Hey all,
Update WW is still proceeding with seperation. I will see attorny today. We are in both agreement to have it amicable with joint custody of kids. We have pretty much divided our assets and expenses pretty evenly. What is confusing is WW is very pleasant with me hugging me, even kiss and i will always love u this morning. States yesterday, that she been feeling lost over last 3years and feels she needs this to find herself. Probably fog talk. I told her yesterday to please do not get so deep into this relationship with OM that you lose what you are intentionally seperating for to figure yourself out. WW states that she wouldn't and wasn't planning on taking relationship with other man to fulltime yet. This i have to wonder about. She not give OM up and i know once she leaves here Om will be in her life at least every other weeks. OM cannot be present in apt. when my Kids are spending their week with WW of course ww will probably meet him for dinners and in park etc. with kids.
I don't know i see my WW really at times not wanting to go through with this and is scared but when ever i suggest if maybe we should rethink this she goes back to i think we need to do this. Tired of trying to convince her she will not budge on changing her mind. I hope and pray once OM is in full time with her and not in secret anymore that it will fissle out.
What are the chances of that happening? Could it just get worse and they become inseperable? I feel the more she has Sexual intimacy with OM the more she will lose any flame she has left for me. Anyone want to give a opinion. I feel my WW is very lost and confused and i am hoping praying that this will guide her back to me. I have to maintain contact with her for the kids sake. I hope she just doesn't cake eat on this.
jets

Hi jets,

You know,having the relationship with OM go full force may be what is needed to pull her out of her fog bank.When these WS's just putter around in fantasy based meetings without real life staring them in the face,it could go on for a long time.Like my WH and the homewrecker.They haven't had to live with each other and have yet to feel the full effects of a divorce on them.That's coming though.The true test will be when they are together and have no more contact with me,little with my children and nothing but their cheating selfish selves to wonder about.

But for your WW and the OM,they will have to start thinking about how to plan it all and that gets old real fast.That's reality.Not these brief meetings here and there.And,your WW will really have to take inventory on her life and what she is going to do next.Lots of introspection in her future.The excitement of forbidden sexual fantasies will also wane.Once she knows and he knows that you are letting them go at it and trying to take care of yourself,they have to face each other and what they have done.Reality will also be knocking on their door there.EVERY relationship waxes and wanes,theirs will too.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to let them go and do what they feel they need to.You can't control them and as misguided as they are,they have to learn from their mistakes.The choice will be whether or not you'll want to be there for WW if and when she turns her life around.Sometimes that happens after a D.Just keep Plan B in the back of your mind.One day you will have to pull the plug on her if she continues to be involved with the OM or refuses to work on the marriage and that's when things will get interesting.As long as you are in Plan A though,she may very well cake eat.It's when you take the cake away that they start reflecting and getting panicky.All in due time though.

O

Thanks for the reponse octobergirl,
I talked with WW at lunch, told her that i was thinking of her and that i was scared. She stated i know. Told her that i am scared that when she continues to consumate her relationship with OM that the little flame of love that she has left in her heart will be distinquish. All she could say was "I know".
Octobergirl, right now i would take her back in a heartbeat, even through all that she has put me through. Crazy some would say, but I am still in love with her. She unfortunately cannot or does not want to see this. I am also afraid for my self that as time goes on i may just get frustrated and depressed and just give up on trying to fight to win her back.
We both will remain in contact with each pretty regularly, we agreed upon this for our kids sake. If i need to enact plan b in the future it will be difficult d/t kids, their sporting and school events. WW states that she wouldn't object to seeing a movie one night with the kids when all the holiday flicks come out.
I often thought after this gets started for a little bit, that i could do small things for her like send her a thinking of you card to her at work or maybe place a flower in her car at work.
I don't know maybe the non MB way of doing things at this point, but i feel that it would keep me in her thoughts and hopefully her heart so that i maybe have a chance of winning her back. I know everyone thinks i am foolish for even considering her on having her come back but i can't help it i am still in love with her.
I'm trying to convince myself to find things to do for me and to work on me when we seperate,but i know WW will always be in the back of my mind and on my heart.
WW will see as far as i know OM at least everyother week and weekend and probably during the weeks with my kids when they go and meet up for dinner, this she already made me aware of.
Do think this would be full time enough for them to actually face each other and see themselves as they really are?? Would this be enough time together to have them question what they really are doing with their lives and who lives they are affecting?
jets

