also determine if the friendship has crossed the line into EA. I was literally on the other side of the Wall, while he OM was going through the Window. I think the MC was viewing my BS behavior as the emotional abuse, she has since started saying I am hypervigilant (after I gave her a copy of Not Just Friends). I will watch how the MC acts in the next couple session. I am very greatful W is opening up. Now if she will only do the reading assignments out of Not Just Friends.


Zoomie:
I noticed you used the term "bids" in your first post. Is this MC from the Gottman school of counselling?

Yes, this is from the Relationship Cure. Very good book. So is the Seven Principles book.

Just_Friends_NOT

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Just_Friends_NOT ]</small>

Quote from JFN:

I am still confused why this doesn't qualify as an EA. If you look at the criteria for an Online Affair in "Not Just Friends" it satisfies all but the last one, which is actually meeting each other.

I am confused why you would WANT to see it this way. Is the IC you were seeing the same person as the current MC? If the current MC is aware of your diagnosis she is going to be "hypervigilant" herself as to your wife's safety. It is her professional duty to be so.

Your wife could have emailed any number of college friends but she CHOSE a psychiatrist college friend. I can totally understand you feeling betrayed by her confiding in him about you behind your back but that is an entirely different issue than her having an online EA. Do you see?

I agree that you need to BOTH be comfortable with the MC but in your case your personal issues will always be an concern in your joint counseling. My concern is that maybe if you feel that you can "prove" to her, the MC, and even us that she had a bonefide EA, then much of the focus is off of your issues.

I was initially very impressed by your admission and the research you did about abusers. Your list was one I had not seen yet. The fact that you feel the list fits you to a "T" has my interest. It just appears that you are taking a step backwards by insisting that she had an emotional affair. Patients do develop dependencies on their therapists of course but your wife has agreed to confine herself to the MC.

You can shop for MCs endlessly but once they are aware of your history they will tend to be protective of your wife as they should be. No one should have to live afraid. I know that you want to think that this behavior BEGAN with her emails but that is extremely unlikely. You just weren't aware that your behavior was anything out of the ordinary before then. I guarantee you that your wife KNEW.

Her "bid" for help was ill advised but she HAS ceased and is working with you in MC. I'm sure the Glass book holds little appeal for her but yuo can tell her to look at it this way: you guys dodged a bullet. Learning how to have appropriate boundaries in dealing with the opposite sex is beneficial and neccessary and the Glass book is definitely helpful for this.

You've dodged the bullet but if you approach her with "YES YOU DID, YOU DID HAVE AN EA, IT SAYS SO RIGHT HERE" line of thinking well that's like putting a bullet in her yourself. You want to have a healthy marriage, so maybe you should carefully rethink this idea. I *could* be wrong about the relationship but you really don't want me to be, you know? The real life facts just don't appear to lineup as an true EA even if they do lineup in the Glass book.

Find a different counselor that you are both comfortable with if you feel you need to switch, stick with the site, learn as much as you can about what a healthy marriage looks like. Continue with your IC to make sure that you are the best darn YOU and the best darn husband you can be. I really think you have it in you JFN. Best, KB

Your wife could have emailed any number of college friends but she CHOSE a psychiatrist college friend. I can totally understand you feeling betrayed by her confiding in him about you behind your back but that is an entirely different issue than her having an online EA. Do you see?

The relationship between WW and OM was not therapy.

I agree that you need to BOTH be comfortable with the MC but in your case your personal issues will always be an concern in your joint counseling. My concern is that maybe if you feel that you can "prove" to her, the MC, and even us that she had a bonefide EA, then much of the focus is off of your issues.

I know I have issues I need to deal with and I am willing to work on it. I am not shifting the focus to the EA. If someone doesn't realize their actions were harmful to someone else, what is stopping them from repeating them again.

I am not resisting you, you have a lot of very vaild points. Thank you.

Just_Friends_NOT

JFN, I don't know your story at all. I would say that if your W's e-mails with the OM took her away from the M, that a door was being put up with you and a window opened for him, it was an EA. How long did this go on?

Concerning MC, many MCs suck at M counseling. A good C allows both people to feel safe in counseling. Steve Harley told me recently that many MCs don't know anything about infidelity either. I also agree that if your W was having an EA it is important for you both to know and understand it in order to protect your M in the future. If it was an EA your feelings need to be acknowledged. Then you and your W can look at the issues in your M and hopefully rebuild. JMVHO! CV

JFN, I don't know your story at all. I would say that if your W's e-mails with the OM took her away from the M, that a door was being put up with you and a window opened for him, it was an EA. How long did this go on?

She was e-mailing OM for about 2 years. Then things started to increase very quickly. I would say, after the instant messaging started (lasted about 2 weeks), W really withdrew from me. Then the exchanging of photos, then the phone call. She said to OM in an IM, "Call me on my cell phone, I've dumped the kids at my mom's house and I am alone.". She even said some thing in her e-mail to OM that she was "HOT and SWEATY" (just like that) from painting a room in our house. She also signed an e-mail to OM

"First Name "Horney"part of last name".

(Our last name starts with Horn....) Hope everyone gets what I was trying to explain.

Just_Friends_NOT

From my point of view that sure sounds like an EA that could have escalated to a more intense EA, or more than that. At the very least I think your red flag feelings shouldn't be dismissed. CV

I found this in the "Wife has internet relationship with OM" thread reply from Foreverhers.

You MUST also be in contact with the OM's wife and you must find out "her side of the story." It is exceedingly possible that she does not know what has been going on and that your wife is making statements of "she has never loved me, been miserable since we got married, our marriage was a mistake." Those ARE hallmark statements of an affair and they do NOT get that far with reciprocal statements and support from the OM.

WW told me some of these things right after I approached her I knew about her "friendship". Especially this one, "We've had a sh***y" marriage for ten years." We just had our 10 year on 9-3-04. Happy Anniversary, honey! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Just_Friends_Not

<small>[ October 04, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Just_Friends_NOT ]</small>

^BUMP^

JFN:

I'm not going 2 comment any more about whether this is an EA or not. I think you know what I think.

Your MC sounds like a problem rather than an assistant 2 finding a solution, though.

Most people find that it takes trying 2 or 3 different counselors 2 find one that works for both of you.

I'd move on 2 another MC.

Even better, call one of the Harleys or Penny Tupy.

--ol' 2long