Well, I guess its game over. H had travel scheduled for 3 solid weeks. We had the civilized separation planned - he would return, spend a few days at home, we would tell the kids about him leaving, he would stay a few more days to cushion their reaction, then leave.

We work for the same company in different buildings. Imagine my surprise when I enter his building for a meeting, and there he is, back at work when he was suppose to be in NY for the week and weekend, before he left for Europe. What are you doing here? I decided not to stay in NY for the weekend. Then you'll be home tonite? No - I'm staying at a hotel.

Well, guess what, he came home because OW told her H she wanted to leave, she left home, got a hotel and called H to come be with her in her hours of need. H changed his flights, flew home without telling me, and is spending his 3 nights before Europe with her in the hotel. And he says he does not think he will be able to come home when he returns in a week, he has to stay with her because she needs him more.

Do I think she forced the issue because he spent a happy previous weekend with me and the kids? Yes. Does it matter? No. What matters is that for 2 months, we have been carefully planning this separation to do the best thing for our kids, tell them the right way with the right timing, or at least the best timing to minimize their shock and pain. That plan is out the door, since Ow needed H, and he is now committed to finding her a place to live, and moving in with her as soon as he returns.

At first I was just blown away by what he had done. He wasn't even going to tell us that he was in town, but showed up for work? He could have worked from his hotel room on his laptop. Maybe he wanted me to run into him, although this meeting was a fluke, I am hardly ever over in his building. What the H... - doesn't matter, he has played his last card and I am finished. I missed my very important meeting, had to go to the vice president and tell him why - that my H and I are splitting and things came to a head this morning. Thank God he was understanding and supportive.

I Was planning to go out with friends tonite cause I thought he was out of town. I still did, good thing, cause tonite is the first night in 14 years, that I have to face the fact that he is spending the night with Ow, and will not be home ever again. Maybe I am still in shock, but I don't feel as bad as I thought I would feel.
He hasn't called the kids in 3 nights, seems like he is distancing himself from us very quickly. Guess thats what happens when you totally defect to the other side.

Anyway, time to go to bed, to tuck my kids in, and realize this is truly over. He is with OW now, he has left us. I thought I would be in so much pain, but its like thinking about my teenage son making out with a girlfriend - I feel so removed - it just seems like whatever, thats life, I am not reacting with the intense pain like I did when he was missing from home and we didn't know where he was, who he was with, or when he was coming home. He's just there, with her, and I know it, but don't feel anything, or at least anything that painful.

I told him I was going to tell the kids myself while he was gone, instead of the plan we had to tell them together as was recommended by our counselor and all the books. I told him I don;t want him coming back home at all, he can stay with OW. Again, not what we had decided to do to make it easier on the kids. I don't mean to punish them because of my H's behavior and my reaction, but enough is enough. He flew home to be with OW, to stay with her in her time of need, to be with her in a hotel and not even tell his family he was in town. This is enough for me. I have given up, and maybe thats what he wanted me to do.

<small>[ October 02, 2004, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Everhopeful ]</small>

Everhopeful....

My heart goes out to you and your children.

I just went to family court with a friend today for her custody hearing.

I was very saddened by the dividing of families; children, and possessions. Torn and broken lives.

I know you will survive. You have the very best interests of your children at heart. They will need you soooo much now, and you will be comforted by them as much as they will be comforted by you.

I have no advice to give, only hugs for you and your children. You are in my thoughts, and my prayers.

K72172

Are you planning to go into Plan B? I think that is what I would do. Your husband needs a dose of letting OW meet all of his needs.

Yes, plan B it is. When I went to his office later in the day to tell him I would tell the kids myself while he is gone, and that I do not want him back in the house - he just said "Interesting - but what about a little nookie first?" Unbelievable.

I don't want to talk to him or see him at all, other than begin mediation about parenting and financial issues. I want him to be the one to file for divorce, but want to make sure me and the kids are protected in all ways. Will see an attorney before he returns.

Of course I would like to see he and OW immediately burn out as soon as possible, but I think they have gone to far, hurt too many people to turn back even if they are having second thoughts. Of course I would like to think that maybe the joy of their "finally getting to be together" might be tainted a bit by the reality of the hurt and betrayal they leave in their wake. But maybe not. Maybe they are besides themselves with happiness that they are finally free to start their new journey through life together. Hard to think that my H can just turn off any remaining feelings he had for me, much less accept that he will only see his kids again on a part time basis. At least for 6 months. Thats how long I want to wait before they start sleeping over at daddy's with OW there. I hope thats reasonable and agreeable under these circumstances.

