Why R U afraid of plan B? Should you be? If so why or why not?

Does the fear of plan B justify allowing the family and BS t/b subject to continuous abuse? Should the BS continue to enable the A?

L.

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I don't think that I am really afraid of Plan B. I'm just afraid of not waiting long enough to start. I want to make sure Plan A is firmly embeded in WW's brain before I take the leap of faith.

When the time comes I will probably have my fears though. BS should fear Plan B only because it can yield the end of the M. However, at the same time like WAT says it's success depends on how you define success. Probably a misquote but the idea is there I believe. It could be successful because it brings back your WS or because it prepares you for being witout them.

Fear should never be allowed to rule our lives. Easier said though..... As for Enabling the A.... Well, that is the cardinal sin around here. BS should avoid enabling the A at all costs.

C.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shmaley:
<strong> ....BS should fear Plan B only because it can yield the end of the M. ....Fear should never be allowed to rule our lives. Easier said though..... As for Enabling the A.... Well, that is the cardinal sin around here. BS should avoid enabling the A at all costs.

C. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anything and either of the spouses can end the M. Plan B is a where a BS in turmoil needs to go when their plan A objective has been met and the WS is still out there in the fog. Prolonging plan A turns any positive steps backwards and delays personal and marital recovery.

JMHO, of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">when their plan A objective has been met </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you know when the objective has been met? And what exactly is the objective in your opinion?

C.

I think the objective of Plan A would be to show your WS that you and your home are a safe haven. To look at all you have done to contribute to the state of your marriage and what might have contributed to your WS's affair, and to correct those things.

It would only take until your could consistently demonstrate these changes.

If your marriage was good and you weren't LB'ing all over the place I think the objectives of Plan A could be met quickly. If you pretty much sucked at being a good spouse it would take longer. It just depends on how your marriage was.

To stay in Plan A any longer than it takes to demonstrate that you are a safe place would be counterproductive because then you run the risk of enabling the affair.

I personally would be more afraid of Plan A then Plan B. Plan A would be very difficult for me to maintain because of the conflicting emotions and the war in my own head saying get out you lying cheating jerk!

Plan B seems like a safe haven for the BS, a chance to heal, and a chance to put a stop to the chaos and insanity. Also a chance to show WS that enough is enough. The Plan B (love) letter would probably be about the only Plan A I would do before going into Plan B, but that is just me. And as I have mostly been alone, being alone would not scare me but I think that is a factor for many others here who have a hard time with Plan B.

Weaver said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the objective of Plan A would be to show your WS that you and your home are a safe haven. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this is lighthouse thingy? I have heard lighthouse mentioned but have not seen the post. What makes a safe haven and how do I convey this to WW?

C.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why R U afraid of plan B? Should you be? If so why or why not?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not so much afraid of it as I do not think it is appropriate in my situation. I was really UNSURE of it before, but as I read roughroad's posts and her sessions with SH..I could see how Plan B could be more harmful to my marriage than helpful. I do not think that is true in all cases...but I believe that when the marriage partners are already separated and a lot of detachment as already happened...when there isn't much fence-sitting going on (the WS shows signs that they are mostly on the divorce side of the fence), that plan b isn't always the greatest idea.

And yet, I am toying with the thought of it after the holidays. We seem to be stagnant..moving neither forward nor back. My husband still fills my lovebank enough for me to Plan A. If I don't see SOMETHING change by the holidays, then I need to take action. I feel like I need to remove myself from the situation in order to start letting my lovebank reach 0.

Should people be afraid of it? No, but I can understand why they are. Starting your plan B is a huge step towards taking control of a situation. But after that..the relationship is kind of out of your hands. That's hard to accept. Plus there is always that hope that something you do or say will click with your WS while you're in Plan A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does the fear of plan B justify allowing the family and BS t/b subject to continuous abuse? Should the BS continue to enable the A?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my case, and in some other cases here, Plan B actually enables the affair (or new lifestyle of the WS) more than Plan A. It is not so much the FEAR that Plan B will do that...as the reality of it. I truly think this is situational BUT I think that for MOST BSs, plan B is an appropriate plan. If I do a Plan B it will not be done with the intent to force the WS to fully live with the consequences of his actions. It will be in order for me to lose love, and that is the only reason I will do it.

I think it's really important to take a close look at your spouse's actions and behavoir and attitude to know whether or not a Plan B is appropriate. I am NOT losing love for my spouse, but I cannot do this Plan A forever regardless of my lovebank balance.

roughroad, graycloud and parkem are three people for whom I can say that Plan B is not really appropriate. To some extent, their spouses basically have plan B'd THEM. My husband would have done the same thing with me, but I'm too much of a PIA to let that happen. I think I will have to eventually, but it's because my fear of continuing to love him, rather than fear of losing love.

lol..does any of that make sense?

Hi Orchid.....what a coincidence, I was gonna start a thread for myself this morning called...

IM ABORTING PLAN B, IM SCARED!!!

I dont think plan b is going to work for me, WH said yesterday to daughter, well mom doesnt have any use for me, so i dont have any use for her. Mind you, our last confrontation did not go well. I was very angry. He thinks I dispise him.

He doesnt understand, and you know what why should he, he is not experiencing the pain i am feeling, he has no idea what this feels like. Only will he feel like this when his OW decides to leave him.

Daughter told him that I am renting out his precious garage/workshop, it didnt even fizz him. Tell the guy to just put the rest of my stuff to one side is all he said.

Maddy said something that hit me hard, plan b is not for couples where the WH is already distancing himself and clearly showing signs of it over and i am not coming back. I think that is us.

So what do i do? Abort plan b?

Orchid, you asked what scares us about plan b? Out of sight, out of mind scares me to death. Also i feel the longer WH is away from home and family, the easier it will get for him.

I think the only way i have a chance is if his OW picks up and leaves, even then he has said he's not coming back.

I have been so sad and down the past couple of weeks. Even though i havent seen WH in the past month, he has been interacting in some sort of way with our D, either picking her up and driving her home, or chatting on the computer with her. Or should i say, WH says what he wants to say while OW sits there and types it. Makes me sick it hurts so bad.

D is just eating it all up, wow, she in now getting so much attention from Dad, when he lived here, he barely took any interest in her, just to tell her to stop doing something or get to bed.

She even said that she likes OW and she is real nice and pretty.

Im sorry this is turning out to be a vent.

I beleive plan b would work in most situations, but as maddy said, there are exceptions.

A/C0810

well i pretty much ditto what maddy has said. i could never have done a plan B because that's exactly what my H would have wanted and what would have made it easier on him. how do i know this because he basically plan B'd me. sent me a letter that said he couldn't talk to me anymore (remind you he is the WS i'm the BS), that he was moving out of our house (i wasn't even living there so it was going to be empty) that i shouldn't seek him out even though he knew i could find him and her (his words). he did say that i could email him if i needed to communicate w/him.

"chaos" was not a part of our situation because we do not have kids and because we lived in 2 different states. SH told me that plan B's are generally not a good idea when there are no kids involved and that the communication lines should always be kept open (granted if the BS still wants them open). but since my H basically plan B'd me i'm not so disagreeable about doing some type of letter. but i would consider it more of a goodbye letter. more of the reason i would do this is to say some of the things that i want to say (what he is doing is wrong, the fact that their R started as an A will never change, that i do recognize my part in the desmise of our M and have made changes, etc) but that i still love him and still believe that if we worked together that we could rebuild our M.

i'm kind of just taking one day at a time, expecting to receive D papers any day and maybe i'll still send a letter before the D is final. don't know. i'm still praying hard, expecting the worse, and hoping for the best. but i think it is clear that there are some very valid fears about going into plan B and that plan B is not necessarily applicable to every situation. even the definition of plan B differs.

that's my 2 cents, God Bless, RR

plan b for me came at almost three years after d-day. (i know---im a slow learner!) but for me i knew i needed to do everything i could on my own first. i have an 8 yr old who i knew would be devastated....and he was, i will never forget the sounds of his cries or wailing.) i knew, for me, i would have to look into his eyes(sons) and be able to tell him i did all i could. i knew he would know if i was lying....so for me it took a bit longer than most.

the upside---we separated for awhile...got my boundries in order, he is now counseling with steve and an idividual counselor, and we are doing great! he for the first time since d-day is getting it. i prayed for the day i would be able to say that!

I'm afraid of Plan B. Afraid that it will be the end of our M, and I'm most certain it would be. I think I'm in the situation where WH is kind of in the mindset that the M is already over and he's "just giving it a 2nd chance for the kid's sake so he can say he tried." If he leaves, I think that will definitely be the end of it. Part of me, though, says that even though he says he's giving it a 2nd chance "just for the kid's sake" isn't 100% true. I'd like to believe that deep down he really still loves me and misses what we had and wants it back. But I think he also truly believes he's in love with the OW and she's his "2nd chance for happiness," although I told him WE could have a 2nd chance at happiness if we just TRY. I will say, though, that I WILL Plan B if I discover that WH hasn't kept to his NC agreement. Because if he can't stay away from her, then we have no chance anyway. And that's where I draw the line - I will not KNOWINGLY allow the A to continue while he's living in my house. I told him that if he is living here, he is MY H and he will act that way. Also, I think he's deathly afraid of everyone finding out. So I think if we Plan B and it's exposed, then at that point it won't matter anymore. I think by him staying, he has hope that no one will ever find out (well, none of HIS family, friends or co-workers, but of course I've told some of MY friends).

I suppose I'll add my $.02, as I am probably the poster child for the pros and cons of Plan B.

I honestly was not scared when I went to Plan B. My WW's ongoing A and ongoing attitude towards the situation was destroying me. It was most necessary for me. At the time, my primary focus was still the restoration of my M, at all costs, including me.

The separation (Plan B) was most beneficial FOR ME. But I can also agree that it may have been detrimental to my M.

I certainly think out of sight, out of mind applies in my case. I think this allowed WW to continue her A, completely uninhibited. Admittedly, "support" from her family probably didn't help the sitch much, either.

So would I do it again?

Honestly, I don't know. I could have moved back to our house. But WW would have moved out instantly. I believe her plan was to move in with OM2, and date OM3, or move with her parents. Who knows..... So I would have pretty much been in a Plan B situation anyway.

But I think I would have lost something: perspective. I am know able to better examine my M from outside/above. (Of course, it's still MY M, so I can't get the whole outside picture....)

Here's my latest realization. I am approaching my 3rd anniversary. For each anniversary, there has been a different OM. How depressing is that? I'm not sure I would have gained any insight into what I want out of not only this M/R, but any. And I'd run a greater risk of doing this the rest of my life. The amount of he!! I would have gone through to stay in Plan A would have probably killed me.

weaver-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Plan B seems like a safe haven for the BS, a chance to heal, and a chance to put a stop to the chaos and insanity. Also a chance to show WS that enough is enough. The Plan B (love) letter would probably be about the only Plan A I would do before going into Plan B, but that is just me. And as I have mostly been alone, being alone would not scare me but I think that is a factor for many others here who have a hard time with Plan B.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The healing is the most important thing. And it does SLOW the amount of chaos/insanity. For me, I always thought that Plan B would bring WW back. It hasn't. So being alone wasn't a consideration, until I was there.

maddyk,
I think you bring up a perfect "devil's advocate" position. But to a certain extent, by not just leaving and D'ing immediately you can be seen as enabling the A. Whether by "Plan Aing" your WS, or Plan Bing the situation, you're "allowing" th e A to happen. But in reality, there is nothing you can do to stop it and there comes a point where you have to put your self preservation first. I think noodle's post from yesterday puts a good frame on this.....

And I think that A/C brings up an excellent point. The WS may misconstrue what you are doing. Either by thier own inability to read and understand or by being fed thier thoughts by someone else. I can also imagine that my WW thinks I'm angry at/with her. But I think a couple's best opportunity for recovery is when (and if) the WS can get thier head far enough out of thier hindside to know what's going on. If they don't get it, they just don't. And they might never.......

Ethan

Ethan, good point. Plan A, Plan B...both allow the WS to continue the affair.

I just know that for me, Plan B WILL be self-preservation. I am not losing love. Cannot really see myself losing love. At some point I have to...I cannot be a 2 or 3 year Plan A'er with or without my deadline (we have set a June date for divorce if we can't work on things).

I have managed to detach myself and see things from a different perspective, which is good.

roughroad points out some good things too. A big geographical separation like hers (and mine) and no kids...

If the WS has already achieved their emotional divorce..well, what then? Is it time to give up? Do you keep trying? Obviously Plan B is ONLY for self-preservation at that point.

See, I *think* my husband has achieved his emotional divorce, but I'm not sure others looking at my situation would think so. I don't know..it's hard..and it's confusing.

I'm scared of Plan B. I'm scared of not seeing my children. I'm scared the only time I'll see them is when WW is having another tryst.

I'm scared that I'll never be missed, and that the only thing she ever wanted from me in our marriage was financial security.

Is that phobic enough?

And do I need a Plan B letter... the divorce is in the works.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

I was afraid of plan B. I was mainly afraid that I would lose my H forever.

Now that I have been in plan B for almost three weeks, I am not really afraid of this anymore. I have come to realize that I can live without my H. Although I really missed him at first, I am doing things for myself and I am enjoying my freedom.

Currently, all I can do is remember the negatives of our M. At this point, I don’t know why I’ve been trying to save my M.

Here are the facts:
- My H came to this country on a student visa to finish his degree in the States. He never finished his degree, but we got married and he is now a US citizen.
- I have always been the main breadwinner and I NEVER cared how much he earned as long as he either worked or studied.
- I have always done most of the household duties – handling our finances, doing all of the shopping, and most of the cooking and cleaning.
- I went back to school (part-time while working full-time) and just got my MBA.

Despite all of this, according to him, I am “lazy,” I “lack common sense,” and best of all, I am “worthless as a human being.” (I swear he told me that once.) Nothing is ever good enough, clean enough, fast enough, etc. and I am always wrong. It IS clear to me that he is insecure, though he acts as if he is perfect, and tries to bring me down to make himself feel better. I don’t know if he consciously realizes this, though.

On top of this, I have to deal now with his lies, deceit, and new secret personal life. He tells his family that he is unhappy in his M and has been for a long time and longs to be “free,” but he doesn’t have the guts to tell me this to my face. He wants to “go back in time” and “start his life over” and be single again – going out to night clubs every weekend.

My H is about to be promoted to a position at work that will pay him at least what I make, if not more. I have always told him that I am proud of him. But now I find it very coincidental that, faced with his new opportunities, he wants to be free. He has been throwing me bones and keeping me hanging on until he finds out what is going on at work. Then he was going to tell me how he feels about our M and leave. But in the meantime, I am good enough to keep around so that he can continue to enjoy his current lifestyle. We took two nice trips this year. We’ve sent money to his family. He’s convinced me during this past year to use my bonus at work to pay off his car. He’s gotten $2000 worth of dental work done that our insurance wouldn’t cover - dental work that was not urgent. It could have waited a year or two. I am realizing now that he has been intentionally planning this all along. And he’s been sneaking around on the side. This was all during my plan A.

How could I have been so stupid all along? I am embarrassed to even be admitting all of this. Love really is blind. I feel used and stupid. Am I that horrible to deserve all of this?
So, to end this all, I have to say that, in my case, fear of plan B would have continued to subject me to the abuse.

At this point I am beginning to heal. I don’t know if I’ll ever heal fully, but I’m going to try.

Thanks for your comments and responses. Your responses help yourself and others see where you current fears are.

This thread was started to do just that, show you where you fears are in regards to plan B.

Most of who posted have not done plan B yet. The fear of the unknown scares you. Yet, do you realize that your same fears can happen in plan A or at anytime? Divorce, separation, anger, frustration, fear of losing, support, love, care and the children are all currently part of your daily fears regardless of which plan you are in.

On that note, I would like to share the point that plan B does not eleviate all those items, but it does help make it easier for the BS and family.

Why? Because plan B gives the WS all the time they originally clamored for, not all the $$ or the lack of responsibility, but just the time. Not a bad trade off if you realize that that time, reduces stress from the BS and puts it back on the shoulders of the WS.

Can it cause the WS to spend more time with the OP? Yes. How about leading to Divorce? Yes. It can also wear out the A quicker than plan A and let the BS cause LBs between the WS and OP without lifting a finger. It also gives the BS some sense of control which in turn strengthens the position of the BS and family. So that if there is a chance of recovery, it w/b up to the BS and family to allow or reject. It also sets better requirements and yes control back into the hands of the safe and sane parties (BS and family).

Are there more pros than cons to plan B? That is an opinion question and IMHO, yes there is. Is it worth the risk? Yes, it is. Unless the BS wants the continued pain of turning into a BS doormat.

See plan A has it's value but only to a point. Just like giving our children the best of everything, has it's value, it can also turn them into spoiled brats. It is not the item being given, it is the attitude of the recipient. When a lack of appreciation (or in the WS case - lack of care, loyalty, respect, honesty and love), then continuing t/b in plan A often results in a spoiled WS who expects the BS and family to enable their A. Oh yea..... the WS try real hard to get many a BS to enable the A. Take a look at all the current examples. Some of the stories I have heard are quite wild. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So please, think again about plan B. Proper preparation and knowing your boundaries are vital to a good implementation of plan B but it is not as scary as you think. In fact, it is probably a safer alternative than most of you realize.

Staying in plan A too long c/b devasting to the BS and family.

That's it Orchid.

You just gave it to me, had the concept but no words.

In Plan B you gain control of a situation which is out of control, and you regain your "self". You also give your marriage a chance because right now it is spiraling out of control. To love someone is to be strong when they are weak, to see what needs to be done and do it, because they cannot. To be sane when they are insane.

Thank you Orchid so much. I know why you started this thread now. So many here who need Plan B right now but do not see the benefit or the why.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> .... So many here who need Plan B right now but do not see the benefit or the why. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bingo!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks Weaver. I am glad to see your post of support. If we can get 1 BS through this mess with less pain by going to plan B before they are plan A'd out.... we will have done good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

I'm not quite to Plan B but close. I have the letter written. It is just a matter of timing.

I am scared of Plan B. I think my wife will go to OM. I don't know if he has the balls emough to leave his wife, we will see. My wife has walked the plank so to speak. Signed a separation agreement and has left the house. I basically forced her out Tuesday. I said it is time to leave. She and OM have been talking everday since DDay. So I felt I had no choice.
yes I am scared. But not for losing my wife but for the change it brings. I have always not been a big change advicate. But I must change, I have no choice. I ask myself did I really love her or did I just fear change so much?

Hopefulinnc,

I read your post and understand your fear but if you really think about it, are not these same fears going to happen whether you are in plan B or not?

Communication of any sort with an OP is disrespectful to the M. When a WS acts as a WS and the BS is done showing their improvements (done as in identification by BS, work in progress and acknowledgement by the WS in seeing the improvements), then what else is there to plan A for?

Most of us were afraid of plan B to different degrees. Most who did a good plan B don't have any regrets. Even in recovery, plan B is safe to carry around. I do. To this day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.