We have ordered three books from Dr. Harley; His Needs Her Needs, Surviving an Affair, and Love Busters. We read Love Busters together and everything seemed to be going in the right direction. We read the first couple of chapters in His Needs Her Needs and when the last paragraph read to get started now she went the other way. Things have gone downhill since. I have read all three books. I first need to give you a little of our history. I am new so I am not sure what all the abbr. are so forgive me for not using them.
I had a high profile profession, which took me on the road 34 weeks a year. My wife and I used to do everything together and the first year that we moved up the ladder to one of the top levels we still did it together although we have three children. I used the telephone to talk to her while she would watch us on TV. We shared most everything of the week that way. I don't know what happened but we got separated emotionally somehow. She started to withhold sex and I missed all the signs. After reading I can't believe how I missed all those signs that were so obvious. My number one emotional need is admiration, which got filled harmlessly at one point by another woman. I left the woman in the city I met her and never thought about it again until she showed up at the next event and then the next, etc. I can't believe I was so stupid and uncaring. It didn't last long and my wife discovered it by a phone call from someone. I lied, and that added insult to injury. She did some snooping and I admitted it. That was around Feb 03 and we decided to reconcile right then. My wife sat me down recently and told me how unhappy she was and how she thought she could live with it but couldn't. After reading Love Busters I realize that I have engaged in most all of them on a continuous basis over the past year and half since its discovery. Not that the affair caused the love busters just that that is the way I since she knew me. I can't understand how I could have been like that and I feel that I have squandered a chance at real reconciliation. Since the time we talked recently I have followed the policy of radical honesty. The other woman contacted me a few times and I usually put her to voice mail. I have not spoken to her since march of 04 and told her I had nothing to say. She called me in July, which I did not notice. I hit the recall button and hung up once it connected. I knew it was her area code and I have no idea why I called it back. Just plain stupid. I admitted itemized the contacts and phone tags out to my wife when she asked. This was previous to our reading Love Busters. Since the first chapter of couple of Chapters in His Needs Her Needs she has stopped reading. She has read 49 pages in Surviving an Affair but that is it. She has gone in the other direction and asked for a divorce at one point. She says she does not have it in her to reconcile and that if she tried she would be doing it for everyone else (children,myself) and not her. Says she has nothing left, no love, no willingness to reconcile, her heart is lead she said. She no longer says I love you and seldom receives a hug. She says that she hears what I am saying but it floats around because she has been conditioned that she does not know what is going on in my head. That I am not going to continue to avoid love busters and filling her emotional needs and go back to engaging in all the ways of my past. I have quit my profession, and am taking up a new one. I have not engaged in a love buster in almost three months. I have been very concerned with her emotional needs and am genuine. She says she does not think about how to get our marriage back on track but how to get out from under it. Those words stick in my head and I feel like I may have lost her. In all my reading I did not find anything about the betrayed spouse withdrawing and becoming emotional divorced. Is there a way back from this? I keep one of Dr. Haley's quotes fresh in my head, "...let intelligence override the foolishness of your taker...". I reach for any kind of anything from her. I am depressed and beginning to think that I did what I did so I must pay the price and lose my family and it is what it is. I love my wife more than anything and I let my taker hurt her, and as I sit now I can't believe that I have done that. Not just the affair, but not meeting her needs when I have never thought otherwise in my head. I have always told others what a wonderful person she is and how beautiful she is and why I never communicated those to her I have no idea and now that I am voicing to her everything that I think I feel like it is to late. She said she had no desire to go to counseling and that divorce was enevitable and she didn't want to lose time to get on her with life. Says she feels she does not know whom she is, that she feel like a cave woman who has been dragged by the hair and has gotten up and kicked the cave man out of the cave. I respectfully persuaded her into going to counseling. A few days ago she said she was going to make the transition easier and that I had delusions of grandeur on reconciliation. That she wasn't thinking about how to get back on track that her train was in another country. I hear those words each day in my head along with many others. On the flip side whenever we discuss issues around divorce she always says "if" it goes that way. I am so confused, depressed, and have had several anxiety attacks. I get rushes down my arms, back, and legs like electricity. I counted 74 over a two-hour period while in bed one early morning. It goes on but you have the main points. What do I do? Is there any information on the betrayed spouse's state of mind and willingness? I am affraid of the counseling and getting a bad counselor. I do not want to be divorced and want to love my wife for the rest of her life and make her happy. Am I too late?

First let me say welcome to MB! You will find help here. I am not going to be it though. I will tell you from a BS (betrayed spouses) point of view that I have also felt this lately. I thought this is what I wanted (reconciliation) but there are times when I really don't and don't know why I said I did. I don't know if it is too late for you and your W. I would suggest calling Steve Harley and asking him for some help honestly. Mostly because it ususally doesn't fall this way that I have read anywhere. You might get help from others that have had similiar problems if you keep this post to the top. I am glad that you are willing to admit to your faults and that you care enough for your family to want to make it right.

Those electric pulses that you are feeling...it is the same for the BS when they find out about the A (affair). Believe it or not every thing that you are feeling right now is exactly what your wife felt when she found out and is probably still feeling at times. This is how I felt, and everytime something comes about that reminds me of the A it happens all over again. This might give you a small idea of why she can't work on the marriage yet. Maybe she isn't ready? Maybe she is still hurting so badly inside. I am not sure. It is sad all the way around though. I wish the best for you and your family. Keep posting someone will post to you that can help you. There are wonderful people here on this site.

HINY

If you're afraid of getting a bad counselor....please let me recommend the Harleys. Steve or Jennifer Chalmers are both good. Penny Tupy at www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com was trained by the Harleys and is also good.

The dynamic you are describing is something I see VERY often....by the time the WS wakes up....the BS just feels "done". Sometimes it turns around...sometimes not. The key, is for you to show consistency over time....it's too early too tell if she will turn around.

The MB seminars are great....my H and I went. I think there's one in November somewhere....consider going. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I remember the electric pulses. Pretty horrible. I decided they were a sort of anxiety attack. I'm on Antidepressants and I don't have them anymore. I would suggest you be evaluated by your Dr. and or counselor to see if they would be appropriate for your situation.

There are so many things that you need to learn right now. I would suggest digesting all the info on this site and continuing on with the books that you are reading. Read SAA and start plan A quick. Or find the links that are on this site to what plan A is. It is usually for the BS to win back the WS when they are still in an affair but I don't see it doing any harm to your situation. JMHO here.

Definitely try to schedule some MC with the Harley's. If your W won't do it then do IC and try to look at this thing from her point of view. If you have been LBing for a 1-1/2 yr. until 3mo. ago your W probably has a negative LB (Love Bank) balance. You need to counter this by meeting her EN's if she will allow you to. It sounds like she is starting to go into withdrawl and you don't want that. Be considerate of her needs and don't engage in any LB's ever.

Keep posting when you need to vent. And don't give up on your M.

C.

welcome ww1...I usually don't solicit using the HArley's (NOT because they aren't good--if you read here, they are great!,--but just for "personal" reasons. However, this is the second time this weekend: It might be a good idea to set something up with the Harley's.

I, too, can't answer your question. I can only think about (in your sit) that your W went through years being by herslef. She may realize she doesn't "need" you. She may be just exhausted from it all. Really, only she can answer that. Is there ANY way you can have her go to MC? Speak with the Harley's? Come here? She seems to be holdinig back years of this turmoil and that is (obviously) not healthy for your M nor her.

I hope and pray the best for you. I'm sure you'll get more responses durin ghte week--the weekends are slower (and it was a long post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'd like to welcome you here, and to say sorry
that you have to be here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

If at all possible, maybe you could set yourself up an appointment with Steve Harley? I suggest this first off, because your W has read at least some of the books, maybe she would be more inclined to counsel with the counselor who follows those principles?

Hi WW1,

Get a copy of Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and see if your W would read that book.

I read HN/HN, and SAA...and for me, they were good books, but as a BS, I felt that these books reall didn't address how I felt as a BS. Torn Asunder is a bit harder for a WS to read, but it doesn't pull any punches, and your W might find Dave Carder's processes more in line with what she's feeling right now.

It is possible to recover from an A, and is sounds like you are doing well in trying to earn her trust back... Don't give up hope.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

went to first session of mc and wife said she thought it was a waste of money, that he isn't going to tell us anything that we haven't already read or talked about. after the session we talked that night and the next morning. it was a good talk and said she was in self preservation mode that the only way to protect herself is to lock up and not let the feelings in along with other things of wanting to be independant etc. the next morning i asked that when she got married if she did that to be independant and she said no and then i asked if she that is what she really wanted and she said she didn't know what she really wanted. the word if still comes up a lot every time we discuss divorce. i am so confused. sometimes she will take a hug and a kiss and often times she will not. i don't know what to think. next week we go to seperate appointments. in the first she said she was 100 percent for divorce and that the mc goal was to make me comfortable with it. mine of was reconciliation. any advice when the bs is the one withdrawn?

1. My wife sat me down recently and told me how unhappy she was and how she thought she could live with it but couldn't.

2. She has gone in the other direction and asked for a divorce at one point.

3. She says she does not have it in her to reconcile and that if she tried she would be doing it for everyone else (children,myself) and not her.

4. Says she has nothing left, no love, no willingness to reconcile, her heart is lead she said.

5. She no longer says I love you and seldom receives a hug.

6. She says that she hears what I am saying but it floats around because she has been conditioned that she does not know what is going on in my head.

7. She says she does not think about how to get our marriage back on track but how to get out from under it.

8. She said she had no desire to go to counseling and that divorce was enevitable and she didn't want to lose time to get on her with life.

9. Says she feels she does not know whom she is, that she feel like a cave woman who has been dragged by the hair and has gotten up and kicked the cave man out of the cave.

10. A few days ago she said she was going to make the transition easier and that I had delusions of grandeur on reconciliation.

11. That she wasn't thinking about how to get back on track that her train was in another country.

It is really amazing how the words coming out of your W's mouth sound so similar to what a WW often says to her BH when she refuses anything to do with marital recovery...

....meanwhile, back at the ranch.... She does NOT file for a divorce!!!

She has NOT filed! This means there is ambivilence. Use her ambivilence to woo her over.

Meet her needs without expectation of her meeting yours any time soon.... This woman could be yours but it will take more effort...

Pep