Bob (and others):

"Serious point actually, I am not sure I can be in a sustained M recovery if FWW retains that view all her life. Early day now though, she needs time a space to reconsider so many things."

I KNOW that I can't be in a M with my FWW if she keeps believing - like she does now - that her past intimacy with RM is a private matter between her and him and not my business.

Right now, this is still a "I'd rather be married than right" scenario for me. But it won't stay that way forever. Right now, I gain the most by being my W's H, not harping about her complaints about marriage and her unwillingness 2 even call me "H" (she calls me her "Spouse"). When I focus on those things, and the privacy/secrecy things, I get nowhere. Penny concurred. When I stopped (some time ago verbally, but nearly completely internally now), the miracle on our vacation occurred: Without me saying a word, my W FELT the pain I feel when she says "I don't think anybody should get married" and changed her behavior 2wards me. I have no idea whether it's permanent or not, but I'm not so concerned about it anymore than I was.

I don't even know what RM looks like. I saw him once at a party (with his xW and their first baby) for maybe a few minutes over 13 years ago. And yet, I KNOW that he's a philandering [censored]. I admit that I DO hate him, though I'm working on making him a "non person" in my mind so that he can become one in our M. I know enough about him 2 know that even2ally my W will realize he wasn't the "devoted friend" she made herself believe he was all these years. I can't convince her of that, she has 2 come 2 the realization herself.

And so I also say that there may be a small chance that I've got it wrong, and that he really is the great scientist she believes he is, and that their collaboration and friendship is more important than our marriage. I really am ready now, after all this time, 2 let her go completely if this is the case, because 13 years of secrecy and the breakup of his M means that I won't be in my W's fu2re if he is. That might sound like I've got vindictive thoughts, but I don't. If I did, I wouldn't be hanging in there patiently after 33 months since d-day. I *do* see progress and signs of doubt in my W's actions and remarks that show me she's still going through painful growth from her experiences.

Remember, 2, that recovery is said 2 take on average 2-5 years, longer when dealing with long-term As. We really only started about 14 months ago, when my W quit her job that RM consulted for her on, leaving him 2 deal with her control-freak supervisor and explaining 2 HER why he was over a year late getting his reports 2rnd in. He ended up not finishing. Quite a guy, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I KNOW that I can't be in a M with my FWW if she keeps believing - like she does now - that her past intimacy with RM is a private matter between her and him and not my business.

Right now, this is still a "I'd rather be married than right" scenario for me. But it won't stay that way forever. Right now, I gain the most by being my W's H, not harping about her complaints about marriage and her unwillingness 2 even call me "H" (she calls me her "Spouse"). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree 2long. Our M would be play acting if I always suspected I was the booby prize as we moved through life together.

My baby has come along way in three months though, so I have high hopes. Also, OM is such an obvious bottom feeding scum-sucker that she can't fail to see what she's been shovelling at some point....surely... ? Can she ?

* sigh *

Still, one day at a time. FWW said to me today over lunch " what a shame it took THIS fo rus to remember how much we love each other, and how to treat each other". Not sure what that meant, but it doesn;t sound too negative OR supportive of OM scumbag.

BTW I know OM. I shook his hand at the airport on teh way to Italy in June and said" Take good care of my baby, I love her".
He said he would. And started an affair with her while he was over there. Thats the main reason I want to beat the snot out of him.

2long and my situation are similar in that some considerable time has passed and while that doesn't equate necessarily to healing it does give an opportunity for perspective. In the beginning I did hate OM for what he took from me but she was looking for something or someone to add some excitement in her life. Bob P, you said W was pleased because OM complimented her on her new hair style. That's how much she needed that admiration. So with that in mind OM could have been anybody. But looking you in the eye and shaking your hand etc. is very painful no doubt. But consider the possibility that W needed him at that particular time in her life. She was in a dark place and perhaps particularly vulnerable. I'm not excusing him but try to devote all of your energy towards recovering. You have children so you and your W have been blessed with this second chance to raise your family together.

And some of the conversations you are having I would love to have. Same with CV. Her and her H have dialogue that I would kill for. At home we continue to pretent this is all in the rearview mirror but for me it's a hood ornament.

