Yup, just got a letter cc'd to me from her lawyer to mine. It says something about the present situation not being conducive to a shared custody arrangement. In it were some examples regarding the negative effects to wit: son missing a hockey practice because I didn't call her to get the schedule info.

It goes on to say that if the present situation is not changed, the separation agreement may have to be "revisited".

I won't be contacting my lawyer regarding this. Why would I? This is hardly saber rattling; it's hardly even paper rustling. They can throw their litigious tantrum, but unless I'm forced to address it I'm going to go even darker if I can.

Or..........

You can have your lawyer respond to wit:

"Absolutely, the current situation is extremely harmful to the innocent children. Mr. Binder agrees wholeheartedly that the present situation is not conducive to any healthy family situation and he has been ready to eliminate all the negative effects on the children. He stands by his previous correspondence dated (date), copy attached, and is looking forward to restoring the marital environment for the best of all concerned."

Just attach a copy of your Plan B letter.

Dorks.

WAT

<small>[ October 06, 2004, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

he he he he...

WAT, that's excellent.

-ol' 2long

I so agree with WAT!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wonder what possible response they could come up with to that??? LOL

Blessings,
Atruheart

lawyers!!! hmmmmmph! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Brilliant!

Binder, looks like your wife is getting uncomfortable. Stay real dark. I do like WAT's answer. Maybe you should do that.

Ya know WAT I may do just that.

I wish I didn't have such fat clumsy fingers, I'd type a copy of the letter here. It's a beaut.

That would shut her up, but piss her off.

:sarcasm: You don't understand, Binder. The marriage is over. The best thing for the children is for you two to work together in a constructive manner so that the marriage breakup has minimal effect and there can be smooth family functioning. It's better for children to live in separate households than to live in a single, unhappy household. What about that don't you undertsand? /:sarcasm:

But, you would be on the moral high ground all the way - contributing to your recovery if your primary goal isn't achieved.

WAT

WAT's idea ROCKS!!!

Pep

I can't find a thing wrong with it.

It only takes one to divorce, but it takes two to make it easy for a WS.

GC

GC:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It only takes one to divorce, but it takes two to make it easy for a WS.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stuff like that is going to make you famous on this board.

She is beginning to make this adversarial. She tries to make parenting arrangements through my son, she tells MIL that she was thinking of reconciliation several times, but it’s my unwillingness to communicate with her that shows my “cold” and “angry” disposition which prevents her from doing so. My MIL has also referred to the letter from the lawyer and suggested that WW will begin to make this “very expensive” for me if things do not change.

The other day she told my son that she would pick him up this AM for lunch and a movie, thing is she didn’t go through me. I didn’t get an Email from my buddy or a call. I ignored it and did some shopping for winter clothes with the kids. I didn’t answer her calls. I never do. So that’s another strike against me I guess.

I did call my friend when we arrived home in the early afternoon and had him try and mediate an arrangement as well as point out that the children are not to be used for the communication between us. So she showed up in a foul mood to get my son. I know she will use these instances to justify her reasons for the divorce. The OM she spent the weekend with as per usual has nothing to do with this. I also know she is spending time with his children now.

I have an appt. to see my lawyer on Wed. I don’t plan on agreeing to end my Plan B, but I’m not sure what to do. WAT’s reply is an option, but then what. I know text messaging is not pure MB principals, but what’s happening now is not an environment I want to slog through day in and day out. I don’t know if that will satisfy them, but I won’t give up any more. If anyone has Plan B experience to lend me it would be greatly appreciated.

Oh Yeah, fired up the Ol' HP scanner and copied the letter...here it is:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Could I please have a reply to my letter of September 25, 2004

As a further matter, I can advise that the parenting arrangement agreed to pursuant to the Minutes of Sett1ement is in some jeopardy. This arises solely out of the fact that your client absolutely refuses to speak to WW directly and insists that she communicate with him by Email and through a third party. She is not allowed to speak to him; he simply hangs up. Parents who have a. joint parenting regime need to be in fairly close contact with each other regarding the needs of the children and certainly must be able to communicate with each other in a fairly expeditious fashion if the need arises. Further, the physical time that each party has with the children pursuant to the Agreement in this matter is fairly flexible and this also requires direct communication.

