I have a need to hear the whole complete truth about my spouces infedelity. I am not sure why, other than I know she is not telling me everything? For instantance, she says all she did was kiss, but I know this is not true. She stead fastly denies having sex, and I think she is telling the truth about not having intercourse. I just want her to tell me the truth. Is something wrong with me that I cannot lay this aside? I do not want to keep bothering her with this and it is very humiliating for me to continue asking. I will not break up our sweet little family, but I also do not want to make her miserable over this. How do you lay something like this aside and move on when you know you have not been told all the truth?

Cowboy, perhaps this will help your wife (and you) to understand why disclosure matters so much in recovery:

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com023.html
An excerpt:

"To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to 'understand' the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it."

This link will also give you some good advice about dealing with your wife lovingly as you both move toward complete disclosure.

I really wish I had read this sooner after I learned of my husband's affair, when he was more receptive to talking about our relationship and opening up to me. He tried to placate me with "I don't remember" and to put me off with "I don't want to talk about that" and I let him... and four years later I still feel vulnerable, because not knowing how this came to happen and what went on, how can I ever really be sure it won't happen again? Maybe your wife will understand that.

Hi CB and Char,

Please let me share this with you: I, too, had a PA at work and disclosed it to my H when I discovered his EA/PA recently. I regret that I don't remember much other than the shame and dirtiness I felt. I hate even calling it an A, because I felt (and still feel) very used by the OP. But I was conciously involved and stayed in the workplace, so take my own responsibility for letting it happen.

I don't rmember much because I was 'working the system' in a male-dominated workplace. That alone should've given me cause to pause, but I thought I could handle it. I put myself in those situations, despite knowing the consequences, And am still ashamed. Male dominated areas are all the same- the woman is a whore or a b****, but never really qualified for the job. I thought I could fit in by hanging out with them, drinking with them, etc. I did not acknowledge my inherent stupidness, but felt up to it and justified it by consoling myself that the promotions and money were worth the shame I bore.

Currently, I have my own WHs A and hurt and greif and wanting to know and put all those peices together. Like Cheryanne, At the start, he was more willing to talk, and now not. He's now reluctent to talk bc I ask more. I fear we may never get to 'open and honest' ever again. He's in 'put it behind us' mode. It's ironic, bc he always gets so much more relaxed each time he reveals more to me immediately afterwards. Maybe it's the anxiety of the revelation hours or days afterwards that makes him want to shut down, I don't know.

He has his demons. It's so hard for him to see the long term benefits, bc he's avoiding immediate pain. He has to choose, or it's worthless, y'know?

Keep reading these posts and lots of books to get past the agony. there are so many good outcomes.....

see Bob Pure's recent post...

Thanks for all your responces. It has angered my wife that I want details. Perhaps I have punished her when she was honest. I am glad ya'll enlightened me about this aspect. Previously she has responded to my questions in anger saying "I did not feel married at the time and so it is none of your business." This hurt so and is so unfair. I would reply in anger "Well, you forgot to tell me that we were not married." Is it unreasonable for me to want to know who these men are? She claimed to have told me every thing, yet awhile back I overheard her (yes, I was snooping) tell a girlfriend "all I ever did was kiss them, except for that one guy, and we ain't going there."
I find it so humiliating for her to tell others things she will not admit to me.
She gets angry and says that all those years before I ignored her and only after I actually saw her kissing another did I take an intrest. There is alot of truth to what she says. I ingored alot of things, but when I saw with my own eyes, it became real. And then I realized there was alot more I did not know.
I know she is sorry. I know that she does love me. But I also feel if she does not answer me honestly, I will never regain my trust of her. Sometimes she even uses the excuse that she cannot talk because she will not violate a confidence to a friend. Boy, that one really does hurt. A friend is more important that me! Besides, she is the one with the big mouth. I am the most trustworthy person she has ever known.
I also wonder, after all these lies and deception, if I will recognise the truth when I hear it, or will I continue on, making her miserable because I "know there is yet more"?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by restarting:
<strong>

I don't rmember much because I was 'working the system' in a male-dominated workplace. That alone should've given me cause to pause, but I thought I could handle it. I put myself in those situations, despite knowing the consequences, And am still ashamed. Male dominated areas are all the same- the woman is a whore or a b****, but never really qualified for the job. I thought I could fit in by hanging out with them, drinking with them, etc. I did not acknowledge my inherent stupidness, but felt up to it and justified it by consoling myself that the promotions and money were worth the shame I bore.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How exactly were you "working the system?" And why were you doing that?

I would have to disagree emphatically that men in the workplace view women as unqualified "whores and b*tches." Sure, there are some unqualified whores and b*thces in the business who aren't smart enough to cut it with their brains and hard work, but that is not the fault of "men." There will always be scuzzy women who try to sleep their way up instead of working their way up. No one can make anyone be a whore against her will.

As a female who has made it up the ladder in 2 male dominated Fortune 500 companies, I find it very offensive that you would imply that women are too stupid to cut it in the workplace without acting like whores. And it is very bigoted of you to slime men in that way.

I have worked with some wonderful men over the years and would never characterize them as you have. I have found that if you treat men with respect, they will treat you with respect.

Cowboy, Howdy (sorry couldn't help myself) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Tell her you simple do not believe her, don't let her interupt, let her hear you out, you do not believe her, and you need to hear the truth, you need to be prepared to hear the truth if you ask that from her though, tell her then, she does not need to disclose it right then, but you are waiting to hear it all, when she is ready.

Don't cont. to call her a liar, just tell her, I do not believe this is all there is, I will wait for the truth.

My H chose not to hear details, he asked a few major Q's and left it at that. It has helped with the trigger factor. Just to let you know.

She needs to cowboy up, and be honest with you, out of respect for you, be patient with her, your persistance will just make her feel like a schmuck, and get you no where.

KY

cowboy, I am sorry to hijack your thread with my last post, my blood pressure went off the charts when I read that post.

Anyway, I do agree with Charynne and am glad she made that post. I would show her article to your spouse and try to make her understand that you just have to know. It is best to just get it all out at once. Because it IS going to come out.

You will drag it out of her piece by piece until you can rest. And every little piece that comes out will put you both back to Day 1 in recovery. It is like dying a death of a thousand cuts. It is the hardest path for both of you!

She needs to suck it up and just get it all out now so you can both move on and start recovery. But you won't start recovery until you know these facts and until there are no more secrets between she and the OM. You can't hope to build trust if the OM knows about your marriage than you do.

Cowboy, I have a few thoughts on this subject. I'm not sure how long it has been since your d-day, or how involved your W was with the OM. This all might have an impact on the process of truthtelling.

Our d-day began 1/8/04. I say began because it started with H saying, "I have feelings for OW, but have never revealed them", to "We have been telling each other ILY for months, but absolutely nothing physical occurred", to "We hugged once in the parking lot" to "I tried to "do it" once, but wasn't able to" to my finding out they were screwing through my snooping and finding love letters she gave him. It took 6 grueling weeks to get to the full truth. Basically I think my H was scared SH**LESS to have me know the truth. What he didn't understand is that it was crueler giving it to me piece by piece.

During those weeks that I would press for the truth it was like looking at an animal frozen in fear when headlights glare at them in the dark. He would try to deflect every difficult question. There were times when he told me something hard to deal with that I would lose it. In the beginning he would feel so bad about himself he told me it would set him back and he'd want to call the OW to be comforted. He didn't! So I would watch for that.

I am one of those BSs that need to know EVERYTHING! I guess what I've learned is that I needed to take a break from knowing the details of some of the really hard sexual stuff until we were stronger. However, I did need to know if they had sex right away. I had to convince H that if he wanted to recover with me he could not shield me from the truth. I guess I didn't let him off the hook.

I don't know if this helps you or anyone else. My belief is that we BSs have the right to know whatever we need to know to heal. It took me a while to get my H to understand this. The Dear Peggy letter is very good. CV

KY, don't be sorry about the Howdy. That is how I talk! I first caught my wife kissing another man 2 yrs. ago after her 20th reunion. A few days later, while still reeling, I asked if she had ever kissed anyone else. She said a man had kissed her on a cruise I had sent her , her mother and her sister on a few yrs. before, and that she had also kissed a younger man on a girls fishing trip two yrs. before this incident. I was shocked and began to ask questions and it became very apparent she was not telling "the whole truth." Since then she has admitted to kissing 7 other males in total. I say "males" because they were not all legally adults. One was a close family friend 8 yrs. younger than her, and one was a 17 yr. old friend of our oldest son at a graduation beer bust for our son's graduation. In all cases my wife has been drunk.
Her behavoir has been so destructive to us all (we have 6 children) and childish and extremely humiliating for me. Over the last two yrs. she had slowly gotten worse drinking and acting like a teenager, wanting to party all the time and setting horribly examples for the children. recently, I finally got the courage up to demand either she stop and get counseling, or we separate. I was so afraid before that ultimatums would end our family, but finally I realized she was going to drag us all over the edge with her if I did not stand up and be a man.
She finally realized I was serious and stopped. We have been to several counseling sessions now and are making great progress. She is accepting responsibility for her actions (instead of blaming me and God for them) and she has finally begun to express real remorse for her actions. I know this is terribly difficult for her, because she has betrayed our children as well as humiliate them and set horrible examples for them in her misery. I know I do need to be patient and supportive and encouraging, but this has been a 2 yr process of dragging things out, and most of what I have found out has been because I have snooped and confronted her with what I have found out.
I accept full responsibility for not being a very good husband in our early marriage, and also for becoming infatuated with a young woman 10 yrs. ago and breaking her heart (I never came close to even having any sort of relationship though, but I did lie to her about having feelings for yrs.)Consequently, she did not believe that I had been faithful, but I had and I am proud of that fact.
So, we are making progress and I am glad for it because I want her to be happy and our children need a happy mother, as I need a happy wife. But, now I need to know the whole truth, so that I can make decisions about my future based on the truth. I know she is afraid to admit the terrible truth about what she has done. Afraid for our family and afraid for herself. But, I know the truth will set you free and we need it. I do not know what the truth will bring, but I do know what the lies will bring, and I have had enough of that. I want freedom for us all.