The infamous Fogman has been rattled by Plan B and now is talking about coming home.

5 days into Plan B, he was panicking and begging me to talk to him. He travelled home last weekend after saying he wouldn't, but we weren't there, thank GOD!

He says he wants Plan A back. He HAS to talk to me. He says he is feeling better about us and not talking would be a huge LB. Well, he insists he is not trying to weasle his way back into cake-eating.

He says he is coming home for our oldest son's birthday in November, earlier if the house sells before then.

I have been reinforcing the lighthouse effect of Plan A and B to him. I think he really gets it now. I said I will be here for you and that we can have a better M. We talked about the MB principles (we have already become familiar with them) and how they can create a MUCH better M for us.

I wish he would come home sooner, but he says he wants to be sure, and not come back and leave again.

We POJA'd about Plan B: I will respond to his calls/beeps if he needs to talk to me for one week. If I feel OK, we will take it from there.

We almost agreed to put our wedding rings back on, but we're not ready for that yet.

We have no idea where we will live after the house sells, but we have a vague idea, so there is much work to be done. I will NOT move to Maine, period. More POJA needed.

Now, this may sound great and all, but I don't want to get all excited about this cr*p yet. He swears he's not leading me on and he means what he says, but he is still the Fogman underneath it all, even if some light is shining through to him.

He doesn't want to stay in the town where we live for long, because he feels humiliated. I didn't say anything, knowing that he cannot run from this wherever he goes. Maybe he can go stay with his dear G-mom in Florida for a few weeks after coming back. That would be acceptable to me, as long as he doesn't think we're moving down there (too darn hot, and too far from my family).

Whattdya all think??????

Did he mention a NC letter to OW? Was that in your Plan B letter?

What were the other conditions of your Plan B?

No, we didn't discuss a NC letter yet, but NC is a definite condition. He is just starting to read SAA, so I hope this will become more apparent. He is a stubborn SOB, and will not just agree to everything in all of this! He POJA'd an end to Plan B, remember? This is stinky in that he is not prepared to come back right away, but with selling the house and getting new jobs, I can't think of a more stressful time to work on a M.

OK, I just told my mother he said he was coming back. She hung up on me. She is shocked that I would take him back. Of course she is! My parents have been planning for us to move in with them temporarily because I was going to get a D.

How do you deal with the disbelief and hate from friends and family?? I was very open with them during this whole ordeal and they have helped me immensely. Fogman has been in hiding and won't talk to anyone yet.

HELP!!!!

This may not be what you want to hear and I admit that I don't necessarily agree with a lot of the MB principles (essentially being a doormat) but I understand what your parents feel. Your husband is being a coward and though you want him back in your heart, the fact that he essentially manipulated you out of Plan B says a lot. I am soory, but if he wants you and the marriage the OW would be gone and he would be doing everhthing he could do to win you back. Only with faced with not talking to you does he pull this. I think he is being a cakeman and you are letting him off easily. MAKE HIM WORK FOR THIS. He felt a little of the heat of Plan B and you let him off the hook afer 5 days. Please don't be offended by my opinion, but after reading your story, if I was your mom and dad I would have hung up on you also. I know I may catch flack on here for this, but this is just my opinion. May God Bless you and help you through this.

Thanks for your honesty Lemonman, I do really appreciate it. I can't help but agree with you. He is still being a cakeman until OW is outta the picture, which he conveniently can have around a little longer. I do expect him to withdraw his offer to come home at the slightest ripple. My parents are so wonderful, I hate that they are hurting, too. This whole mess just sucks eggs! AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

Hi What.....

I agree with Lemonman. You are letting your WH off too easily.

I know this from my personal Plan B experience.

After the first 3 weeks of Plan B, my WH left me a letter. He wanted to love me, romance me, and be the husband he never was.

The last line of the letter should have sent up red flags everywhere!!! "If you do want me back, just let me know, and I will resolve things on my end once and for all."

I ended up going on a "date" with WH. He told everyone he was moving back home. Then, he didn't call for a week.

It's been back and forth, until this past week, when he was supposed to break up with OW. Well, he just didn't HAVE THE TIME! And he was mad at ME while telling me all his excuses! ROAD APPLES!!

Go Plan B, go DARK. DO NOT BACK OFF.

Your WH should meet your conditions of reconciliation, and do MUCH more in order to win you back.

I see this now. I hope it's not too late for us.
I have gone dark. I'm staying there until I get some REAL ACTION from WH.

DON'T FALL BACK. GO FORWARD!!

K

Thanks K.

I need to figure this out. I've been thinking all night about how I feel like he is manipulating me. If he wants to really come back (which I think he's not REALLY ready) he is just forcing me to tolerate the A longer. I'm in this for 7 months already, I am dying inside and all h*ll has brokrn loose in my life, and I'm supposed to just believe him? Scary... he's not running home professing love or any of that stuff I want him to do, or he needs to do.

He's so entangled with that frickin OW. He's too wimpy to just walk out on her (even though that's exactly what he did to ME on my birthday, that rat). If he's still teetering on the fence, why would he say he's coming home? I'm thinking to give me a bone so I will talk to him.

I'm not gonna be calling him. I told him I would answer his calls, but I plan on letting him sweat a little. He wants me to call him if I need to talk, but I don't think so. That's why I went to Plan B in the first place, to stop the same old same old same old conversations.

God help me!

Be strong, you can do this. I think that you are dying a thousand deaths with this. I know that mnay people on here preach PLAN A PLAN A PLAN A, but what youre husabnd has done to you is ridiculous. Reading your story last night made me so mad I wanted to personally beat the $hit out of him. He left you with a 4 month OLD. He says he does not like Plan B, and wants you to go back to Plan B !!!!!!!!!!!!!! My God, what a creep. PLEASE, save your dignity. Be strong here.

Lemonman and K are right.

Re-implenent Plan B. I think it was Orchid who said everytime her WH broke Plan B without following through on the conditions, she upped the conditions. I would do the same.

You really have no choice now but to go back into Plan B. This is a power struggle and you have to regain and retain control.

Yes, YES, YES!

Go back into Plan B. And DO NOT answer his calls. This is the hardest thing I have tried to do so far.

If you do, it always ends up in the same old, same old conversation! ALWAYS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Some of my friends have told me to protect myself (I'm sure they meant legally). Plan B is one way to protect myself.

Protect yourself and your heart. Do not let him weasel his way back.

Everyone here that posted to me was right (even tho I didn't want to listen). My WH just can't seem to make the TIME to break his A off.

The only thing that shows me is that he is putting myself and our M way down on his list.

Go DARK. Don't break it. He needs to sweat a LOT! He needs to be breaking his neck to get you back! That's what I'm waiting for.

K

I will try to reimplement Plan B. I feel like cr*p since I said I wouldn't, but then again, he has not kept a single promise in 7 months.

He got so darn pissed off when I was ignoring him. I definitely got some satisfaction from that! But, if he is now promising to come back, can I ease up? I just cannot see clearly right now. He hasn't yet committed to do NC or even stay long at the house, saying he cannot face the town. He is a coward, and I'm sick of it.

I want to send Lemonman to beat him up, but you know what???? I don't even know his physical address, just his PO box. He told me yesterday he didn't want to give it to me because he didn't want to be served. OMG, this is eating me alive!

This better be worth it in the end. I am doubting it all, and my family is losing it. They have tried so hard to be supportive, but I hope they can hang in there with me to the end. Fogman is at least considering reconciliation now, which is lightyears from where he was 1 month ago. UUUGGGHHH!

You're doing the right thing.

As you said - he hasn't kept any of the promises he has made to you.

My WH makes promises, then when the time comes, he just can't seem to fulfill them. He's not ready to commit to our M.

He's made suicide threats, yelled at me, almost everything in the book. He says he's given his notice at his apartment to move out at then end of the month.

Know what I say? He hasn't been INVITED to move back home. He managed to carry on his A for 2 years before he moved out. Then moved out last November to "save gas and time" for his commute.

LIES! He was probably hoping that I would divorce him, then it would be ME who had walked out of the M.

I already told him he is FREE. He can do whatever he wants (always has been free). The only thing he CAN'T do is run my life and control me now.

We'll be DARK together. Get STRONG, and STAY strong. It's the only thing that is going to work!

And I know it's hard, but the other side of this is even worse.

Hugs to you

K

Don't listen to his words. I have done that for 21 months now. My WH has always told me he wants to stay married. Unfortunately he never can seem to get away from OW.

Like a dummy, I believed him. All it did was enable him to continue the affair. So you must stay dark, very dark. That is what may save your marriage.

This was a lot easier when my Love Bank was in the red, but now I'm letting him fill it up JUST WITH WORDS! Stupid emotions...they are so freaking strong. I actually was happier when I didn't feel much for him, but seeing a glimpse of light at the end of this hellish tunnel is stirring up some doubts.

I plan to lay out more rules for re-contact:
1) No sleeping in same bed as OW, use a cot or sleep on the couch. I want her and her kid to move out, but I seriously doubt this will happen.
2)Put on your wedding ring (and so will I).
3)No traveling back to Vermont WITH her (this was so incredibly painful for me).
4)Honesty with OW (this is asking a lot of my expert conflict-avoiding Fogman). He is probably cooking up lies to tell her as we speak.

And finally, before he is to move back in:
NO CONTACT LETTER approved and sent by me.