I also wanted to add something.
WW talked about a coworker at work and how her and her husband where having marital problems a few years ago and they dicided they need to seperate. Stated that coworker and her husband said that was the best thing they could have done for there marriage. I guess they have been together since.
So i know WW is still thinking about us. I think unfortunately she wants to test the water with Om.
jets

Hi again,

First of all,anyone that suggests that separating is the best thing for a marriage isn't speaking through knowledge and understanding.Separating when there is marital problems is probably the worst thing you can do in MOST cases.You cannot solve problems being apart and being apart runs the risk of you becoming further apart in every sense of the word.I suspect that this is a ploy for your WW to feel better about herself and to placate you.As difficult as it may seem,I wouldn't trust your WW with anything she has to say right now.She is under the influence,if you know what I mean.Trust is not something you can afford to have in your WW at this point,not until she earns it back.

I also know how you feel about wanting to take your WW back this instant because you love her.Believe me,we have all gone through this and you are so new in all of this.I can't think of anyone here in all the time I have been here that didn't just want to have a chance to make things better in their marriage.Unfortunately,many of us do not get that chance.We are blindsided by the adultery and then the WS wants to move on or doesn't end contact with the OP.That's what happened to me and I had to make the decision to stop all the pain that I was going through.It was very clear my WH wasn't going to give up the homewrecker so I had to take the wheel and drive my own life.It's not what I ever wanted for me or my children but the alternative was too painful.

I have two kids also and although it is hard,I have managed to do a pretty good Plan B way back when because my WH was working far away.My WH then wanted to come home and work on the marriage but that didn't last long at all.

Dealing with children has been the hardest part for me.I want what is best for them as I am sure you do but I cannot be friendly with my WH.It's too hard for me.We will be loving parents to both our children but we will be parenting separately.I also have the added burden of dealing with a WH that will be working far away again but in a way,that is good for me but bad for the kids.It's a choice just how much you can deal with if and when you D.You are no where near that decision yet.You will need to consider a pLan B if you are not going to be living together.It's hard with kids but it can be done.Until she gives up the OM and decided to make you and the marriage and children her priorities,you may have to cut the ties and take care of yourself and start living without her.

If WW thinks seeing this guy every other weekend is going to be enough,let her try it.I bet it will be hard and things will start to crumble for them.No relationship can effectively survive on that low amount of contact.Something will give.It will either be her or OM or they will start to have to come up with a better plan.What that might be is anyone's guess.

Please don't think you are foolish for loving your WW.It's a true testament to our love for them(WS's) that we endure such pain but are willing to forgive.

Does your WW plan on introducing this OM to your kids? If so,we have more to talk about.

O

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

octobergirl
Unfortuately my kids have already met OM in which WW states to them that this is her friend.
This was done prior to DD. She actually had him in our house for 5 days when i was out of town for a reunion. She now says this was a big mistake she should have never done this. Even found out they had sex 5 nights in row when my kids and his kids where there. Yes he brought his kids over too for those 5days.
My kids think he looks like a old man, he is my age, and i guess think he is just ok.
At times i see WW struggling with her conscious and this decision,but everytime i say I don't know if this the right thing she says that she feels it is.
WW and i i am afraid will always be friendly towards each other, that is just our personalities. Neither one of us do not want to be the couple that seperate and cannot even stand to be around each other at the front door.
so a good plan b is going to be difficult for me.
jets

I hear ya jets but at some point,there has to be some incentive for your WW to break off contact with this OM and you want to be the one there for her right? The alternative here is that you continue in Plan A,while she cake eats and loses respect for you for putting up with her bad behavior indefinitely.

See,even though it may not seem like it,she is watching your reactions now.Seeing how much you will put up with,how much she can push the envelope,etc.If you never take a stand against the poor decisions she is making,then she will never consider you as someone who can be tough about their love for each other.She already,on some level,feels like you let her down which is why,in her mind,she fled to have an A.Plan A'ing for too long can have a negative impact on your marriage and she will start to look at you as a "doormat",someone that she can walk all over and who will not make a stand for himself and his boundaries.

I really understand how hard this is and I understand how you want to maintain a relationship with her due to the children.But right now,you are in a fight for your marriage and family.Allowing this continued bad behavior from her to you sends a clear message about your self worth and also sends a message to your children about what NOT to do in a marriage.Being married does not mean you suck it up everytime your WW hurts you.I am sure you know that already.Talk to other BS guys here,they will tell you the same thing.Their WW's wanted someone to be strong for them and take a stand for their marriage and show them the way back home through truth,understanding and beliefs.