Now my main focus is what is best for the kids, whether to tell them myself, or to wait, and have my H and I tell them together. And what do you say about the fact that daddy is living with his lover? They are 10 & 14, old enough to understand. I do not want them spending the night with my H with her there. But they need to know why they can't spend the night, they may run into them somewhere, they may hear from friends. How do you tell them, and still not place blame, which is one of the major things all the counselors, books etc tell you not to do?

Think I will post this over in the divorcing forum, but any ideas here are appreciated.

Believer is right! I knew someone would come thru with some good advice.

Plan B. Take care of you, and your kids.

K

What a jerk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />


When he comes out of the fog, he is going to be one sorry SOB with all the repentence he's got in store for him. Something is going to bring him to his knees, let it be your Plan B.

everhopeful..

how are you

I think you should go dark....not plan B yet...I think giving him a plan B letter with words of reconciling will be used against you...

he'll say...

"see she doesn't get it's over yet..."

See I don't think this over yet...the reality is just starting to loom down on him..

kind of like that verse from the Grateful Dead song
Casey Jones....


Got two good eyes but you still don't see.
Come round the bend, you know it's the end,
The fireman screams and the engine just gleams...

this is really just beginning....

go dark...
If you can buy some time in telling the kids...
cause i am not sure the divorce word is needed yet;...but they deserve the truth ....

BUT
go dark...

and know that regardless who your husband lays next to...that an insidious little tickle has formed deep inside of him...that during the daylight hours he pushes away and tunes out...but it is there...and at night...when the distractions can't hold the voices at bay...
he is listening ....trying hard not to...

but he hears the beginings of what is of his creation....

that in those moments right before we all drift off...and those moments right before we wake up...when our souls yearn to suspend ourselves in the safety that all is well in our lives...and that we can breathe deep and know we are doing the best we can for those we love....
his soul is not at peace,,,,

and that will continue to creep and grow inside of him....
and what he believes is going to bring fullfillment to his life he will begin to know that it is exactly what is going to empty him...

sleep well my friend...for those are not your demons...but his to wrestle....

and the battle is just begining to be waged...

ARK

Ark - what a post....gave me chills. Thank you very much for this reply and your very wise, eloquent words of wisdom.

I still think my H is so deluded, or maybe so shallow, that he truly may never see the reality of this situation. He will always fall back on his bottom line - that I am too "old" for him, that he wants a younger woman his own age, and regardless of how miserable he may end up with or without OW, he will still fall back on this excuse.

Today he called on my cell phone to say hi to the kids - had to lie that he was in NY, when actually he is here back home, just around the corner with OW. Very civil and friendly but
#1 I knew he was with her when he called #2 when I asked him what he was doing, he said "just driving around the neighborhood" which meant, in essence, we are looking for a place to live together, since she is now kicked out from her H, and my H is doing the "right" thing by taking care of her. Nevermind that he is abandoning his wife of 14 years and kids, and that we are right around the corner.

I think that I am actually letting him off the hook by saying that I will tell the kids myself before he returns, even thought it sure looks like he is not returning to us, never coming home again. (!) Without using them as a vehicle to punish him, I do think he has to take responsibility for this decision, afterall I am not the one that wants to bust up this happy family. Let him explain. I will do whatever it takes to protect my kids, but dad really needs to step up to the plate and say whatever it is he needs to say, and to look at their faces when he says it.

I believe this is exactly the right time for Plan B. When a spouse moves in with the OP is one of the pivotal events used to do timely Plan B. I actually love when they move in to together....nothing kills an affair like the reality of living together. Do NOT allow him to see and talk to you during this time, or the OW will not have to meet all of his needs....he'll still have some met by you. I urge you to get a good mediator and write a Plan B letter. It should not be a rambling letter of reconciliation or anything else.

Unless you've written a letter, or stated explicitly the things below you aren't really in Plan B. Plan B requires that certain things be said up front. Otherwise, going dark is just more like withdrawal. I'm sure you said some or all of these things in other convos, but a letter is optimal because it sets it all out in a way that is clear and concise and can't be denied or argued later. It can be looked at and reread as time goes on.

You need to decide if you are in save the marriage mode, or take care of you mode..... they're not mutually exclusive but you will behave differently depending on which way you're thinking.

