I am e-mailing you from my place of employment--I can not focus on anything but my personal life right now. My husband and I have been a couple for 6 years and married for almost 2yrs. We got married when I was 27. We have no children, just a couple of cats. We have always had a roller coaster of a relationship--months would go by where we were getting along fine, and then boom--we would fight, and I would yell and explode at him. I knew I was being hurtful but thought he just didn't understand me and was determined to make him understand me. He has always had the tendency to be somewhat rude and condescending to people, and his patience has always been pretty short. I always made excuses for him--saying it was just work and blah blah blah. I love him very deeply and completely, and recognize fully that I am responsible for the actions I took while we were together--especially the hurtful ones. We started counseling (after years of me asking him to go) last fall. I was working very hard at learning how to communicate effectively in our relationship, but it seemed as if there was no room for me to make a mistake and he didn't really seem very committed, even though he went every week. When we got home--the communication stopped. In July, he asked me to move to my mom's for a while so that he could figure things out. He says that he married me for all of the wrong reasons and that he was never really happy with me, which I have a hard time believing. In August, I was at our house (not my mom's) working on some bills and stuff that I needed to take care of. I stumbled across some receipts from a date he went on that weekend with another woman (since I moved out--we have only seen each other at counseling and 1 date a week and we talked for about 15 min. a day on a good day). I confronted him immediately and he said they were just friends--later I found out it was more. Prior to me finding out about the date and ultimately the emotional and sexual affair he has been having since last November, I was told that I wasn't meeting his sexual needs, and was too reactive and verbally abusive when we would fight. Now I have recognized my faults and have been working very hard through biofeedback and individual counseling to change--and feel very comfortable saying that I am on the right track. My husband even notices the change. We have continued our marriage counseling through yesterday, but he continues to waffle back and forth between me and his lover, but ultimately staying more interested in his relationship with her. I did not move back home after I found out the truth. They talk for hours a day on top of the exchange they have at work (yes, the do work together). He would spend time with me, and then immediately after I left, he would call her and invite her into our house. I actually walked in on them (just talking) at my house this past weekend. Their entire relationship has been a secret for months, and now that it is out in the open, he says he loves her very much and will not leave her. Actually, he says he has tried to 3 times, but could never separate for more than a day and a half. I understand that he is addicted, just like I read in your web-site, but how long will this last? She cheated on her husband last summer with another man, and divorced him right about the time the relationship between my husband and her started. I left him for good yesterday (following the Plan B approach, because plan A was not working), and made a deposit on an apartment. My heart is totally breaking, I have such a desire to be with him, and not talking with him is killing me. How long will it take before he realizes the addiction to her and gives our marriage the chance it deserves? I gave him your web-site address, and he says he has read some of it. He knows he is addicted to her, but doesn't see how that could be a bad thing because he feels so much good from her. I never thought this would happen, and I am so afraid he will never come back to me. Please help.

I appreciate your help.
happy4u2

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: happy4u2 ]</small>

Welcome to MB. Sorry to see you here. Lets get a few of the basics out of the way. You have read some of the website. Have you read all of the Basic concepts? Have you read Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs?

I might of missed it but how long was your plan A? It seems like you should still be in plan A. It's not something that you want to give up because "it isn't working". I say this because Plans A and B are interdependent. They function together. Plan A is to show the WS what they will be missing. And in essence make them attracted to you again. You are to do no wrong in Plan A. Look at the link in my signature for some pointers.

If Plan A does not bring the WS back with the promise of NC with OP then it is time to implement Plan B. Plan B starts with a letter like the one you might have seen on this site. If you haven't seen one then you can find one in Surviving an Affair. During Plan B there can be no contact with WS None zilch nada. They can communicate with you only through a third party. This is meant to simulate as best as possible what it will be like to really lose you.

Both Plan A and Plan B always need to have a time limit. Dr. Harley has written that the average time for Plan A is 6mo.. However, some go 2-3mo. Then when you go to Plan B set a time limit 9mo. or 18mo. This totally depends on you and how far you are willing to go for your M. We all have our limitations and they are different for everyone.

Plan A sets em' up Plan B knock em' down.