These things seem reasonable to me. Doncha think?

WAID:

Here's what I think. Take what you agree with and toss the rest.

"plan to lay out more rules for re-contact:
1) No sleeping in same bed as OW, use a cot or sleep on the couch. I want her and her kid to move out, but I seriously doubt this will happen."

If you're wording it this way 2 him, don't. Here's ol' 2long's suggested variant: 1) No sleeping in same TOWN as OW, from 5 o'clock this afternoon for the rest of your life. Demonstrate, through witness testimony, phone records, and computer passwords, that you have complied for a period of time of MY liking (this should be a month or more, not days), before we speak again. DO NOT COME HOME YET.

"2)Put on your wedding ring (and so will I)."

You can ask him 2 wear his ring, but you can't expect him 2. You can wear your ring if you like, but don't do so because of anything he's saying or doing, until you're truly in recovery with a qualified coach 2 help you through it.

"3)No traveling back to Vermont WITH her (this was so incredibly painful for me)."

Omit number 3. If you tell him that you won't even speak 2 him until he's demonstrated convincingly 2 you that OW is out of his life, then this is unnecessary anyway.

"4)Honesty with OW (this is asking a lot of my expert conflict-avoiding Fogman). He is probably cooking up lies to tell her as we speak."

Omit this "condition". Their whole relationship is dishonesty. They CAN'T be honest with one another while they are cheating. He doesn't need 2 be honest with her, he needs 2 STOP TALKING 2 her ALTOGETHER.

"And finally, before he is to move back in:
NO CONTACT LETTER approved and sent by me."

Agreed.

-ol' 2long

WhatamIdoing:

I think enough people here have given you great advice and opinions, it is now your turn to step up and make a decision. I feel very sorry for you becasue it is clear to everyone here that you are headed back to being hurt WITH CERTAINTY. There is no doubt in my mind that you will be here again in a few days or months, asking "what happened?" etc etc. I really think you are looking for anyone here to give you an opinion to go back to plan A and let him back in your life easily. It probably is not gonna happen. It is clear to all here that one phone call from him put you back "under" his spell. YOu have endured more hardship from this man than anyone person in this world should expect to take. Your conditions on RECONTACT are really just a rationalization to take him back. You are giving in to his terms more or less. You are compromsiing your dignity in accepting anything LESS than 100% NC NOW and a move back to you right away. YOU SHOULD ACCEPT NOTHING LESS. If you do, you can only blame yourself for the future hardship you and your kids endure as you let it happen. Please realize that while your parents love you and support you, every time you accept this man back on compromised terms you lose credibilty. Your parents hurt for you like you probably can't imagine. To see what is happening to you is tragic. Taking him back would be the true definition of insanity; "Doing the same over and over again and expecting different results". PLease do not think that I am putting you down, but I am giving you an honest opinion. It doesn't really matter what I think or anyone else thinks, but you have to make an ADULT decision here. YOu need to be selfish for your dignity and self pride While this site is great in that promotes marriage and family, you have to ask yourseff AT WHAT PRICE? YOur H has dishonored you and your children and as embarassing and humiliating as it may be for him "to come home and face the music", he needs to do it. He needs to be a man and fight for his marriage and family. You HAVE TO LET HIM DO IT, YOU CAN'T DO IT FOR HIM.

I pray for you and hope you find a way to reconcile this. It is easy for me to say go NC, but you are the one who has to do it, we feel your pain and support you.

2long

Thanks for the 2x4, I definitely need it today. I am famous for waffling, in fact I'm running out of syrup. Fogman has that horrible effect on me.

Lemonman

Thanks so much again for your gentle rebuking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I need to hear this to get back on track. He definitely put me under his spell again. He says he's coming home but won't commit to much of anything else. I cannot allow this, as I very well know in my heart. In my desperation/ desire to get him home I feel like I would agree to most anything at this point, which ultimately won't get me what I really want, which is a recovering M that we both work on.

I didn't answer his call tonight. Happy?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ October 06, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: What AmIDoing? ]</small>

Hi WAID,

Well,I know how ready you are to have your WH home and committed to you and so on but where's the fire? It's almost like you forgot what RULES apply when a WS mentions wanting to come home.My WH did the same and look where we are now.He never really committed to anything but lies and deception.As soon as I cut him off with my Plan B,he was using all kinds of tactics to get to me.He didn't like being without me or not having contact.It shook him and he was also terrified of a D which apparently,isn't the case anymore.

Go dark and stay dark until your WH meets all rules of Plan B renegotiation.He snowed you and you fell for it,now get back to the plan ma'm! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Keep us posted.

O

Ok, everyone, I get the point now. No moving home without following SAA, no visits and stuff until NC, No WAID being a wimp because she wants Fogman back no matter what.