I am very much hardline by the book Willard Harley. He's brilliant and his stuff works. Not all the time, nothing does, but more often and with better results than anyone else's methodology that I've seen to date. And because that's my training and I mentor for symc, that's what I recommend.


Things that need to be in a PBL

• I love you.
• I married you for life. I want to stay married to you
• I am willing to do what it takes to be the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in the marriage.
• The affair/neglect/abuse is so painful for me that it will destroy the love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.
• As soon as the affair/neglect/abuse is over I would love to talk with you about our future.
• Until that time please respect my wish for no contact whatsoever
• In an emergency you can reach me through______.
• Arrangements for seeing children and handling finances are_____.

My problem here is that we have so much to figure out - parenting, finances, distribution of property (all of which are very complicated) that I cannot sever contact with my H at this point. We agreed we would talk out as many issues as possible before we even see a mediator, to save time and $. Once we move forward with whatever we are going to do, decisions are made, then I can sever the contact. Can you still do Plan B when you are moving forward with a divorce?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you still do Plan B when you are moving forward with a divorce? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you can EH and I recommend it. When I say "mediator" I don't mean the court appointed one you use to help with the financial settlement....I mean a personal mediator that shuttles correspondence about the basic things you mentioned so that you can remain dark. Most of what you describe, including stuff with the kids, can be accomplished through email or with a mediator, instead of talking. Being available to talk facilitates the divorce and gives him contact with you....what do you gain by that? If you are ready for divorce...that's a different story...but if you aren't....the delay will cause conflict in the affair.

ever..

I just want to clarify my thoughts on you going plan B...which I think you definitely should....

which is way way different from divorce...
divorce takes time...and though there is urgency in you getting your ducks lined up on your side...

documenting absence of his communication in the children's lives...
financial security etc...

I don't think you should be PLANNING the divorce...
or even using the divorce term..

like I said this is just begining...and is he going out of town again away from the OP for an extended period...cause this also will play in to when reality hits vs keeping his fantasy going...

holidays are on your side...especially if you are in plan B...and WS and OP end up eatind dried out turkey alone.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

you should plan on doing none of the work on a divorce he wants...

sooo.
I agree with the plan b letter...my only contention with the plan b letter is that I think it has little value if given the day the WS leaves...that it just looks like a desperate plan of denial...that the Ws will share with OP...

that's why you waiting just a bit...and some of that depends on if he is home or traveling...because I think your plan b letter will be more effective if it comes with some space between the big hotel move... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
and him having some time to be alone and isolated with only her.....

so my question for you is where is he
and are you currently in contact....

ARK

OT so I deleted it here.

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

EH,
If you remain in contact with him, it sounds like he'll keep wanting sex with you, so just to help you make up your mind:

From the book WHEN THE ONE YOU LOVE WANTS TO LEAVE by Donald R. Harvey, very similar to MB, only with Biblical principles for why, no SF during separation because more likely than not it is for manipulation, not Godly principle.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it interferes with any possible reconciliation. Continued sexual activity serves to maintain fuzziness in the relationship, as opposed to clarity....Second continuing a sexual relationship with your husband helps maintain his comfort zone, thus distorting the reality of what he has done...He isn't fully experiencing the consequences of his actions and isn't in a position to resolve whether he wants to remain in the marriage or leave it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, I think this goes for all aspects of your H. By remaining in contact with you, being able to ask you for sex and whatever, he isn't experiencing the consequences of his actions.

EH,
If you remain in contact with him, it sounds like he'll keep wanting sex with you, so just to help you make up your mind:

From the book WHEN THE ONE YOU LOVE WANTS TO LEAVE by Donald R. Harvey, very similar to MB, only with Biblical principles for why, no SF during separation because more likely than not it is for manipulation, not Godly principle.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it interferes with any possible reconciliation. Continued sexual activity serves to maintain fuzziness in the relationship, as opposed to clarity....Second continuing a sexual relationship with your husband helps maintain his comfort zone, thus distorting the reality of what he has done...He isn't fully experiencing the consequences of his actions and isn't in a position to resolve whether he wants to remain in the marriage or leave it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, I think this goes for all aspects of your H. By remaining in contact with you, being able to ask you for sex and whatever, he isn't experiencing the consequences of his actions.

Hi Trix,

I don't want to thread-jack, but I also have some experience with the age-difference thing. My H was barely 26 when we met and I was 33.

If you want to chat, you can post to me over at Emotional Needs. I'd be happy to talk about it.

Martes