Hi everyone,

I'm fairly new to MB, and have a few questions. Quick summary: Spouse left for lover in July. Technically he lives w/ his mother, but he also spends lots of nights w/ her. They work together so go on "business trips" and sometimes w/ her son. She and her husband were friends of ours and live 2 houses up on the same street as us. Her husband has moved out of the house. I am still in our house. We were married 6 years and together total of 11. I realize we had problems in our marriage and that I was not meeting all of his needs, nor he mine, but I didn't realize he was looking to have an affair. We had a great relationship until about a year and a half ago. He denies an affair, and hasn't even told people at work. I'm not sure what he has told his family. Anyway, I still want to try to save our marriage, and someone was nice enough to tell me to look at using Plan A/Plan B. After reading, it looks like most applies to couples where the spouse is torn between spouse/lover. My spouse told me he was through w/ me, didn't want to waste more time, etc. We could both be happy again. So, how do I apply Plan A to this situation? I don't have separation agreement papers yet, but he has come in to get clothes, incidentals, and wants to continue doing this, so he seems intent on moving out and moving on. And, is it even possible to save a marriage like this? Your help is greatly appreciated, as I really want to have a second chance.

Thanks in advance!

Your WS is behaving just like other WS do when they are having an A. Try not to be hurt by the things that he says they are just fog babble. Plan A is very doable when he is out of the house I am a testament to that. And yes your M is savable. No promises here but you situation doesn't really sound like anything out of the ordinary yet.

I would like to write a long post to you because your situation is similar to mine but I have to run for work (sorry). If an expert doesn't come by soon I will try to post back this afternoon or tonight. Meanwhile read this WHOLE website and order SAA and HNHN if you haven't already read them. And remember we know what you are going through and we are here for you when you need us.

Take care,

C.

You are definately in the right place and there are a lot of people who can help you. The first thing you need to do is expose the A to his family and work. This is the quickest ways to end the affair. Then start reading up on Plan A. Keep posting with any questions you have and people will be there to help you.

Schmaley and Kloe72 - THANK YOU for responding. I was beginning to get at my wit's end and give up when a friend told me about this website. It is just difficult to see sometimes though how to apply some of this stuff since he is not telling me that he is torn between the A and me, but that he doesn't want me at all, ever again. Anyway, I will read more of this website. I actually do have HNHN, but what is SAA? Also, have you read or used The Wayward Husband? Someone said to try this. And Schmaley, I would really love to hear from you since our situations are apparently so similar. I am so sorry that you had/have to go through this, and hope that things are better for you.

Thanks again for everything.

Kloe72 - I saw your note about exposing the affair to his family and work. I believe his family have to know, as she has met them and been to dinner and watched a movie at his mother's house. Even if he is just calling her "a friend", anyone in their right mind would at least think that something was going on. I was not very close to his mother and sister, so they may be glad to be rid of me. As for work, they have not even told people that the OW and her husband are separated, and she was sharing my WH's office, due to "space limitations", so I'm not sure what people there think. They do know we are separated, and WH talks of how hard it is to start the dating thing again. Unbelievable. However, OW has apparently said that WH would leave the company for her if it came to that, they are so much in love. They know WH would be fired if A exposed. And wouldn't this just push him further into her arms and away from me? He is thoroughly besotted and says he loves her. A has had affairs before, w/ men and women, and her husband seems to think that my WH knows about this and doesn't care, as he would consider that the past, and that he is "different". So, w/ someone so obsessed, I'm at a loss. How do you know if they truly are in love and that there truly is nothing left of the marriage?

Thanks for your help!

The more of the threads you read here, the more all affairs look alike. Many are absolutely cookie-cutter, in fact many people who have been involved in affairs, and think theirs are soooo special, are remarkably shocked when they come here for help, and see how patently ordinary most affairs are.

SAA is Surviving an Affair, written by Willard Harley, also founder of this website. This book will tell you all about the dynamics of an Affair, how marriages become vulnerable, how to expose them and how to survive them. It is a must read for anyone who suspects their partner is involved.

All of this is doable, but YOU are the one who will have to do the heavy lifting. YOU are also the one who will have to do some things that are difficult, but not impossible, achievable, but contrary to you instincts. Exposure is one of those things.

We refer to people who are involved in affairs as people living in a FOG, or as people whose minds have been abducted by aliens, because they act so irrationally, but seem so comfortable with it.

Read about Marriage Builders beginning at the home page, and purchase SAA, now that you know what it is. Check with your Dr. about getting on an AntiDepressant, as this is all a very emotional process, and the AD's will help you stay more stable in the journey.

Don't panic, and don't get in a hurry. This is going to take more strength than you know you have, and a lot of time, patience and care.

But its possible to save your marriage by following the plan spelled out in SAA. And post here often, there's lots of caring people and a wealth of support!

Good luck,
SD

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My spouse told me he was through w/ me, didn't want to waste more time, etc. We could both be happy again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This my dear is fog babble. You can study up on it and how to reverse babbble here. He might have also said that your whole marriage was a big mistake, he never really loved you, we're totally incompatible, blah blah blah bork bork bork... This fog is so powerful that poor WS's are left with barely enough brain capacity to justify their silly A's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is just difficult to see sometimes though how to apply some of this stuff since he is not telling me that he is torn between the A and me, but that he doesn't want me at all, ever again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WW has said very similar things. She has never said that she is trying to choose between us. So same difference here. What you really need to read is SAA. HNHN is good for applying to a marriage that is reconciling or somewhat healthy. Yours is neither right now. Your WH is not interested in you filling any of his EN's right now. So don't worry too much about applying that stuff save it for your H. SAA will show you various situations in which Plan A has been implemented. In the first story the BS and WW are not living together. Sound familiar? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have been counseling with Jennifer C. through this website. She is very good with all these principals as she has co written some of them with Dr. Harley her father. I would recommend that you set up some IC with her some time soon. Try to be prepared by reading up on this website and knowing your concepts. She will hit on these a bunch and it will help if you are very familiar with them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They know WH would be fired if A exposed. And wouldn't this just push him further into her arms and away from me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an exposure that will have to happen. There are good ways to do this and bad ways. I would recommend that you study up on the good ways. You can do that through the counseling with Jennifer C / Dr. Harley or by lurking around this forum. Look for others that have had to do the same and how they did it. I have not had to do this yet so I can't really offer you anymore advice than that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you know if they truly are in love and that there truly is nothing left of the marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your sounding a little fogged here do not believe it. WH will say what ever will keep him in the A. He is searching for ways to enable it verbaly. This is a result of cognitive dissonance. When the actions of an individual don't really match their beliefs they search for ways to rationalize what they are doing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WH talks of how hard it is to start the dating thing again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't help it. What a dork. lol sorry. Your WH really needs a 2x4 right upside the head along with my WW. Married people DO NOT DATE. I saw a post once that explained this very well went something like this:

Married = Married
Separated = Married
Divorcing = Married
Divorced = Divorced

When your not Divorced it's called Adultry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well it's past my bed time. Keeps posting and take care of yourself. Start up a new hobby or exercise. That's what I do, lots of exercise.

C.

Shmaley and Shattered Dreams - Thanks for your replies. They help more than you know. I just heard from him on his way back from his trip to Chicago w/ her. He was checking on my car, since I had trouble w/ it. Said papers should have been ready by now, so he will have to call attorney - just like this should be nothing special to me. His birthday is tomorrow, but I couldn't bring myself to wish him a happy one. My friend thinks I should at least send him a card, or take him to lunch. Lunch is too much right now, but maybe I'll send him a silly card. He seems to be cutting back on the communication, as he said he doesn't have time to come by and get more stuff out of the house this weekend, so will call me sometime next week about the papers. It just seems he is disassociating himself from me more and more. I used to hear from him 2-3 times/week. And he got upset w/ me whenever I didn't keep communication going strong in the beginning. Anyway, I'll look for the SAA and see what's inside. It just seems impossible to know where to begin at this point.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I hope that soon I will be able to get down to just doing 1- or 2-line posts.

Have a great weekend!