CV, yes there are predators and my W met one; no doubt. But I think on Sunday I showed her that I have no malice towards OM but simply want to recover my M. She has focused so much on how I hold a grudge and look down on people etc. I don't know if she really believes that but at the supermarket I made it extremely clear that I bear no malice towards this guy. That's just about completely true. Your H's OM is a different case. She was looking to replace you as well as H's partner. So nothing wrong despising her but you need to watch that it doesn't derail recovery. Every case is certainly unique. But the one thing that can be taken from mine is that the OP doesn't have to have any especially fine points. That is described in HNHN how the OP never is what you expect. So all the comparison stuff that goes on right after D-Day is a waste of time. But nobody can tell you that at the time. You have to experience it. But it sounds like 2longs, Bob's and your spouses are all starting to defog. And I am happy to add that I consider my W part of this group. Ever so slowly she is starting to understand the damage she has done. I really believe by the time the holidays pass she will realize that I will NEVER be in the pool teams company again. She can rant and rave but she will eventually understand that as a fact of our lives. And without your S by your side at couples events it will get heavier and heavier for her. I don't know how I do what I do but I know she needs more support than I do right now. Maybe the time will come when we can discuss this and profess our love for eachother but right now she still needs me to be strong. And that has not really ever been my role in the M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I'm not excusing him but try to devote all of your energy towards recovering. You have children so you and your W have been blessed with this second chance to raise your family together.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOE, I am not using any energy at all on hating OM. I just look forward to the opportunity to beat the snot from him in the same way as I would relish the chance to play guitar in a band with Peter Buck !

Really, I'd like to twat him, but I'm not eaten up by it at all.

He is currently shovelling whats left of his miserable life into a sack right now anyway. My twatting him might just be therapeutic for him...

May I join this OM love fest?

My OMM (ugly, writing that) is a player. Maybe not first string, but he sure knew what he was doing. W admits she participated willingly, but every stage of their A was his idea. He is the one who took it to the next level every time. He strung her along very professionally.

He's one of these God's gift to women guys. Former fighter pilot, company test pilot. Scarf still streaming behind him when he's standing in a closed room. Very arrogant and self-assured. Lots of money and expensive toys. SAHW jumping to his every whim. A consummate liar and manipulator. Tried to feed me lines like I was his straight-man when I confronted him. Months later he called me all angry and upset because I talked to his wife. A major jerk. A major ego.

I went through a period of all consuming hatred for the scumbag. I plotted many revenges, many attacks - physical and financial, many insults. All of them actually doable.

I could take him in an alley pretty easily, I think. But, why risk my reputation and freedom? I have a brother who has friends in low places. They would do me a favor, no charge, if I asked. Think kneecaps. And never traceable to me. Well, not until now.

Appearances are everything to him. Revealing his activities to his bosses would hurt him a lot.

I have proof of activities that would probably get him fired from his job. I have security info that could possibly get him arrested.

I have additional info about his A's that might be enough to end his current M. I even thought of having a friend (rich, single, playboy type - a real womanizer) try to seduce his W after I reveal all the sordid facts to her.

I have not acted on any of this, though. I feel so sorry for his W. She seems like a very nice person. She and their two young daughters love him. I can't hurt her any more than she is already. (They started their A on his youngest daughters first birthday. What a dad! What a future anniversary for them.)

W says she just wants to forget about him. But I think I still detect wistful thoughts on occasion. I still detect a desire to protect him. But my nasty thinking about him does show through, and it affects our recovery.

So I am stopping these thoughts as best I can. I hear all the time forgiveness is for the hurt person. Hatred is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to get sick. Yeah, right. Does not compute. Not yet anyway.

Do you guys think is it wrong to pray for someone's death? I assume people prayed for Hitler's death in WW2. Or Sadam’s and Osama’s even now. How about praying for OMM's demise? Would that be a sin? If he were dead the world certainly would be a better place, even for his wife, I think. Would urinating on his grave be OK?

Some day I hope to forget he exists. But it won't be for a while.

T

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Thos ]</small>

All I can say is that I am not ready to even want to forgive the BI***. Period! I am improving. I used to daily have the thought, "I hate that "F"ing "B" about 100 times a day. I actually have had days where I barely think about her. For some reason she has entered my consciousness again. I am not consumed by her. I realize the one face to face conversation after d-day I said "I don't forgive you, but I don't wish you ill will." Well, now that many more details have emerged I do wish her a crappy life. At least for now. I am aware that this isn't a very spiritual way of being, so I'll get over it in time. For now I am very happy that she screwed up so many aspects of her life. I would LOVE to point them all out to her, starting out with destroying a great career she could have had.

