I'm relatively new and have posted under a different name a couple of times. I changed it bc I feel so stupid about my previous posts. I just kept going on and on about how great WS was, and I now I just feel sick about it.

WH promised NC immediately upon discovery, but I found out on Saturday (itemized phone bills finally arrived) that he's been in contact with OW since a week after DDay. I feel like such a fool! He has been saying all the right things for two months. I really thought things were going amazingly well.

He says he just called to make sure she was okay and that they were just talking. He is concerned about her R with her BS. He called her and told her that he would never speak to her again and tells me that he REALLY means it this time. He says he loves me, wants to be with me, and will never hurt me again. He says he didn't realize that he was still "cheating" since they were just talking. Is this fog talk?

How can he be so wonderful to me and still be in contact with OW? I am soooo confused. After all the work we've been doing, MC and reading Harley's books, how could he NOT KNOW that what he was doing was wrong? When I confronted him with it, he denied it again and again. I LB'd all over the place that day, but can honestly say that at that moment I felt more betrayed than DDay#1. At that moment I never wanted to see him again.

I hope someone out there can offer me some advise. I am more depressed now than after DDay#1 bc I don't know where to go from here. How can I believe him again? How can I go on trying to be wonderful to him when I don't understand him at all. Has anyone else had the experience that WH said and did all the right things at home but still maintained contact?

Please help me understand.

Welcome to the world of false recoveries. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Don't give up hope though.

My questions:

1) Have done any exposure of the A?
2) Are you guys in any kind of C?
3) What "extraordinary precautions" have you taken to ensure NC?

1) Exposure:
We've both told some friends. WH says OW told her BS, but we both doubt whether she told him EVERYTHING. After this newest development, I told my parents. WH is not close with his parents so hasn't told them.

2) Counseling:
We went to MC right away after DDay#1, but to put it mildly, she stank. So, we only went about 4 times. We felt that we were getting more help from reading Harley's books. We would read together every night after work and discuss. Everything is kind of halted now. Don't know what to do next.

3) Precautions
Maybe this is where we dropped the ball. WH and OW work together. It's at a nightclub, so WH talked to the guy who makes the schedule and requested that they not be scheduled on the same days. He also brought home copies of the schedule so that I could see they weren't working together. Other than that, he told me he would not delete the numbers on the caller ID so I could check. Well, of course he did and lied about it. He was calling me all the time at work, but after seeing the phone bills, I now know that he would hang up the phone with me and immediately dial OW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SJ'sViolet:
<strong> 1) Exposure:
We've both told some friends. WH says OW told her BS, but we both doubt whether she told him EVERYTHING. After this newest development, I told my parents. WH is not close with his parents so hasn't told them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been right exactly where you are before. It was after NC was broken a final time that I called the OP in my case. Albeit very tough sledding for about a month afterwards, this is probably the catalyst that started the end of this nightmare. W actually thanked me the day that I called, BTW.

Like you, I was told the OM had told his W, but it seems like she was pretty surprised and PO-ed to get a call from me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SJ'sViolet:
<strong>2) Counseling:
We went to MC right away after DDay#1, but to put it mildly, she stank. So, we only went about 4 times. We felt that we were getting more help from reading Harley's books. We would read together every night after work and discuss. Everything is kind of halted now. Don't know what to do next.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You gotta find another C. We >>>ALSO<<< got a fruit loop the first go around. The guy we have now is awesome and has helped us a lot.

Make a list of questions and call around. I interviewed about 10 Cs and we really ended up with this guy via dumb luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SJ'sViolet:
<strong>3) Precautions
Maybe this is where we dropped the ball. WH and OW work together. It's at a nightclub, so WH talked to the guy who makes the schedule and requested that they not be scheduled on the same days. He also brought home copies of the schedule so that I could see they weren't working together. Other than that, he told me he would not delete the numbers on the caller ID so I could check. Well, of course he did and lied about it. He was calling me all the time at work, but after seeing the phone bills, I now know that he would hang up the phone with me and immediately dial OW. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I don't know what to say here other than acknowledge what you know now. Hopefully some others here can give some insight. My gut would say that he should quit his job there to ensure NC.

Hi violet,

Your WH knows EXACTLY what he is doing,don't forget that.He is "addicted" and so will find ways to be in touch with this OW by any means possible all the while he denies and lies to you to save face.We see right through him.However,it is a very common slip that these WS's do.NC rarely occurs with the first time.It's just too hard for most of them.I can understand your pain though.I went through 2 false recoveries myself.Ugh.

The first thing that has to happen though IMO is that your WH has to get another job.As long as he works where OW works,the temptations and chance meetings are too much of a threat.I know that is a difficult decision but it is CRUCIAL if you both want to recover.Unless she leaves,WH has to start looking at the want ad's and saying that he just can't or won't is not the answer.The choice is: either give up job and have the best chance at recovery or stay at the job and risk it all.We have seen it time and time again.A WS and an OP cannot work together and not have it affect the marriage.There may be a couple or a few of those that actually do have some kind of understanding here but I wouldn't count my blessings on that choice.

So,you need to talk to your WH about this job,which I am sure he will either resent or refuse and you also have to start all over again with NC.Your WH must know that every time he contacts this OW that he puts you and he back to square one.That has to stop.

O

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

SJ,

Sorry you are going through this. Your H is addicted, and an addict will do anything to get a fix, including lie to a S. That doesn't excuse his behavior, just explains why he continues to lie.

Also, from having been there as a FWW, I can tell you that 2 months after d-day, he still has no clue about how badly he has really hurt you. I don't know why that is, I just remember that it took me a LONG time (over a year, I hate to say)to really understand the full impact of breaking NC, and that my H's feelings were more important than my own, especially so far as NC was concerned.

I agree that your H needs to find a new job. The situation is similar to an alcoholic having to stay away from bars and old drinking buddies.

Withdrawal is the pits (for both S's), and I know it's hard to be patient, but if you believe your H really wants to stay with you, and you really want to stay with him, keep using all your resources to work on the M (MB principles, MC, IC, prayers, pastors, friends).

God bless,

Rose

WH and I have both agreed that he should quit his job. I think it's only a matter of time before that happens. The problem with NC being broken happened because WH made a choice to call. It didn't have anything to do with them seeing each other at work. Even if he quits his job, he can still pick up the phone any time he wants.

We talked briefly about getting another counselor, but just seemed to let the idea go because we were "doing so well on our own." Unfortunately, our finances are not good right now. WH is a full-time student and part-time worker. We're barely making it right now, so counseling is going to be pretty tough on us.

The part I'm having the most difficulty understanding is why he tells me he wants to work things out if he doesn't. It seems to me from reading here that most WS in withdrawal are not very kind to their BS. My WH is being very kind and considerate to me every day. Are you guys trying to tell me that he REALLY does feel the way he says he feels and that it's just the withdrawal that pushed him to keep contact? I realize you don't know my WH, but at this point neither do I.

BTW: Am I Plan A'ing and don't even know it?
<sigh> so confused,
Violet

Violet -

It could be that your H has been in a good mood because he's NOT in withdrawal, because he's not in NC. In effect, he's cake eating - getting needs met by two women. He keeps up contact with OW in order to keep from going through withdrawal.

That doesn't mean he doesn't want to work things out with you, it means he's enjoying having all his needs met. One reason for NC is so that the S has the opportunity to fill all the needs that he/she is capable of or "should" be filling. (Which is not to say that anyone is responsible or able to fill ALL of another person's needs. I just mean the needs that a S can be responsible for.)

Do you have a church where you might be able to counsel for free, possibly with a pastor who agrees with MB principles? You have to be careful picking a counselor, of course, and could still run into one who is inept or doesn't agree with your beliefs. If you don't like one, find another. Would there be free counseling on the campus where your H attends school?

God bless,

Rose

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

Sorry, double post. I hate when that happens!

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

Violet,

First off, you can count on the affair continuing as long as they work in the same place. They can't avoid each other forever, its only a matter of time. He will never ever withdraw from her as long as he works there and continues to see her and be reminded of her every day.

Secondly, you have missed a great opportunity to end this affair by calling her husband. Its unlikely that he even knows. Having the other spouse know is just extra insurance you have against the affair resuming.

And that brings up back to the present situation. This affair has never ended. And it is nonsense that your H didn't consider it an affair to talk to her. Otherwise he wouldn't have hidden it. If they were truly just "friends" then you can ALL be friends and have her over for dinner. But that is not how it is and he knows it.

To sum it up, if you want this affair to end, then you are going to have call the OWH and alert him to this situation. You will then have to insist that your H end contact by finding another job and by sending the OW a no contact letter.

Anything less than that means a future of continued contact and a death of a thousand cuts. Just do it right the first time, Violet, and be firm in your boundaries or you can count on this happening over and over and over again. A death of a thousand cuts............

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SJ'sViolet:
<strong>

We talked briefly about getting another counselor, but just seemed to let the idea go because we were "doing so well on our own."

It seems to me from reading here that most WS in withdrawal are not very kind to their BS. My WH is being very kind and considerate to me every day. Are you guys trying to tell me that he REALLY does feel the way he says he feels and that it's just the withdrawal that pushed him to keep contact? I realize you don't know my WH, but at this point neither do I.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Rose. Your H has never been in withdrawal.

And I don't think you need counseling necessarily, he just needs to end his affair. Have you addressed why he did this so this doesn't happen again?

Rose and Melodylane,
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. You are both so right. It never occurred to me that he hadn't gone through the withdrawal because he was still in contact.

I am going to take your advise and contact OWH. I have thought about it a million times and even composed an email to him which I then deleted. I am going to call him this weekend.

He says now that he knows he was continuing the A, but didn't think of it that way at the time. He wanted to be the guy in the white hat that was making everyone happy. He says that he told her the day before I found out about the phone calls that he couldn't talk to her anymore because he and I had "turned a corner."

WH agrees that he needs to quit the job and last night called and told his manager. He has 2 shifts scheduled this weekend that he has to work if he can't find someone to replace him, but after that he's done. She is not working tonight, but may be tomorrow. He said if she is on for tomorrow, he just won't go.

He seems to be very committed to working on our M. We have been spending alot of quality time together; joined a gym, seeing movies, reading together, talking alot, and even having great SF. I have been doing my best to be kind and considerate. I want him to know that he can count on me and that when he starts to feel bad, he can come to me for comfort.

I'm worried now about what withdrawal will do to us. Since he hasn't had it yet, I have no idea what form it might take. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can help him through the withdrawal? Or is it even possible for me to do that?

Again, thank you so much for your time and advise. It's so wonderful to know that there are people out there who understand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />