Greetings,

Here is a link to my first post on MB, its in the Plan A/Plan B forum:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=002521#000003

I am in desperate need of help. I feel totally lost...

Man, you have a plate full to deal with.

First of all, purchase and read Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. It will educate you about the dynamics of an affair. It will ultimately give you a plan on what you need to do to get through all this.

If I were you, though, I'd do whatever it takes to keep your kids from ever going to WW's house, with what's capable of going on there. Kids come first, no matter what else. This is crap they don't need to see, or be a part of.

You should probably see a DR. and get some Anti-D's to help you through this roller coaster. Read all about Plan A, as that's where you need to start. See if your W is open to Marriage Counseling or Coaching, too, and begin at once. Ideally, she should move back in with you, which would give you a better chance at meeting her EN's.

Others will stop by and give you some pearls of advice I may not have covered. Posting here will help you through all this.

Good luck
SD

Thank you, shattered dreams.

I would love to purchase the book, as well as other material by Dr. Harley, but it will have to wait until I land a job. One place I applied to told me that they would know who they were hiring by Tuesday. Being Mr. Mom kept me from working, and my wife made good money. Unfortunately, her job is where she met the current OM.

About keeping the kids from her house...I am utterly unsure how to do that. I have thought about filing restraining orders against half of her family, and those she hangs out with. They are a bunch of cheating, lying, alchoholics. I don't know if she and them have signed any false statements against me, due to thier own legal issues, which makes me afraid to go anywhere near there to file for custody. She said she may not have the money to come up this weekend, and if she does, I am going to try and convince her to stay at her dad's. He is one of the ONLY cool persons in the whole family, and its her mom's side that has all of the problems, my W's parents haven't been together in many years due to similar situations. I could make some legal threats, but they would be major LB's. Keeping the kids from her house for 6 months will be next to impossible. I have no evidence, photos, emails, videos, or anything concrete to support my case in having the local family court assume jurisdiction early for compelling circumstances, other then having my 6 year old daughter testify to what has been going on. I don't know if I could do that to her. The first thing she told me when the W brought them back on Sunday was "Dad, when we pulled into the driveway, I saw all kinds of beer cans and bottles in the yard." My W denies that, but then admitted that when the OM's probation officer arrived, there were beer bottles piled up in a wheel barrow by the door (instant probation violation), and thats how they were able to search the house.

I begged her to go to marriage/couple counceling before she told me that I had to get out of the house. She said it would do no good. She used the anaology "Its like a pile of salt in the wind. Each time you said something nasty, it was like the wind blowing some of it away, until there was nothing left", but when she said that, she didn't acknowledge the fact that I wasn't like that at all before her first A, and that I was acting like that because I didn't know any other way at the time, to deal with it.

I have contemplated going to a Dr., but have reservations about it...I saw a psychiatrist once, and she gave me a lits of 4 drugs and told me to pick one...I refused, and at least two of those drugs are involved in class action lawsuits.I saw a councelor over the past year, and it was a huge waste of time.

I wish I could get her away from her older sister, because she holds influence over her, and she kicke her H of 12 years out (a decent, non-alchoholic man), so that she could have an A with an abusive drunkard. I swear, I just cannot FATHOM what the hell is wrong with these people! Misery loves company, I guess. I'm afraid to live with her again, especially since its only been 12 days since she made me leave. I think that it would just happen all over again. I can't live with her until she gets out of there, realizes that her family is no good, and makes attempts to return to being the woman I met, fell in love with, and married. That person is buried under lots of fog right now. But then again, I miss her so much, that I can barely stand it. I'm so confused...I don't know what I should do.

bump

Dimmu

I don't mean to sound harsh, but, you asked what you can do to save your marriage, and I listed several things that would be helpful in your effort.

You catagorically stated why none of them would work.

The Marriage Builder's program WILL work, but you have to BUY into it, and BELIEVE it will work.

You are the one that will HAVE TO DO the work to get through this. But finding reasons why NOT to take any recommended action, not by me, but as a part of the MB philosophy, is going to get you nowhere.

JMHO
SD

Does anyone out there have advice for my situation? I am trying to figure out how to remotely do plan A (W is 2 1/2 hrs away). With the OM out of the way, at least temporarily, I see this as a window of opportunity. She either going to call later, or she is going to drive up to see the children. I don't know what to say to her. I have been talking about the past, and the present, and hopeful futures with her. I talk about the pain, how I still love her, you name it. Usually she tries to cut the conversation short, says things like "I can't talk about this right now", or "We can talk about things, little bits at a time..."

Please...anyone out there, I am desperate...

sorry shattered dreams, I was posting my last reply before I saw yours.

I am trying to follow your advice. I will be buying the book, as soon as I can. I have been trying to figure out how to keep my children from my W's house. I don't have any health insurance, so I can't see a Dr. about anti-depressents yet.

I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Thats why I have been reading posts here on MB, every chance I can get. I do believe in the MB program, well as much as I can understand of it at this time. Thats why I haven't reacted to her current A in a negative way, like I did during the first one. I am just very confused, and tore up...

I also ask anyone and everyone to please be patient with me...the only time I can think clearly is when I am with my children, focusing on what they need. But during times apart from them, due to school and what not...I can barely think about anything else but my W, the A, the OM, and the problems that let up to this...so please forgive me if I don't appear to be taking advice, or if I appear to ramble on about things. Sometimes, my fingers just type faster than I can organize my thoughts.

Dimmu

The first thing you need to do is calm down. All of this will take a firm committment from you, and a lot of time and patience. You need to understand that doing this will require you approach it MENTALLY, NOT EMOTIONALLY. Your emotions are too raw and confused right now, so listen to your brain, not your heart.

Rather than reading the threads, read all about the Marriage Builder's philosophy, starting at the home page, until you can get the book.

Eliminate all Love Busters towards your WW. Do not commit Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements towards her. Do NOT denegrate or be disrespectful to the OM in any way. She will "defend" him in your presence, and break your heart. While she's in the fog of an affair, she'll even PROVOKE you to become angry and commit lovebusters. Do not fall into her trap. Just don't do it.

Fill her LoveBank$ by filling all of the EN's, Emotional Needs that you can. Invite her back to live with you, as Plan A is easier to do while together.

AD's will help you keep grounded. There are two other that aren't in a class action suit, right? Explore them. This is not a dash, it's a marathon. Mentally prepare for a long, rough ride.

If you are sincere, and truly want your marriage to survive, you can do this.

SD

Dimmu,

First, I'm sorry that your situation is so complicated..and the road ahead of you apprently so difficult.

But..I think you need to ask yourself some hard questions about why you want this relationship to continue. It seems to me that - as long as the kids can be taken care of - it may be time to simply let go.

From what you've written here, it doesn't sound like your wife is really interested in putting things back together. If she isn't..it'll never work, no matter how hard you try or what you do.

Ask yourself whether it's really love that keeps you hanging on...or could it be something else? Anger, maybe? Fear? Maybe competition?

Only you know the answer to this. If you love her then by all means, try. But, recognize that what you have described here is already a highly dysfunctional relationship. How much further into dysfunction are you willing to slide?

Take a hard look at your feelings.

I know that one of her major EN is closeness and intimacy. When we started having our problems, we started having seperate schedules, so it was hard to have intimate moments. When our first child was born, she put me on the back burner, as I have read alot of mom's do. I feel as though she wanted inimacy on her own terms. Her dad told me that she has been self-centered and bull headed for a long time. But she wasn't like that for the first 2 1/2-3yrs we were together. Now I am temporarily living at my Mom's, and she isn't allowed here (my Mom hates her because of all of this). I can't go back there, as I feel that it will enable her to keep hanging around all of her negative influences. I am working with her dad to at least get her to move nearby. That way she can see the children without all of those other people being around, and I can be close enough to her that I can hopefully meet her EN. I wanted her to fill out the EN questionnaire, but she made me move out before I could give it to her. I couldn't stop crying everytime I spoke to her, or saw her, so she tries to limit the time we are around each other. I hate myself for that...I wish I could control it. I tell myself "okay, she'll be here any minute, get a grip and don't cry". But as soon as she walks through the door, I lose it. She feels financially stable where she is, and thats another obstacle in getting her to leave the area she is in. This is why I am confused and can't formulate a good Plan A...there are so many hurdles, and they sometimes feel higher than I can jump...

Dimmu

Like you I am a BS and my fww had an affair.
So much of what you feel and the confusion and lack of knowing how to start are familar.

But first, first of all you must protect your kids. They come before you & your ww.

Now you have a VERY good case to present for sole custody.
Firstly you are & have been the stay at home parent;
Secondly, the raid on your old home, the finding of drugs, the OM living there and being arrested, the Police can actually provide evidence.
Dimmu if a first year law student can't get you primary if not sole custody something is very wrong!!!
And having done this she should be paying support.

The added bonus of this is that it will help drag her out of the FOG of the affair.

You MUST put aside your own feelings and protect those children. Go & see a lawyer & start the ball rolling. Tell the lawyer the full story about speaking to the police during the raid and the allegations she wanted you to admit to, everything and make those kids safe!!
It is more imporant that any MB action, that you can work on after the kids are safe.

She has chosen this lifestyle and your kids should not be put in danger because of it.

Many here will be here to help with the MB stuff so don't worry on that score. You can do both things, MB & protect kids.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: aussie2 ]</small>

-AndrewA

I know it sounds crazy that I still love her. She and I had great times in the past. Its just that after her first A (which I truly believe she regrets), we didn't have a Plan For Marital Recovery, and thats what led one negative thing to another. I know that deep down, underneath all the fog, she loves me, and wishes things could be like the way they were. I needed help with dealing with the first A, and I have finally found it in the articles here at MB. She needs help as well. But I know she needs to recognize this, and want to help herself. Thats why I have reservations about asking her to live with me again.

One of the most important parts of Plan A, is to change all of the things about yourself which were negative contributions to the marriage, Pre-Affair.

Those things need to change permanently. Too often those changes are made long enough to lure the WS back, then people return to the old, established behaviors, and the marriage turns south again.

Protect your kids, get your WW closer to where your Plan A can be exercised more efficiently, stabilize all you can about your relationship, and Plan A your A$$ off.

Expect any progress to be made in miniscule dribs and drabs. You are not going to get any earth-moving "lightbulb" moments. Enjoy and build on the small success.

Good luck
SD

-aussie2

I have contacted about 6 lawyers in the state i reside in currently. They have all informed me that because my W and I lived in another state for over a year, that state has jurisdiction over custody cases. They informed me that I must reside in my state with the children for at least 6 months before the local court can assume jurisdiction. I don't know what my W, or any of the degenerates living in her house told the cops, other than blaming me for thier activities, so I don't know if they signed any false statements. My W also was not arrested, or recieved any charges. My Mom said she might take out a loan for a retainer fee for a lawyer to get the ball rolling, to find out exactly what is going on, and to get full custody of my children. Before my W was raided, she was telling me she would sign over full custody.

I was thinking of bringing that back up in conversation with her later. If she does that, then that would be a huge weight lifted from my shoulders. I could sit down with her and say "Look, hun. You chose that lifestyle, and kicked me out. I warned you that you were hanging out with an unsavory lot. What happened the other night is no one else's fault but your own. I refuse to allow my children to be hurt, and subjected to your chosen lifestyle. You know that I can use the evidence found by the police in a custody battle. Infidelity can be proven, as you admitted to them that Chad was living there, and sleeping in your bed, at least within 10 days of you moving the children and I out of there. I love you, and I don't want to do this, so please just sign over custody, and agree to visit them up here." I am afraid of that being a huge LB, but the children come before her.

-shattered dreams

I decided before she made me move out, to make permanent changes, to try and become, as close as I can, the man I was before the first A. I know that it is impossible to be that exact same person. I'll always remember what happened. But I want to be wiser and more careful with my relationship with my W. Or, if she and I end up being over for good, I will be more careful in future relationships.

Thank you, everyone. Your advice and support means a lot to me. I'm going to take my son out for a little bit. I'm also going to stop in at the one place I applied for a job, and inform them I have the babysitter situation worked out. I'll be back here on MB soon. Thank you again.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Dimmu ]</small>

Should I say anything about custody to her? I expect to hear from her within the next few hours. I'm not sure when she'll call, because she sometimes has to work mandatory overtime. If she has the money for gas, she may drive up here without calling, and I don't want her to take the children.

I'm nervous about it. I'm not sure how to handle the situation.

bump

Well, I just talked to her on the phone. I haven't been crying while talking to her the past few times, but it was all I could do to not break down this time. We started the conversation as usual, asking how we're doing, how was our day, etc. I ask her if she's been thinking about me at all, and she said no, not at all. I ask her if I could read her a poem I wrote, and she told me to send it. I asked her if she would read it, and she said yes. I start asking what went wrong, how she fell out of love, and she said it was many things, but she wasn't specific. I asked her if she would at least think about moving closer, and she said she thinks about it sometimes, but not as much lately, and basically flat out said no. I asked her what is is she needs from a man, because all she ever said was "intimacy". She then said that she needs to feel cared for, or for someone to at least "pretend" that they care. I try to remind her that I have always cared, always loved, and always tried to be intimate with her. She wasn't around enough because of her job and being with her sister and coworkers, etc, so how could I be intimate? A lot of our arguments towards the end were over how long she was not around each day.

I told her that I felt that she was all mixed up emotionally and vulnerable, and that the OM saw that and took advantage of that. She said something along the lines of "Yeah, probably". I reminded her that his mom kicked him out before she let him stay at our house, he gets into trouble, has a criminal record, etc. She doesn't seem to care about any of that, and also admitted that she doesn't see long term plans with the OM. In a way I am relieved, but a little miffed that she is basically saying that yeah its an affair, so what. She also mentioned how she doesn't love me, or be around me, but doesn't hate me, feels bad for me and for her sisters husband her was dumped around the same time. But later says that we will occasionally hang out, watch a movie, and things like thats. So I don't know whats up with all of that. Before I moved out, she would she tears here and there, and sometimes I would sense doubt about splitting up in her. I still think that she still loves me in there somewhere, even though she totally denies it. Now that I don't live there, she seems a lot more cold towards me.

I said I didn't want the kids to be around the OM, or anyone who is having an affair (like her sister). She said the OM was part of her life now, and didn't agree with any of it. So, if I can file a restraining order against those people, it will be a major LB, but the children are more important. It makes me nervous as it is that they will occasionally be going to another state for 2-3 days at a time. Either way, I don't know how well I handled the conversation, I can't even remember everything that was said. Trying to do Plan A is hard, and its painful, and I have been doing it as best I can for only a few days...