I guess I was lucky WOE because I never was jealous of her. I told H today that I never really lost my self-esteem. I knew she was a loser. I knew I would have been devastated if h left me for her, which was a real possibility. However, somewhere inside me I also knew he would have been miserable with her in time. Now I think he sees that too. In the A her clingy neediness made him feel loved. Now he realizes he would have felt smothered by her. I guess you could say she and I are very opposite in that way.

WOE, I think I mentioned once to you my feelings about communication. H and I today began a Steve assignment which was to share our EN questionairres. I'm sure like a lot of women 2 of my top ENs are Conversation and Openness and Honesty. Both of those needs got thrown right out the window with H's A. If we are going to continue to recover I won't not have those ENs met. No can do! It hit me today that the reason I have been able to tolerate asking and getting the answers to all the gory sexual details is because of those ENs. It's painful, but better for me to know. H is a natural conflict avoider, which helped get us into this mess to begin with. I guess what I am trying to say is H doesn't have a choice if he wants to recover with me. Either we have a M where we have no secrets and talk about what has occurred and what we need to do to recover, or it ain't gonna happen.

I am glad your W is coming around. You have had the patience of a saint. I guess we all deserve to be canonized! CV

All I can say is that I am not ready to even want to forgive the BI***. Period! I am improving. I used to daily have the thought, "I hate that "F"ing "B" about 100 times a day. I actually have had days where I barely think about her. For some reason she has entered my consciousness again. I am not consumed by her. I realize the one face to face conversation after d-day I said "I don't forgive you, but I don't wish you ill will." Well, now that many more details have emerged I do wish her a crappy life. At least for now. I am aware that this isn't a very spiritual way of being, so I'll get over it in time. For now I am very happy that she screwed up so many aspects of her life. I would LOVE to point them all out to her, starting out with destroying a great career she could have had.

I guess I was lucky WOE because I never was jealous of her. I told H today that I never really lost my self-esteem. I knew she was a loser. I knew I would have been devastated if h left me for her, which was a real possibility. However, somewhere inside me I also knew he would have been miserable with her in time. Now I think he sees that too. In the A her clingy neediness made him feel loved. Now he realizes he would have felt smothered by her. I guess you could say she and I are very opposite in that way.

WOE, I think I mentioned once to you my feelings about communication. H and I today began a Steve assignment which was to share our EN questionairres. I'm sure like a lot of women 2 of my top ENs are Conversation and Openness and Honesty. Both of those needs got thrown right out the window with H's A. If we are going to continue to recover I won't not have those ENs met. No can do! It hit me today that the reason I have been able to tolerate asking and getting the answers to all the gory sexual details is because of those ENs. It's painful, but better for me to know. H is a natural conflict avoider, which helped get us into this mess to begin with. I guess what I am trying to say is H doesn't have a choice if he wants to recover with me. Either we have a M where we have no secrets and talk about what has occurred and what we need to do to recover, or it ain't gonna happen.

I am glad your W is coming around. You have had the patience of a saint. I guess we all deserve to be canonized! CV

Thos, thanks for visiting. First I want to confirm that I do believe in evil people. In the book "The Road Less Travelled" by Scott Peck he talks about the forces of good and bad and his belief that there are inherently bad people. He is a very accomplished psychiatrist and I do agree with this assessment. You situation sounds like you have indeed encountered one. But I tend to leave the revenge thing to karma. I have seen my W's OM have enough bad luck that I don't need to worry about him. A couple of weeks ago he fell off a ladder. Of course I smile inside. His GF's always end up cheating on him simply because that is what he expects to happen as well as the crowd he travels in. So I look at my W for bringing these people into our lives. I will jokingly refer to them as "sub" people. So I don't blame my OM it's simply what he is. And again he acted admirably if I'm honest with myself. He had ONS when my W was ready to run away with him. But I do think that there is something to be said for letting go. And that forgiveness is for the injured. If your M recovers fully I think this process will be a lot easier. My case is a good point. You would think I could get over ONS by now. Probably lots of people wondering why the hell I'm still here. Well just this morning W asked me if she could hold a practice for the pool team at our home. I said sure and this means OM comes. She then asked would I stay. I said no, I'll go out for the evening. She walked away dejected and left to get her nails done. She is still determined to have him in our lives and I am just as determined that he goes. Of course mine is the more reasonable request. But she somehow can't understand that. She thinks I just hold onto the past. But the past is the here and now for me.