I will not set out all of the incidents which have occurred between the parties in relation to matters of communication and will recite only a few as follows:

On a recent Saturday, the parties son was to be at a hockey game however your client did not know where to take his son and rather than calling WW to find out he instead decided that S would miss his hockey game;

Son recently had difficulties in school regarding behavior issues. WW tried to call your c1ient in order to have a discussion with him about how to deal with this problem. Ms. Bowers telephoned your client and advised him that they had to talk about this issue and your client replied by stating "you know how to contact me” and then hung up. Your client's reference was to the cumbersome email process that he bas set up;

In the last few days S was ill and when WW attempted to talk to your client about the illness and S medication, your client refused to speak to her. A few weeks ago, D had an accident at your client’s home which caused injury to her tooth requiring attendance at the emergency department. Your client chose to communicate this incident to WW through her mother rather than calling WW, who called WW several hours after this incident occurred.

. This shared parenting arrangement is not workable without your client’s cooperation. Your client's insistence that he will not speak to WW makes this joint parenting regime impossible. It would appear that your client has significant difficulty in communicating with WW. My client suggests that the parties attend post-separation counseling to deal with this issue. Failing significant improvement in relation to these issues, surely you can foresee a review of the current agreement

Yours truly

WW’s lawyer


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Be careful Binder.

I know you want to save your marriage, but if that fails you will be forced into some kind of custody arrangement. And joint custody will not be granted if the parents clearly can't communicate on the well being & daily activities of the children. If you are going to go for full physical custody and are sure you can get it that is one thing, but unlikely. If you are going to go for joint custody than there has to be a proven history of being able to get along with the other parent involving the children, such as school happenings, homework assignments, sports activities, etc. All of which entail considerable communication and agreement by the two parents.

I know this through experience because I have true joint legal/physical custody of my daughter with her dad. I was able to avoid lengthy and costly court proceedings because her dad and I had a workable, friendly co-parenting history. Otherwise I would have been forced to fight for custody to avoid him getting physical custody and me visitation, and he would have had to do the same.

Might want to modify you Plan B to include conversations with her regarding the children, but nothing more.

I appreciate the benefit of your experience Weaver. "Minutes of settlement" is simply a fancy term for separation agreement. It is what the divorce settlement will mimic, essentially a carbon copy of it. I don't expect any huge changes from the status quo.

My belief is you're either in Plan B or not...I'm not big on middle ground...sorta like almost pregnant My concern is what she regards as a "necessary" issue to initiate discussion. Mark my words, she will use the children's issues and access to initiate confrontation if it suits her purposes and she's very good at confrontation. Should have been a lawyer that girl.

Okay, understood <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Binder:

Are you in counseling or coaching 2 support your plan B?

If not, why the hell not? The MB 4ums are helpful, but they aren't ammunition against WS' lawyers.

And, if you're not, I strongly suggest you talk 2 Penny Tupy about coaching. Her organization is perhaps the ONLY one that offers professional intermediaries during "protection phase" (=plan B). I bet they can give you excellent advice in how best 2 deal with this lack of communication perception on the part of the lawyer.

I don't think you want the WW's lawyer 2 BELIEVE that you're not being cooperative just 2 piss off the WW. I do think you want them 2 believe you are fighting for your M, and that sending them a letter like WAT suggested might be a reasonable idea.

Remember, though, that one of the potential outcomes of plan B IS divorce. And if it ends up that way, it is certainly in your kids' best interest that you and your STBXW can coparent civilly.

best,
-ol' 2long

Ok, I just have to say one thing. My understanding has always been that within plan B contact is still possible as it relates to the kids. The type of contact you want to avoid is any talk about you, your WS, the OP,idle chat about your daily activities, that sort of stuff. But contact in regards to the kids is essential.
The boundary I had with my WH was this - "only call me if it is regarding the children." That way, if he called my cell phone I knew it had to be in regards to the kids. If he had tried to call about anything else I would have simply said "I am sorry, I need to limit our conversations to only talking about the kids"

I can't help but wonder if you are coming across as stubborn, unbending, anable to communicate. I believe you want to look like someone that would be fun to come home to.

