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A few days ago someone posted a thread in which he/she told a story about a man who had given his younger brother shelter in his home. The younger brother and his SIL had a short A. The younger brother left and got married. The younger brother told his W about his fling with his brother's W. Twenty years later, the only person who is unaware of the affair is the older brother.

The question was posed on whether an outsider who knew about the situation should tell the older brother about his W and brother's affair. What was surprising is the response from some pretty hardcore MBers who normally say to others that they have no right in withholding the truth about the affair to the BS, ended up telling the poster that he/she should not tell. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

My POV is that if you KNOW about your friend or relative's A, you still maintain a relationship with both BS and WS, and you chose not to tell the BS about the affair, then you are a co-conspirator and you are no better than the person who is having/had the affair.

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I disagree. I think that people who know of or suspect an affair are in a very awkward situation. A friend of my husband's from work kept on saying to him that Kathy is so much like Sophia. She was trying to warn him, I think, that he was getting too close to Sophia.

The fact is that you could call a naive BS, like me, an accessory to an affair. I KNEW that his relationship with this woman was inappropriate. I didn't like that he was telling me that he was having lunch with her and telling me she was saying she felt "passion" for him. I was upset. I did contact Sophia. I did go to therapy. I didn't call Sophia's husband because he said I would betray his trust in him because he had confided in me.

Does that make me an accessory to his affair? He sure thought so. After the affair came out, he said, "You knew something was going on, and you didn't do anything."

I wasn't an accessory. I wasn't resposible one iota for his affair, and neither was anyone else, including Sophia. He made his own choices.

What's sad, in my situation, is that I thought I was doing what was best for our marriage by hiding the abuse, including a broken arm. I thought I was doing what was best for our marriage by not calling Sophia's husband as my husband requested. I was a fool, but I still was not responsible -- and neither is anyone other than the philanderers themselves for their own behavior.

Cherished

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

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TMCM, I did not tell her not to tell. And I agree with everything you say.

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TMCM - I told her not to tell. It was many years ago, and I don't see the point of telling now.

I had a girlfriend that I found out was having an affair, and using me as an excuse to her husband about where she was. As soon as I found out, I let her know that I would no longer be her friend, and would let her husband know what was going on. She violated my friendship and trust, and used me.

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I did not respond to that thread because I had intuition that some parts of the story were being omitted.... It just seemed completely odd to me that the entire rest of the family "knew" and the BS did not know...

I had a female patient (recently deceased) who had an affair for 20 years...

and I was aware, but she "apparently" was not, that her H was having an affair(s) for this time as well...

yet, she really disliked her H ... and never faced the reality of the dirt in her marriage because in order to do so, she'd have to give up her own dirt....

sometimes the dynamics of this sort of dysfunction includes a deliberate not-looking because there is something the BS is hiding as well..

anywho... the entire story struck me as "a part of the story"..... some families have a culture of secrecy that is accepted by everyone.... like Mafia-family culture for instance.

Pep

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

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When I first came to the board and posted about how many people knew about my father's A and said nothing someone said that we'd been surrounded by moral cowards. I could not agree more.

The way I see it is this. If the knowledge of an A comes to me and I have the slightest chance to inform the BS - I'm going to do it. My primary reason is the health and well being of that person. People can die because of sexual carelessness of the WS. To me that’s a heavy weight to carry. The BS has a right to the knowledge that would allow them to protect their health - let alone their family.

I know telling doesn't always turn out in the best possible way - but A's and the crap that surrounds them rarely do either. IMO this goes part in parcel with an A.

Cherished said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wasn't an accessory. I wasn't responsible one iota for his affair, and neither was anyone else, including Sophia. He made his own choices. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry but this rings a little to close to the OP spiel about not being responsible for their MP's marriage. "He made his own choices".

IMO all of this "I'm not responsible" and “don’t look at me!” bs is what has led us to this point - all of us here trying to fix marriages or understand how not to let marriages get to the point of A. At some point you have to speak up and at least try to do something.

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In retrospect, I wish I had called Sophia's husband, but I believed my husband that he wasn't having an affair and I followed my therapist's advice not to call Sophia or her husband.

People can get caught up in trying to control a spouse who is having an affair. The only thing that a spouse can do is leave.

I am not responsible for my husband's affair. I could hold some culpability for his choosing to divorce me, but not to have an affair. I wasn't meeting his emotional needs -- he was saying "Leave me alone", and I did take action, going to therapy, trying to support him in his outside activities, ... and it got me nowhere.

Tom made his own decisions.

Cherished

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Cherished, I don't think anyone here is blaming the BS for the affair, but rather for not telling the other BS. That is the issue.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> Cherished, I don't think anyone here is blaming the BS for the affair, but rather for not telling the other BS. That is the issue. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh absolutely not! I didn't mean to imply that at all. I'm talking more about situations where we know a friend is cheating on their spouse - but no one says anything because of the "Its not my business" or "That's between them" mindset.

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I guess that I was privy to knowledge, from my H, that Sophia was attempting to seduce my H. I had never met her husband, but did I have an obligation to tell him? I felt as though my obligation was to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement (which he invoked) with my H.

I think a friend could be in the same spot. If the friend is having an affair, then how can they betray that friendship by informing the spouse?

It's not a "not my business" mindset, I think, so much as it is a "You can confide in me, and I won't betray those confidences" mindset.

Friends and family are put in very difficult situations by affairs. Something to think about -- I wouldn't automatically condemn a friend who knows as a co-conspirator.

Cherished

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cherished:
<strong>

I think a friend could be in the same spot. If the friend is having an affair, then how can they betray that friendship by informing the spouse?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Betraying one's principles has nothing to do with "friendship." One does not abandon all principles to protect wrongdoing under the guise of "friendship." Friends don't help friends destroy others, that is NOT a part of a healthy friendship.

You can't use a friendship to justify sitting by and saying nothing while someone is destroyed behind their back, it won't work. To do so is to become an accessory to the crime, Cherished. The one who helps hide it is as guilty as the one who committed it.

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For me the people in my ex fiance's family who kept the truth from me about him being married hurt us both by not telling. I will never fully forgive them for it. I know they meant well but there honesty would have saved so much heartache for me, for him and for his ex wife. They thought they were protecting him, but in reality they were enabling him to avoid the growth he needed to live a happy life.

I care enough about my friends (and all people) that I would tell their spouse even at the possible loss of their friendship. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't because I can't hurt people that way.

However I didn't always feel this way. It has taken a certain amount of experience and wisdom to get to this place where I know the devastation of lies. Not all people have gotten to this place. And I think it helps if they have been on the receiving end of a lie to understand.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
Betraying one's principles has nothing to do with "friendship." One does not abandon all principles to protect wrongdoing under the guise of "friendship." Friends don't help friends destroy others, that is NOT a part of a healthy friendship.

You can't use a friendship to justify sitting by and saying nothing while someone is destroyed behind their back, it won't work. To do so is to become an accessory to the crime, Cherished. The one who helps hide it is as guilty as the one who committed it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen!

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Friendship is not showing loyalty to someone who doesn’t know the meaning of the word.

As far as not betraying confidences goes – how far? If your friend tells you they’re molesting their child, do you keep that confidence? Or that they’re burglarizing homes in the neighborhood…you keep quiet about that too? I’m sorry but IMO that’s a cop out and it is absolutely a “not my business” mindset.

My thing is this. I keep your secret when it doesn’t lead to harm to other people. I keep it as long as keeping it doesn’t clash with my own beliefs and moral stance.

People are faced with difficult situations every single day of their lives. What I’ve realized is that there are some people who will always take the easiest route – the path of least resistance – when it spares them some level of discomfort…EVEN if others have to suffer for it. Sometimes espeically if others have to suffer for it. The best example of this is EMAs. You get a person who’s unhappy with their married life – so the easiest route to deal with the “difficult situtaiton” is an EMA. And ditto with the friend who knows about it. You know, its too difficult to do the right thing, so the easiest path is to do nothing but call it being a friend and keeping a confidence. And then we sit and wonder why so many lives are destroyed by EMAs.

The people I call friend would not keep quiet and watch from the sidelines while my life unravels. My friends would be right there with me on the field, taking hits and whatever else it takes to help me deal with the problems coming my way. That’s what a real friend does.


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