From your post it sounds like you have a problem with Angry Outbursts and your H has a problem with Disrespectful Judgements. Make sure you do not do any more LB's. However, if you are in a properly implemented Plan B and don't plan on trying Plan A anymore then you won't need to worry about this for now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long will it take before he realizes the addiction to her and gives our marriage the chance it deserves? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry there is no good answer for this one. It is pretty safe to say that the A will die. R's that start in deception don't have a chance. I read a statistic on Marriagecentral.com that said only 1-3% of A's make it to a long lasting M. Basically they are doomed from the start. 47% of all M's end up in divorce and that goes up to 60%-80% when they are on their 2nd M. If you look at it this way there is a great chance that their A will eventually die a natural death. The only problem is that you can do very little to help it along to it's demise.

My suggestion to you is to do lots of work on yourself. As you become a better person and start to feel better about yourself your WH will ony continue to feel worse about his immoral choices. The social pressures and family dissapproval will start to creep in and ruin the excitement of the A. All A's are basically the same and largely cause the same reactions in their participants and victims. As you read on in this forum you will begin to realize this and start to know what is going to happen before it happens. Knowledge is Power. You need to Lock and Load. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Have you exposed at his work? If work is enabling the A then it is a good idea to expose there. An expert will probably be by soon and let you in on the best way to do this. There are good ways and bad ways so get smart.

Take care of yourself and remember that we are always here for you when you need to vent or ask a question.

C.

<small>[ October 06, 2004, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Thank you for your advice. I have read all of the Basic Concepts, surviving an affair, and His Needs/ Her Needs. I am totally aware that I have been withdrawing from the love bank, but was working on putting in deposits.

We have had a few arguments since I moved out 21/2 months ago--which I guess is when plan A started. In fact my WS even said he sees a change and that is part of why he was vascillating back and forth between me and the OP. I am not sure if I believe him though. We have continued counseling, and our therapist said on Tues. that we really didn't need to continue together at this point, yet she is still seeing him individually. I am not sure if that is the right thing to do.
When I walked in on him and the OP last weekend is was 2:45am. She had just arrived and was pulling her vehicle into the garage. They said that they were just meeting to talk--but at 2:45 am. I introduced myself and actually thanked her for being his friend (and I am grateful for that)and at no time did I yell or lose my cool. I've been pretty good about that.
He asked her to leave and she was actually very submissive about it. We talked all night long and had a very close intimate moment the next morning. That afternoon, we separated our cell phone account (per his request) and I went along with it. During our talk that night, he told me he was in love with her and tried to leave her, but couldn't. Yet he keeps telling me he is afraid of losing the best thing that ever happened to him (referring to me). He knows I have always been very supportive of him. He also said that at this point he can not have NC with the OP, nor does he want to. (Their relationship has been ongoing for about a year and exposed for 6 weeks)

Soo at counseling on Tuesday, I told him all of my feelings and that I could't be with him if he couldn't commit to me completely. Its too painful to know tha the runs to her after he sees and/or talks to me. The therapist agreed and said that I should completely separate and have no contact. She said at this point he is not willing to commit to our marriage and may never. She said there is a chance he will come back and a chance he won't and I need to live my life for myself. I know this is true--but it is easier said then done, especially because I love him so much. We were separating our finances which isn't an easy subject. He offered to help me move, which I politely considered and the las thing I said to him was I Love You.

As far as exposing him at work...the last thing I want is to ruin his career. He was very upset with me when I told his family. He is very proud of what he has accomplished at work. Are you sure exposing their relationship is the right thing to do?

Thank you for your advice. I have read all of the Basic Concepts, surviving an affair, and His Needs/ Her Needs. I am totally aware that I have been withdrawing from the love bank, but was working on putting in deposits.

We have had a few arguments since I moved out 21/2 months ago--which I guess is when plan A started. In fact my WS even said he sees a change and that is part of why he was vascillating back and forth between me and the OP. I am not sure if I believe him though. We have continued counseling, and our therapist said on Tues. that we really didn't need to continue together at this point, yet she is still seeing him individually. I am not sure if that is the right thing to do.
When I walked in on him and the OP last weekend is was 2:45am. She had just arrived and was pulling her vehicle into the garage. They said that they were just meeting to talk--but at 2:45 am. I introduced myself and actually thanked her for being his friend (and I am grateful for that)and at no time did I yell or lose my cool. I've been pretty good about that.
He asked her to leave and she was actually very submissive about it. We talked all night long and had a very close intimate moment the next morning. That afternoon, we separated our cell phone account (per his request) and I went along with it. During our talk that night, he told me he was in love with her and tried to leave her, but couldn't. Yet he keeps telling me he is afraid of losing the best thing that ever happened to him (referring to me). He knows I have always been very supportive of him. He also said that at this point he can not have NC with the OP, nor does he want to. (Their relationship has been ongoing for about a year and exposed for 6 weeks)

Soo at counseling on Tuesday, I told him all of my feelings and that I could't be with him if he couldn't commit to me completely. Its too painful to know tha the runs to her after he sees and/or talks to me. The therapist agreed and said that I should completely separate and have no contact. She said at this point he is not willing to commit to our marriage and may never. She said there is a chance he will come back and a chance he won't and I need to live my life for myself. I know this is true--but it is easier said then done, especially because I love him so much. We were separating our finances which isn't an easy subject. He offered to help me move, which I politely considered and the las thing I said to him was I Love You.

As far as exposing him at work...the last thing I want is to ruin his career. He was very upset with me when I told his family. He is very proud of what he has accomplished at work. Are you sure exposing their relationship is the right thing to do?

Welcome to MB. You came to the right place for good advice and support. I can give some advice from my own experience which is very similar to yours.

First thing, you should never have left the house. Is it too late to move back? Do you both own the house? Why should you be displaced because he is having an A? This was the single biggest mistake that I made was leaving the house.

Second thing, you need to remember that nothing that comes out of his mouth should be taken to heart. He will try to completely rewrite your relationship history to justify his actions. He will say things that hurt like hell. He will say things that make absolutley no sense. He is in a 'fog' becuase of the A and most of his talk will be what is referred to as 'fog babble' It must be ignored for you to survive this.

You will need to stop the LB's. No more angry outbursts etc. No more I love you's either. You need to be plan A'ing your butt off right now. I think it sounds too soon to be going to plan B for you.

As much as it will upset your WH I think exposing the A is a good idea too. It sounds to me like you are inadvertently doing way too much to enable his A.

You have to remember that no matter what problems you were having in your M it doesn't justify your WH actions now. You don't deserve this and you are not at fault. You need to be strong and keep coming here for support.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you sure exposing their relationship is the right thing to do? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as exposing him at work...the last thing I want is to ruin his career. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is ruining his own career by having an A in the workplace.

Don't just take my word for it lurk around this board and see what others have done. But I can tell you what you will see is that exposure is the way. There is no reason that WS and OW should get to have this A without all the pressures that go with it. Basically you are protecting your WH from his own bad decisions. Stop protecting him he is a big boy and is obviously quite capable of some very poor decisions.

Try calling out WAT or Orchid in your title subject for this post. They are experts and will explain this much better than I can. To do this just go to the edit icon on our first post and edit the subject that is displayed. Keep posting and take care.

C.

Thank you--It is funny how similar all of the situations are. Well--I moved out because my mom lives in the local area, and he cried to me that he needed space. I asked multiple times to move back home, and he kept telling me that if I did, our marriage would be over--so I stayed at my mom's. Well I am almost 30 and can't stand living at home, so under the advice of our marriage counselor, I got an apartment yesterday. I don't move in for about a month. I really don't think moving home could happen now. Our marriage counselor also said for me to stop talking with him. I asked him to stop calling me because everytime I talked to him it was so painful to know he was running to her afterward. How do I go backwards now? I want to do the right thing. As far as his job goes--I do know his boss, but they are friends. Her ex-husband still works there with them as well. I somewhat think that people might already know, but I have never been to his place of work--now I know why. I have met his boss at the very few office parties I have gone to. I really think that exposing them at work will make him very very angry and he will turn around and take it out on me. It almost seems like a vindictive thing to do.
I really don't want to be like that. I don't know.
THanks again.

I moved out because my mom lives in the local area, and he cried to me that he needed space. I asked multiple times to move back home, and he kept telling me that if I did, our marriage would be over

The EXACT same thing happened with me. It's a bunch of crap. The guilt of having you there while screwing someone else is why he wanted you out. I don't know exactly what the situation is with your residence, but if you own the house I would move back in today and tell him to leave if he needs space. Don't let him call the shots and disrupt your life, he is the one having the A. Looking back for me, my whole situation right now would probably be different for the better if I had never willingly left the house.

Hello happy,

I am not Orchid but wanted to try and help you too if that's ok?

First of all,you didn't answer the question about the house: is it jointly owned? If so,move right back in.It doesn't matter what your WH says about the marriage being over.It's a scare tactic and a move that could be financially hurtful to YOU.Your WH also might just want some free space to continue on in his A having the OW over.Is that what you want? Protect yourself financially if the house is partly yours.He's cheating,he needs to go.

Secondly,exposure to ALL is a must.It hurts the WS and makes them mad but it is essential to helping shed the light of day on the two of them and their little fantasy.Tell your family,his family,his friends and if they work together,we can help you devise a plan for exposure at work.

Next,realize that all the ridiculous babble about not ever loving you or being happy with you,etc etc is all about him rewriting history to justify his A.Nothing more.Yes,things between you both could have been better but no relationship is perfect and does not allow people the excuse to cheat.Adultery is NEVER the answer to anything,ever!

Your WH is addicted to thi ow like a person can be to a drug like crack.You can hear it in their statements.They want the FEELING not necessarily the person.Whoever can give it to them is the person they revolve around.And as most of us here know,that person is usualy an adulterer themselves,or a predator or a user looking out for their best interests.Don't forget that.In this day and age,having a Wedding ring on and being told that "I'm married" SHOULD still mean something to people but it doesn't all the time.People will TAKE what they want at the expense of whoever is in their way.Entitlement.Families and friends betrayed for that HIGH.

You need to take a breath here and get into the plans again.Plan B is too soon at this juncture.You need to be Plan A'ing right now.You are in a fight for your marriage and family.Know what you are doing ok? Follow the plans and let us help you.

I have to go for now.I hope other's(Orchid) will chime in here too.

O

h4u2,

Welcome to MB. You have been getting good support (Shmaley, Parkem & Oct G) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Glad you read the MB info. Now I recommend you also see if you can do some phone counseling with Steve H @ MB. Even if it is just you for now, it w/b worth all those $$$.

As for your therapist, I think she is not the best. From what you described, she is not marriage prone but just wants a quick resolution. You don't know her agenda and from what I read, I don't actually trust her advice. JMHO, though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now about you moving back to your home..... The WS s/b the one to move out. Never mind that it is more convenient for him. He does not deserve the family home. He has been very disrespectful by bringing a strange OW to your home. That's right she is strange. Only a person with no morals would consider stepping into another woman's home with a MM. Consider the fact that she may also have a crimminal record of sorts and is NOT t/b trusted. No sirrrreeee...

Now he can shell out the bucks to move out. Even if he has to sleep in his car or on a park bench, that's the result of his choices. You can't enable the A by moving out at your inconvenience.

Lastly, use this board to vent as needed, learn your true boundaries, work on implementing them, secure your financial assests and count on the fact that the OW will want more than your H. She may want your title, your possessions, etc.

Never assume and don't trust anything spewing from his mouth. The A has been going on for a while. He already hates what you say and do even if it is good, so the exposure threats of his should NOT scare you. Let him know that he has already been disrespectful and you are protecting yourself. Also let him know that his actions are scaring you and once he gets out of the house, if he continues to threaten you, you may need an RO against both of them.

Do a background check on the OW ASAP. Do let those at his work know. If his job was that fragile, he should have known that before he started the A. Don't let him use that as an excuse. Again, secure your finanaces so he can't use that as much against you.

Expect him to get even angier and uglier. That fog is thick and really scrambles the best of brains. Be glad you are still sane.

Pray for a clear mind, a calm heart and lots of patience.

take care,
L.

Where R U?

C.

***I doubt its value in my case because the most fundamental explanation for plan B as a marriage-saving measure is this: it cuts your WS off from having her needs met by you, and suddenly she realizes how much she is going to be missing. My WW, having avoided contact with me so completely, already knows what it's like to not have me around. Does she miss me? Dunno.***

It's one thing when SHE is the one who cuts YOU off. Sure, she is gone, but she still thinks of you as being there for her as a safety net any old time SHE decides she wants you.

But it's a very different thing when YOU cut HER off by doing Plan B. No more safety net. Now she's completely on her own with nobody to rely on but OM. Now things are very, very different in her world.

Edited to add: Sorry - I answered the wrong post. I was not signed in when I chose to respond and hit the wrong post. Again, I'm sorry - Mulan lost it a long time ago.

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Mulan ]</small>