Also,the whole issue about the children really saddens me.It is SO not appropriate for them to be exposed to a man they know nothing about and to have to be made to be friendly with this person that is actively involved in the destruction of your marriage and their family! And that they(WS and OM) were having sex there in the house with them nearby! HELLO!? What kind of a message does that send?? Their mother is STILL married to YOU. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And she now regrets her decision for it? A bit late I think.What a mess.

I think you should have a long heart to heart talk with your sons about this bad behavior your WW is exhibiting.I don't know if you have already talked to them but if not,you really need to.Please don't make the mistake of allowing this to happen and give them the idea that it's ok by standing by and doing nothing.They need to know that what their mother is doing is WRONG and explain why.Not gory details but enough so that they don't start harboring ill feelings about women.They are watching and learning so keep on top of it or they will make assumptions on their own.

What do you think?

O

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Best of luck jets.

Octobergirls comments really hit home, I've been monitoring for the last couple months. I guess I have the "doormat syndrome" Im afraid if I say my peace since she is so stubborn, it may backfire. I definately feel like a doormat, I want to give an ultamatum just to ease the pain. But yes I still do love her. I just dont know how long I can be walked on. I thought all contact with OM was broken I found out OM called her "to see how things were going" after 2 mos (as far as I know)

would love to hear your thoughts O

any thoughts Og

Guys,

Follow Dr.Harleys plan,it's that "simple".Plan A is not designed to be done forever.It has a purpose and time limit and when that fails you move to Plan B.

Most people who are new here think that they are making a huge mistake by not doing this plan longer,or right or exposing the A to everyone or this or that.The truth is though,most of us BS's that have been here a long time already have been through it all and there are literally thousands of us here.Just look at the member numbers.Since I have been here,there have been almost 7,000 more people on this site!

Even Dr.Harley acknowledges that about 2/3rds of marriages hit by adultery do not survive it.It is a devastating problem and it's nearly insurmountable.The best chance at a survival though is when you have two willing spouses who are actively engaged in recovery.You can't do it alone,at least not for long.It's sobering and painful to think about but it's something we all have to face.It was a crushing thought to me when I was early on in my journey.I am dealing with it better though at this point,after a year.

CJ,

Every time your WW contacts the OM or he calls her,it sets you back,that's why precautions must be in place all over to prevent any contact from happening.Don't give ultimatums,they don't work and push the WS away as a defense.You do,however,have the right to tell your WW your feelings but just don't blast her,there's the difference(No LB's).I will try to find your posts and respond so we don't threadjack this one.

O

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

CJ and Oct.
Sorry i didn't reply back to you earlier last night. First i could get on today.
O- I agree with you with the plan B. At this point i feel it will probably naturally occur when she moves out. Contact other than exchanging the kids and updates with them will probably be minimal. I told her last night that i would like to see if we can work out in the future and i haven't close that chapter of my love for her yet. She states she hasn't for me either, but i also told her i am not going to be a doormat nor a safety net if thing do not work out between u and OM. WW stated she understood and didn't expect that. I told her I will not wait forever and even if there is a remote chance we can get back together it will take a tremendous amount of effort and work on her part, as well as mine. Advised her if this happens our marriage will never be the way it used to be. In essence it will be a new different marriage. She verbalized understanding.
CJ i have kind of come to the determination that i must start looking out after myself and what's in the best interest of our kids. I finally realized that i cannot beat my head against the wall to make WW wake up and see what she is doing. She acknowledges that she messed up on a lot of fronts and is sorry for it, but she will not give up OM. I am letting her go because of the old saying if you love something enough set them free. I found more photos of OM this morning on a date that she told me that she was hosting a partylite meeting. This happens to be the same date that she watch my oldest son football game for the first quarter then left for her meeting, well she made a little trip to visit OM at Ocean front before going to this meetng. Pictures indicate this and this was 09/26. At this point i will probably never be able to fully trust her again. I told her about this and my findings. I have come to realization that i must let her go and try to make the best for me and my children. I have trust in her as a mother, but that is as far as it goes. She has apt. and is moving small stuff out next week. I need to have her move prior to end of mo. I cannot take the fact that she is still seeing OM under my nose.
OCT and C- right now i would love to remain with WW, but in time i don't know if i will feel the same way. I have been burnt too many times by her and i am starting to lose my feelings of love that i had left for her.
I will have to remain friendly with her d/t kids and plus in is in neither one of our personalities too be bitter at each other, we never have been this way, but i am afraid when she wakes up from this fog and realizes what she has done with her life and try to reconcile it may be too late for me. I try to tell her this with no Avale. For right now trying to detain a lawyer to fill out seperation papers so WW can move out.
Jets

Hi there,

I just wanted to say a few more things for now.

First,try not to worry too much about your feelings,as crazy as that sounds.You are going through an immense emotional time right now and every day will yield different results.No one has a stop watch going to see when your love will run out.For many of us,it takes a long time for us to start to lose the love for our WS's.For me though,my LB was draining fast so I had to go to a relatively early plan B to protect what was left.And,by that time,it was clear to me that the homewrecker was most likely living with my WH at his apartment and you just cannot effectively do a Plan A when the WS is out and about living their separate life with OP.

In other words,try not to think too far ahead about how you will be feeling.Follow the time frames Dr.Harley mentions regarding the plans.They are not written in stone mind you but I think they are guidelines.Also,you are right that your WW cannot be trusted.No way no how.If and when you both decide to recover,that will be a very important issue that needs to be EARNED back by your WW.I would not consider anything your WW says to be truthful,you can't afford to trust her.

And,trust as a mother in your WW is also something you still need to be cautious of.You think that the WS would not hurt the children,not physically anyway,but a lot of times all they can think about is that high feeling they need and don't always look out for the childrens best interests.Just keep an eye on what is happeneing with them in the care of your WW.I could tell you some stories that have happened here a long time ago but I think you get the idea.

Lastly,no one is suggesting that you have to be bitter enemies if and when you D or even just going to Plan B.Some people want and can get along very well,other's are bitter enemies and there are other's in between.For me,I know in my heart and mind that I cannot be friends with my WH any longer if we D.It will be too painful for me and I am much more calm and comfortable when he isn't around.I want my kids to see me that way,not messed up and crying all the time.

Also,in order for me to have a chance at love again,I have to let the love I have for my WH die and that can't happen if my WH is stepping in and out of my life every other weekend( I honestly dont' know if I will ever stop loving WH,he says he won't ever stop loving me).He needs to be gone and frankly,I don't want to see him anymore.He has chosen where he wants to be,I am letting him go.

Hang in there.You're doing ok.

O

Hey Octobergirl,
Thanks for the response and pep talk. I talked with WW mother today, she is very supportive of me and hates to see this happen. Explain what has been going on with her this past week and her decision to move out. MIL is still a little shock and confused with regards to all this. I asked WW was having a mental issues and when she became aware through WW that we where having problems. She stated in may, when it was annouced to me by WW that she was feeling numb around me, prior DD.
Told mil that i given all that i can give to get her to understand what she is doing but have not been successful. Told her that i am trying to maintain a calm enviro. and just let her go in hopes that she will defog and see this is a place of comfort for her to come to. Mil stated that she will talk to her. Advised good luck but she has made her mind up and there is no changing it.
I admit that my behavior over last year hasn't been good a lot of LB'ing before i came upon MB. But i really didn't feel that this should have led to this and i will only take the blame so far. I didn't have the affair. I didn't actively seek someone on singles chatline, I didn't set the first meeting between WW and OM.
She was actively looking and knew there was a problem but did not make it clear enough to me. WW states that i should have seen it and can't figure out why i didn't. Never had a answer, i am a guy.
Your right though with my emotions, in morning at work i am ok, but then around now i start to get this panic feeling and feel like i am helpless in trying to save this marraige. WW states she feels she needs to do this to get away from the roller coasters of emotions in this house. Emotions where not in roller coaster until May. She keeps to trying to justify this decision because she has been lost over last few years and she needs to find out who she is. I reply fine i can acccept that,so give up relationship with OM and do this. Big fat no on that!! So this tells me the real reason why she is doing this. She states i am stinking thinking and overanalyzing. BS rings in my head when she replies this.
I don't have a lot of trust left in her and don't know if i will ever get it back. Once broken it can never be 100% maybe 99.5% but never 100. Questions will always run through my mind with regards to this.
I get panicky because i feel the more she consumates her relationship with OM. The less she will have of that flicker of love she has left in her heart for me. Or worse by the time she defogs my Flicker of love in my heart will be gone.
She is causing this whole shift and change with our family dynamics. She has thrown all her morals and belief in the trash. She is so not like the person i married 14 years ago. She is a addict i am sorry to say.
Thanks for letting me vent.
jets