CV, I said you were lucky and I take that back. I don't think any of us our lucky to be here. But you are in a position to recover and I applaud that. Yes I am patient. But after today's request to have me attend pool practice I realize she continues in her delusion that time will heal this. I am very seriously considering writing her a letter and explaining all I have been through and much I would like to heal if she would only let me. And that it's not me who's holding onto the past but her. I don't want this to drag into the holidays where she continues to hope I'll soften and join holiday parties. My situation does seem a bit unique but I really am on more solid footing then her these days and maybe such a letter will open up the lines of communication. I'll keep you posted on how I go with this.

WOE

Sorry about the double post. The 1st one got lost in cyberspace, but I guess it came back.

WOE, forgive me, but this is something I just don't get. OK, I'm going to be very crude and blunt, as I'm shaking my head. Why in the world is it OK for your W to allow the man she screwed, (ONS or not)to come into YOUR home? I understand your strategy to not attend pool events, parties with this group, etc. But why in the HE** do you need to leave your home? Tell your fogged out W to have pool practice at someone else's house because frankly you don't want the guy she slept with in your home!!!

Sorry WOE, you know that every so often I have to have a vent on your behalf. Just can't help it. Your W is very fortunate you don't have my personality. I'm speechless. Don't have anything else to say. Actually I do have more to say, but I will zip it for now. CV

WOE I'd have a great use for a pool cue if that mo'fo' came into my house. You must be blessed with great patience.

Thos:

"But my thinking about him does show through, and it affects our recovery."

My point exactly.

Look, there are bad people, or at least people who choose consistently 2 eschew bad character and care less about taking advantage of others. In your case, hating the OM seems "easy" because he's a predator. In my case, my W has told me many times that she persued RM, not the other way around. That affects a lot of my thinking, sometimes adversly at times.

From the time I've spent learning since D-day, I've come 2 know, lately in particular, that I want 2 keep working on recovery because I know that it's liberating 2 take responsibility for one's life and choices in that life. That I have a family that deserves my efforts 2 keep it 2gether also appeals 2 my belief in my own integrity. It all helps, and it's particularly necessary because progress on my W's end is so slow that I have gotten 2 the point where, without the previously mentioned factors, I just don't want 2 be married 2 her right now. I believe that feeling can change, though, because I've seen it many times on here. And so I persist.

It really does burn calories 2 keep harboring hatred for the OP, though. No matter what you all might think.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It really does burn calories 2 keep harboring hatred for the OP, though. No matter what you all might think.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2long you are correct. It DOES burn calories my ongoing savouring of my hoped for physical retaliation against OM. But IMO its RIGHT for a wronged man to feel this way. It is CORRECT. The code of HONOUR I was raised with dictates that this is GOOD.

He took what is MINE without my consent. It does not matter that my FWW offered it. He dishonoured and humilated me in the worst way imaginable.

He deserves a freaking good kicking from me. He would wake from the beating knowing he had it coming. He would spend his every day afterwards in fear of my further wrath. Which is as it should be.

NO its not Christian, or PC or healthy but it it feels RIGHT. It is "manly" IMO. I was made a man. This is the way of men.

I will not apologise for being a man.
I LOVE he fact that he fears my retribution now according to his GF. He is right to fear me.

I SAVOUR his fear of me.

2x4 me, go ahead. I'm just saying what a lot of men think. Including you if you are honest I think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

This feeling may go away, or I might have to seek him out and break him. Whatever.

Sorry, raising gorrilla dust isn't popular on here. But thats life IMO.

2long, I'm all for burning some more calories! The A depression, weight loss diet hasn't been working so well now that the A is over and I'm less depressed. Darn! The only good thing that came out of H's A. So if my hating OW helps me burn some calories, I'm all for it!

Seriously, my goal is to one day be completely indifferent to her sorry soul. Right now I just can't stand the "B". CV

CV, Woe, 2, Bob

Interesting thread.

The OM in my life is a freaking real estate agent, and he has signs in yards all over our part of town.

Before I found MB, my FWW threatened to "leave if I "messed" with him. Now at 6'4" and 235 lbs, I can be quite menacing, even at the ripe old age of 53.

Anyway, had I found MB before I confronted and was believing all that then WW said, I would have cost OM his job. You see, they met when FWW was looking for houses for my middle son, and any pursuit of my FWW was strictly verboten, in the professional sense. Throughout the EA, there meetings were under the guise of home seller/home buyer. The company is a large, national company, and if I had it to do over (20-20 hindsight), I'd have burned him a a stake, professionally speaking. I cannot believe had I reported him to the HMFIC's in charge, that they would have kept him on the job.