I also agree with the above statement - plan B could lead to plan D - and then what? How will you co-parent these wonderful children?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Wouldnt it just be easier to keep a small carers' notebook in your child's schoolbag in which you can both write any information relevant to the child...dates of games, medicine given etc? This can be in the form of an appointments diary in which future dates are annotated in one colour, and notes relevant to the time that that child is in the parents care annotated in another.

Easy way of sharing info in a totally non personal way ! (Cant you just tell that I do flylady? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

<small>[ October 18, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

OK...kids are in bed, had supper, and a good time sledding with them prior.....that’s right, snow sledding. It's still coming down.


2Long queried:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you in counseling or coaching 2 support your plan B? If not, why the hell not? The MB 4ums are helpful, but they aren't ammunition against WS' lawyers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, you don't have to yell. I'm not but I have access to counseling paid for by the agency I work for. Then again, our staff psychologist is the one that suggested the "constructive separation” to snap WW out of her EA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I have a whole lot of sounselling options available locally that I really should look into. I have also looked at Penny's site and may call her. Thank you for the suggestion.


Womenoffaith5 said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ok, I just have to say one thing. My understanding has always been that within plan B contact is still possible as it relates to the kids. The type of contact you want to avoid is any talk about you, your WS, the OP,idle chat about your daily activities, that sort of stuff. But contact in regards to the kids is essential. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Definitions of plan B seem to be like cousins in Saskatchewan...everybody's got one. Ok..local joke.

I'm just trying to mimic what is suggested by Harley in SAA. Communication went through a third party in the example there. It also seems to be the suggested route in Penny Tupy's program as I understand it.


Debbra said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wouldnt it just be easier to keep a small carers' notebook in your child's schoolbag in which you can both write any information relevant to the child...dates of games, medicine given etc? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The parenting during separation course as suggested in the lawyers letter is actually mandatory here prior to a divorce being finalized. I may take it now to assuage their concerns. I believe the notebook is one of the suggested solutions for any communication issues. I may go for that.

The book as suggested by Debbra, plus text messaging may be my compromise….and WAT’s suggestion.

So I went to see the lawyer last night at her request. She was actually pretty good about the whole thing asking why the no contact. I told her it was to heal and was the right thing for me to do. She went through each point and asked what sort of plan I had for contact regarding the children. I explained what I had in place and the options that WW had to contact me. The lawyer didn&#8217;t seem to have an issue with the system and agreed any negative effects on the children are either preexisting issues or a result of the separation as opposed to my Plan B. She agreed that the children require a dad in as good a mental and emotional state as the circumstances allow and if this is what I have to do...so be it. She will be sending a &#8220;short and sharp&#8221; reply to the letter without resorting to offering the compromises yet. I decided to keep WAT&#8217;s suggestion in my back pocket along with the text message/notebook suggestion. I may give those up if necessary at a latter date as I&#8217;m not about to make this an issue to be addressed by the courts.

MIL thinks I need to speak with WW regarding the children. She feels without that connection WW will definitely file a D. I disagree, and told her with the contact, it&#8217;s just that much easier for her to split the family with less trouble. I told her that WW would simply be a cake eater and have no real concept her life without me. MIL also stated that WW told her that she liked it when I said hello to WW when she dropped off the children. I&#8217;ve been at this too long to read much hope into that.

Prior to WW receiving the letter, I will be sending a message to WW. I have to ask her for some extra time with my son for a fast approaching moose hunting trip into the northern part of this province. I will also ask her to stop approaching the door to my house when dropping off the children. My son has no problem walking to the door on his own. I&#8217;m going even darker.