Update

ww commited to relationship
ww says she is willing to to NC letter
ww has taken steps to show that she wants M
WW has agreed to MC together
ww agreed to change house phone number and cell number

BUT

NC has not officially been done yet.
i suspect that a 2nd cell phone exists (not sure)
I know that after changing cell number a text message was sent from phone.
ww seems somewhat angry again

Im just not sure if she is committed or not.

What happens when someone slips back to C after they have committed to nc?

It seems like the fog has lifted.....

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Just a Husband ]</small>

not sure what to do.....

I want to send ww article on

Four Rules to Guide
Marital Recovery After an Affair

but i dont want to shove the book or website at her....

not sure if i should send it or just back off for now....

PLAN A, PLAN A, PLAN A

Things are still very early on....the fog is LIFTING...but isn't entirely lifted yet.

She may be angry from withdrawal, your suspicions in the beginning are HYPER sensitive. I remember canvasing NONSTOP for the first month or so....it made me NUTS. I don't know what it was....the anxiety associated with snooping...or NOT finding anything and convincing myself that he was just better at hiding it.

I nearly went over the edge at the very beginning of recovery.

Then I had a revelation.

This is my H...not my child...not my prodigy...not my dependant....I needed to let go of it. I can't be M to a spouse I have to "babysit" 24/7... and I accepted IF he wanted to go back to his old deceitful behaviors...that was HIS mistake...I would stumble upon it sooner or later...just as I had on DDAY.

What kind of M is that. So I put it down....and it's 7 months later...and we're still doing great.

By the way....there was no further contact....but in the first month....I would have bet my life on it.

BIJ

Thanks for responding....i feel exactly like you described. I am so unsure...

did you discuss these feelings with you spouse? or did you just ride it out and not say anything? Did you constantly want to ask about communication? i want to ask...but dont.

I have a need to discuss the issues of the A and talk about a plan for recovery but im not sure its time.

Di i just stay the course on plan A and let her dictate when to talk about R and M?

did you guys do a NC letter? In my case she told me that she told OM not to call her anymore and then a day later she said she never actually told him that. Do i discuss nc with her and THEN step back from it....?

betrayedinjersey,

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but thanks for the post! It helped me TREMENDOUSLY! For me it's now been 10 days since D-day, 9 days since WH agreed to NC with OW. Last night, though, I was 100% sure he was with her and called him and "blew up" at him. Reacted totally out of anger and let my emotions take over. Should've remained calm. It was a total LB. This morning I've been struggling with kicking myself over the way I acted and wondering if he was telling the truth or was he really with her. There's really no way for me to know. I finally realize, after reading your post, that I have to let go....insist on reasonable assurances but otherwise let it go.

You're right, if the WS wants to have C again or decides to see the OP again, the BS can't really stop them. What about just coming to an agreement between the BS and the WS about what will be expected as far as the BS getting reassurances? Like agreeing to call X number of times a day, call before leaving work, show cell phone records if agreed to, or whatever else is needed? But I'm saying agreeing, like it should be agreed to between both spouses, not necessarily demanded by the BS. What do you think?

Suffering

I agree that there should be some basic recovery boundries set and then you need to detach and backoff....the question is when and how to present those issues.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just a Husband:
not sure what to do.....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If saving this marriage is worth your effort...

POJA with your W what the following 6 months wil / should look like.

The process[i] of POJA will be one of the indicators about the willingness of both of you[/i] to make yourselves vulnerable to the decisions / solutions you jointly come up with.

Re-read POJA and takes notes, explain the tool to your wife, ask if she will accept the POJA tool as the beginning of your new and improved relationship.

Doing this will effectively STOP independent behaviors on both your parts.

Pep

pep

Thanks....should i do this alone with her or at our first MC session together?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just a Husband:
<strong> pep

Thanks....should i do this alone with her or at our first MC session together? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would think that, were I your wife, I would appreciate YOU coming to me directly ( with enthusiastic optimism) offering this great tool ---> as

"something to make us both work equally hard and feel comfortable that we will be heard and understood by each other."

Pep

Just A Husband,

Still praying for you and your wife..

Waking Up

Thanks.....I just dont want to seem like im pushing it on her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> did you discuss these feelings with you spouse? or did you just ride it out and not say anything? Did you constantly want to ask about communication? i want to ask...but dont.

I have a need to discuss the issues of the A and talk about a plan for recovery but im not sure its time.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the beginning what I thought was "discussing" were really demands. It took me some time to realize I was doing this. My wounds were raw...and I was thinking too emotionally.

It was a slap in the face to me in the beginning...because I above all people have a fundamental belief that EVERYONE is an individual, and they are first accountable to themselves, their own happiness, their own values. I include this line of thinking with my own children. And here I was.... judging and belittling my H....ugh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

But then we discussed...and this is what my FWH told me at that time... because I was hammering him with questions about the A...the same questions...getting the same answers...and here I was...badgering away. How awful. BUT...during our discussion...we stumbled across the issue that I was missing...I really didn't want to talk about the A anymore....I was keeping it alive in our lives..where he wanted to leave it in the past. I WAS KEEPING IT ALIVE.

In reality...I was seeking REASSURANCE...and in our POJA we decided it was perfectly OKAY and EXPECTED for me to seek reassurance, but my path should be different...it wouldn't involve A talk.

This was a big eye opener for me.

And in regards to the NC letter...we didn't send one. There was a phone conversation...with the three of us...and he pretty much read her the riot act. On her last leg..she threatened him..and that's when she burned her own bridge. Threats don't really fly with my H.

The cell phone number was changed...the pager number was changed...she called my house ONCE on his Bday about 6 weeks after NC...to which she lived to regret making that call.

I stopped snooping about 3 months ago. And boy...did it take the weight of the world off me when I got to the acceptance point.

This isn't all my OWN personal victory...I have to give much credit to my H....who was able to really step outside his own feelings..to help me deal with mine a little better.

We have trigger moments...trust me...had one last week...first one in months...but...he didn't get it in the beginning...than admitted he was wrong not to try to see things from my POV..and we talked it out.

This will sound completely off the wall..but the communication in my M...has improved on so many levels...I'm almost greatful ... (no 2 X 4s please)

BIJ

let me ask you a question.....Do you think this can work without the N/C phone call or letter? Is the action of doing it that monumental or can it just be agreed upon by both of us?

sufferingw,

You asked :
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What about just coming to an agreement between the BS and the WS about what will be expected as far as the BS getting reassurances? Like agreeing to call X number of times a day, call before leaving work, show cell phone records if agreed to, or whatever else is needed? But I'm saying agreeing, like it should be agreed to between both spouses, not necessarily demanded </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Some of what I replied with previously addressed exactly this. POJA is great ...but try not to create schedules...this may be unnecessary and unprompted.

I would mentally keep track of the contact throughout the day... is there any unaccountable time ?

My H is pretty good at letting me know his daily events..and calls frequently....letting me know he's arrived at the job site...let's me know when he leaves....we discuss what's for dinner..how are day is going... all that every day life stuff.

I don't want him to call me because we've agreed on this...I want him to call me out of his heart..knowing it grounds me...if he makes that effort.

It's all about the Plan A...I can NOT stress this enough..and you'll find it repeated over and over in my posts. I instituted Plan A...and have adopted it into my life style.... and I'll tell you what..my H has never read SAA...but has learned from my example..and he Plan A's his little hiney off without even knowing it.

Hang in there SW...it's very early on...and you have a lot to digest. This is difficult...our attempts to "overcome" too quickly only slap us back !

BIJ

How did you introduce the POJA to your husband? book? website? or did you just work it into your discussions?

JAH,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think this can work without the N/C phone call or letter? Is the action of doing it that monumental or can it just be agreed upon by both of us?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To be PERFECTLY honest...I think any approach can work as long as both are COMMITTED to it.

This may yield me a smack or two on the forum...and it's not necessarily the MB principal..but let's face it...there are more than a handful of WS on the boards that did the NC letter/phone call...by the book...and contact was renewed...so I don't think it's about a gesture. Does that make sense ?

Putting the shoe on the proverbial other foot...if I was the WS...I could write any letter you wanted me to..signed, sealed with a kiss..and hand delived by my BS..... then I could call later that night and say to OP...well geez... spouse had me over a barrel... you know I didn't mean any of that stuff.

Actions...speak louder than words...and isn't a NC letter just words ?

If a NC letter/call is agreed upon as part of your individual recovery plan...and works for both of you...than have at it....but if it isn't POJA...how does that help you recover your M ?

It's all about identifying control...you can control only YOU....give your W a reason for her to want to recover the M...not because of a guideline you displayed.

As for POJA...work it into conversation...make sure to use "I" statements...and make sure you point out how it can build a good foundation. Remember your goal is not only to rebuild your M...but to make it a better M...for both of you.

I'm sure others will come along and backslap me about the NC letter......as always...it's just my POV.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: betrayedinjersey ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong> JAH,
[QUOTE]Actions...speak louder than words...and isn't a NC letter just words ?

If a NC letter/call is agreed upon as part of your individual recovery plan...and works for both of you...than have at it....but if it isn't POJA...how does that help you recover your M ?

It's all about identifying control...you can control only YOU....give your W a reason for her to want to recover the M...not because of a guideline you displayed.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree whith you....I think its all about actions....The problem is that i think that ww is being nice because its my b-day tomorrow and i also feel that C is still going on.....I believe (cannot confrim) that she has another cell phone. This is a theory....a very strong theroy.....

This is why im torn....i guess ill try to carry POJA conversation into our discussions and see how it goes in the mean time i will continue with Plan A. I want to give her a reason to recover the M.

BTW...where in Jersey are you? im on Long island

I'm in Hillside...a stone's throw away from Newark Airport.

As strong as your suspicions are right now.... remember...you're supersuper sensitive to even an inclination.

Your bday has nothing to do with it. Trust me. As a matter of fact...many WS seem to get aggitated with nearing holidays because of their own internal struggles..especially if the A is still in full swing. Think about the guilt they endure.

I can't emphasize enough how crucial Plan A is. It really leads back to the old cliche... kill them with kindness....right ?

Hang in there...give this some time...there isn't a quick fix..no matter how badly we hope for that. Slow and steady wins the race.

Honestly....where could she hide another cell phone ?