About 6 weeks ago, we attended a B-day party for a friend, and I thought the OM may just happen to be a mutual friend, and show up at the party. Well, he was, and he did, with a new GF. I was bristling when we got there, with anticipation, but when I saw OM I was TENSE. FWW calmed me and told me everything would be "alright" (protected me). So I was trying to chill out.

OM walked towards the center of the room and spotted me, and waved awkwardly. I nodded my head to acknowledge his wave, while at the same time I gave him a "look" that seared right to the back of his head. He went over, got a couple of beers, offered his birthday greeting to the guest of honor, and left, without ever looking our way again.

I chalked it all up as a moral victory. I have not seen him since.

If it weren't for all those damn 'remax' signs all over the world, I've have very few triggers.

Woe: Are you taking any bites out of the elephant in your living room. I haven't seen that you have had any substantive talks with FWW in your posts. The time is RIGHT!

Bob: You took to plan A like a duck to water. You inspired a lot of people on these boards. I hope things are progressing well for you!

2long: Your posts have inspired many people here, as well. I'm one of your faithful readers, albiet lurking more than posting recently.

CV: My great MB buddy, you sound great! You have come so far, and it appears you are slowly working through all of these issues, perhaps with the diligence which is REALLY required to improve a marriage damaged by an A. Your posts inspire so many people, mostly lurkers, it seems, who are hesitant to post here. You have a gift in writing exactly those emotions you are feeling, and people identify with them intensely. Your posting here is a great service to readers, and hopefully, therapudic for you, as well. Keep up the good work!

Best wishes to all...

SD

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

SD, we're in recovery, just about, so progressing OK. Nice and slow, but already so promising. Trying not to get too excited. I keep reminding myself that right now, I'm probably still FWWs second choice of man. Soon calms me down ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Re your meeting OM, you were very restrained. I just hope I don't meet my OM.

If I see him I will hurt him, no choice.

It may reflect badly on me.

Bob,

I "implied" more to OM with the look I gave him than I could have said in an hour. My dad was a school superintendent, and I "know" how to give that look. I received it a LOT during my childhood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You should probably allow your mind to believe you "might" take the high road, should you ever meet him face to face, because the fallout from a physical confrontation could damage you and your FWW's recovery, not to mention your personal life and well being.

I said the same things you are saying about the OM for the first 6 months after D-Day, but when the "time" came, I chose the maybe less ego satisfying route, the high road.

You will too!

SD

CV, why do I have to leave my house? Because I choose to. In IC today I told Dr. that I am tired of playing the fool and that's why I'm not in OM's company. He told me I'm not playing the fool, but choosing not to reveal what I know. I agreed and noted that this does give me power. I could reduce OM to tears if I wanted to. I don't have that need anymore. I often ask myself am I keeping away because of Pain or Principal or Pride or something else. I continually evaluate this position because I understand it taxes W tremendously. So I make sure it is what I want to do and not to hurt W. But CV, please understand the result of me offering to leave my home. W said "then I won't have it". It doesn't work without me. She can't have the image of happy marriage and party girl at the same time. That is her problem to resolve. I don't care what THEY think. In the end, of course you are right. OM has no business being in my life. She is holding on for dear life. But just like 2long mentioned that his W pursued RM. In your case knowing that OW pursued your H is comforting to you and it should be. I don't have such comfort as my situation is completely reverse and therefore may require a different approach. Can you imagine what kind of LB it would be for me to beat up or humble OM in anyway. He is pathetic enough and W would resent this forever. BECAUSE in her mind and reality she did this to him and not the other way around. She was 41 and he 29. Numbers similar to your H and OW. All of this needs to be considered as every case is unique.

BobP, you're right about a mans natural reaction. But their is something to be said for taking the high road. If my M fails I will know that I didn't make a major mistake in my handling of the situation. Lot's of little ones but no major one. And getting into a fight with other man would have been a major mistake for my situation for the reasons cited to CV. W drug him into this situation to a large extent. He once told her, when she complained that I was too controlling, that I loved her. I dreamed of revenge for a long time. But in time you will perhaps see the wisdom of SD's response. And he's a big guy.

SD, you're right I haven't had the talk with W. I had the explosion followed by the supermarket encounter followed by this mornings request to enjoy OM's company again. But I talked to IC about writing a letter to W. He said that is a good idea because you don't make mistakes in a letter. I'm nervous but I'm going to do it. The only thing I want to convey is that I won't ever be in OM's company again, not to punish her but to help and protect me. For now it is OK that she is still in contact. As SH had predicted this has gotten very, very heavy for her. And my reason for the letter is to let her know I'm not trying to crush her but only recover our M. She is no longer in love with him in my opinion. I would say that development is only about 6-8 weeks old. I have some positive things working for me at pool that keep her from having conversations with him. A new member (female) who monopolizes W's time. W has complained many times to me about this woman but I think she is heaven sent. I will be sure to send the letter and let you know the results. You are right that the time is right. I don't want to spend the holidays arguing over this same nonsense. Thanks for visiting.

WOE

Bob:

"But IMO its RIGHT for a wronged man to feel this way. It is CORRECT. The code of HONOUR I was raised with dictates that this is GOOD."

I submit that you feel this way now because you believe you're the consolation prize. I don't believe you ever were, because the A wasn't "real", in the sense that OM couldn't ever replace the father of your W's children in her life. She may have thought so during the A, maybe even seems 2 think so now, but it was never true.

IMO, it is UNDERSTANDABLE for a "wronged" man 2 feel this way.

"There is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so." -Shakespeare.

It's all a matter of perspective, and I *think* your perspective may change with time.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

No high road for me. I just want to pummel her! As I said, it would be pummeling in which I beat the crap out of her with my words. I have been so very effective in getting H to spill everything to me, now there are barely any gory details left. SD, you just wouldn't believe the question I asked him the other day. Well, it wasn't that bad. But given how folks here don't seem to relish the sex details, it was a squirm inspiring question. Luckily he didn't do THAT with her! Anywho, I'd let her know I know every little special detail they shared with each other. That's would just part of the fun!

SD, I always smile when I see your name. Picturing the "look" you gave OM gave me another revenge fantasy. OK, it's an add on to my revenge H fantasy where he ends up with OW and is miserable. I borrow you for the evening and we show up at the sleezy bar she hangs out in. I point them out, then the 6'4", 235lb. you gives my 5'10 1/2", 170 lb. H your best LOOK ever. WOW, I'm smiling as I write that fantasy. Oh darn, that H just wouldn't leave me when I kept asking him to go. Maybe you could just fly in for the day and you and I could go to the sleezy bar and you could glare at OW, then I could verbally bash her. Sometimes it feels good to be a vengeful "B".

SD, H has turned another corner. I woke up a few days ago and felt down and realized it was because, gee, my H had an A. I keep a journal and decided to read what I wrote during that time. OMG, was he a royal jerk. We went for a walk that night and my good little Plan Aing self went away, and the Black Mamba came out. I was pissed, asking him how he could actually love me and have been such a creep. Now he is conveniently using the fog theory. "Fog this!" The good news is that it finally isn't just about Plan Aing him all the time. He actually said something like he will have to prove to me that he is a good man and loves me. Something like that!

All in all I have indulged in very few of my Black Mamba barbs. Those were kind of fun. About twice a month H will use one particular one in front of me, then I have to apologize. He'll say something like, "I know all the women are looking at me because I'm such a BABE MAGNET." Remember that one?

SD, thanks for the kind words. I don't know if I inspire anybody, I just feel the need to give back here. As I wrote before, we wouldn't be here if it weren't for friends like you. I told H yesterday when we were out to lunch that I feel like there are certain people here, like you, who I could meet tomorrow and it would be like we've known each other for years. You can't go through what we've been through and share what we all have, and not know each other.

SD, I hope your recovery is going well too. Also that the SF issue is improving. I hope some of that info I gave you months ago helped in some way. CV

SD, WOE I don't want to labour this BUT the only way I could take the high road without feeling cowardly would be to subdue the pr1ck and render him unable to defend hismelf against my attack. Then to warn him and withdraw.

Right now he wonders if my anger, physique and upbringing might be enough to take his Karate experience.

I have no doubts whatsoever. I would break him. When his GF told me AGAIN today that he fears to meet or speak to me it made me actually smile.

I hope he lives in fear of me every quiet moment until his miserable death. He should.

Enough Clint Eastwood talk from me now ! You all get the picture ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And yet his GF shamed me today when I think about it. She told me she doesn't hate my FWW, just thought she's a silly tart who should've known better at forty years old.

She's a better person than me. I want to pick his teeth from my heels. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />