Does anyone here buy the WS excuse "I wasn't looking for an affair, it just happened!" or is it just me that refuses to believe that?

H tells me that he didn't "intend" for this to happen. Well, to my eyes it looks like there was a lot of intention going on... He didn't have to search out OW, he didn't have to leave me for her, he didn't have to even get married for crying out loud! Each one of those actions required an "intention" of following through with it. Perhaps he doesn't know what the actual outcome of each of those acts will be (and fair enough, because no one knows the future) but he has started them in motion with the intention of seeing where they take him.

I don't believe anything just accidentally happens. Car accidents happen because someone is driving recklessly and causes the event to occur. The same with affairs.

It just drives me crazy when I hear other WS say they weren't looking for an A and they got sideswiped by it anyway. That seems like it's blame shifting, but onto who? It's not putting the blame on the BS, but it's taking the blame off the WS because darn it, they just didn't see it coming!

Or are some WS so out of touch with themselves and reality to actually believe that their actions are purely innocent until WHAM! They're in the middle of an affair and they have no clue how they got there?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarahbellem:
I don't believe anything just accidentally happens. Car accidents happen because someone is driving recklessly and causes the event to occur. The same with affairs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not necessarily car accidents can also occur because people get distracted or if there is a mechanical breakdown.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarahbellem:
<strong> H tells me that he didn't "intend" for this to happen. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pure garbage- fog babble. Unless he was tied up and forced into the A, he *intended* to do each of the steps that led him further and further into the A. Same is true for all WS.

I did something I probably shouldn't have done: confronted the OM.

I say I shouldn't have done it because I am still seething over his characterization of the A as an "accident." It was as if he had no role in making it happen - as if the two of them were blown together by the wind or something.

One other interesting thing: I asked this guy why he would even be talking to my wife without telling me about it. I hadn't known him very long...but we had gone out a couple of times and were becoming friends (I thought).

He said "do you have any friends. I don't." Wow! Really? Hey here's a newsflash....most guys don't want to be friends with guys who want to SCREW THEIR WIVES!

Sorry..I'm still just really mad about the whole thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> Not necessarily car accidents can also occur because people get distracted or if there is a mechanical breakdown. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Distraction is considered driving recklessly as far as I'm concerned. And mechanical breakdowns, if you want to take the car analogy further, can be because of reckless behavior on the part of the owner (ignoring a mechanical problem) or the manufacturer (negligence, as well). The point is that it's up to you to be in touch with your car enough to know that it's safe to drive and to take care while driving so you don't kill yourself or anyone else. Maybe you didn't know your wheel was going to fly off your car as you're doing 90 down the interstate, but then again, you hadn't checked your wheels in ages. How would you have known a bolt may have been loose or a rod was broken?

I think it's fair to say that marriage is like this as well. We all know that a person needs to be in touch with themselves in marriage as well as with their spouse. It's when people lose touch with reality, or something... I dunno, I'm just trying to understand WS thinking here... That's when all hell breaks loose.

But the gist of what I was saying is still valid, however you want to slice it. Are some people really that out of touch with themselves to assume that they had no control over their situation? Because that's a scary thought as far as I'm concerned.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Sarahbellem ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
<strong>Pure garbage- fog babble. Unless he was tied up and forced into the A, he *intended* to do each of the steps that led him further and further into the A. Same is true for all WS. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good point. He was not forced to do anything. Right now he's saying a lot of garbage about getting married because he thought it was the right thing to do (right for whom? Me? Hell, I could have gone on my merry way at that point and never looked back, or dated him for the rest of my life and been perfectly happy. Either way, it wasn't *my* idea to get married and it certainly wasn't for my benefit). He's also saying that he feels as though his whole life has been lived trying to fulfill others' expectations of him. So, somehow that justifies this thing with the OW in his mind, because he's finally doing what's "right for him".

Um. Sure, bud.

Andrew, I'm sorry you have to deal with a close friend being the OM. That sucks, I have to say. I feel in some small way lucky that I don't know the OW from Adam. I don't know what she looks like, where she lives (only the city in which she lives, and it's a HUGE city! Rhymes with "crisco"), her personality, her likes, her dislikes... It's all a mystery to me. Of course it doesn't help me sleep any better at night because I try to imagine what she's like and just come up with someone who looks like Claudia Schiffer and has the mind of Albert Einstein and William Shakespeare. Not good for the ego! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I believe a lot of people are so sure of themselves, so arrogant or confident in their own righteousness, they don't think they need to protect themselves from an A. "It could never happen to me cause I'm stronger than the temptation. I'm better than that."

So they step on the slippery slope (friendship with an attractive and admiring person of the opposite sex), completely trusting themselves, and fall flat on their face.

For the really righteous, it is so unbelievable that they've made this colossal mistake that they justify it as a result of a defect not in themselves but in the marriage.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Loy ]</small>

Sarah,

Thanks for your comments. I now know that this guy was just pretending to be my friend becuase he was interested in my wife. I'm pretty pissed about the whole thing, obviously. And I feel like an idiot.

On your situation: would it make you feel better if you DID know some of hte details?

It's a hard one. Because...I've seen the OM up front - heck, he's sat at my dinner table! - and I can't for the life of me figure out what anyone would find remotely atractive about him. He was in the right place at the right emotional time, I guess.

So..I'm dealing not only with an affair, but with an affair with a guy who is UGLIER than I am. You talk about an ego boost! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

At least if Brad Pitt were involved, I could say..."Come on, it was Brad Pitt!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AndrewA:
<strong>

He was in the right place at the right emotional time, I guess.

So..I'm dealing not only with an affair, but with an affair with a guy who is UGLIER than I am. You talk about an ego boost! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

At least if Brad Pitt were involved, I could say..."Come on, it was Brad Pitt!" </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That last sentence actually made me laugh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In all seriousness, though, A's don't happen because of the OP's physical looks. I think you are right on target when you said that he was there at the right emotional time.

I think the term "accidental" is misleading.
I believe MOST WS can't believe they entered into an A. I agree with Loy on this.

In most cases...it's about M...a R that has gone so very far off track...that someone feels lonely...unhappy, and along comes this person that isn't involved in your day to day struggles...all the OP has to attend to is meeting those emotional needs...where there was this big open gap.

The next thing you know...POOF...they are in WAY over their heads...they live in FOG land.

I'm not saying the choices aren't Poor choices...but I can understand the fact that they weren't out seeking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Loy:
<strong> I believe a lot of people are so sure of themselves, so arrogant or confident in their own righteousness, they don't think they need to protect themselves from an A. "It could never happen to me cause I'm stronger than the temptation. I'm better than that."

So they step on the slippery slope (friendship with an attractive and admiring person of the opposite sex), completely trusting themselves, and fall flat on their face.

For the really righteous, it is so unbelievable that they've made this colossal mistake that they justify it as a result of a defect not in themselves but in the marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree and this includes BS's who later on go on to have affairs of their own and try to justify it by saying that it was their WS's fault.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

accident = by chance

Affair cannot fall into the "by chance" .... because choices are necesary to follow through the feeling with behaviors...

WHAT I suspect is meant ... the feelings were by chance... NOT the adultery it'self.

Pep

Betrayed,

I still can't agree with that philosophy. I know myself very well, and maybe that's the problem. I keep myself on a short leash and have all my life. The one time I let myself loose was when I was 19, and I cheated on my long-term BF as a result. But the whole time I knew *exactly* what I was doing. I knew I was looking for validation outside my relationship. I knew what I was doing was wrong. I knew I was going to land in some very deep doo-doo as a result of my actions, but I seriously remember telling myself "Screw what everyone else thinks, I'm living my life the way I want to and no one is gonna stop me!"

And sure enough, I messed up bad. And I paid for it, BIG TIME. So, maybe that's why I can't wrap my mind around the "accidental affair" concept, because I'm very aware of my weaknesses and take extra care not to leave an opening for something like an affair to happen. People like me get called all kinds of snide things like "teetotaler" or "stuck-up" but really, we're just cautious.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> accident = by chance

Affair cannot fall into the "by chance" .... because choices are necesary to follow through the feeling with behaviors...

WHAT I suspect is meant ... the feelings were by chance... NOT the adultery it'self.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's possible... I still don't like what it implies, though. That we cannot control our feelings and are therefore victims of them. In a way, I suppose it's true. But it's like The Man In Black said,

"I keep a close watch on this heart of mine
I keep my eyes wide open all the time
I keep the ends out for the ties that bind,
Because you're mine, I walk the line."

I heart Johnny Cash. The man said it all, right there.

(incedentally, H and I sang "Ring of Fire" at our wedding)

Anyway, that's something I think that people miss when they get married. You're supposed to guard your heart against intruders. You're supposed to "walk the line". If you can't, then why are you married?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because I'm very aware of my weaknesses and take extra care not to leave an opening for something like an affair to happen </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly, YOU are very aware...but not everyone thinks in that manner. I know a LOT of people that think for right now...with no regard to impact on future events or complications, or repercussions.

I myself KNOW the risk involved in forming close relationships...with members of the opposite sex.

That's where I erred in my thought process....I can't hold fault in my H if he doesn't have the same thought process as I do.

For me, the question boils down to how much free will people actually have.

In talking to my wife, there were clearly several times along the way that she could have backed out. She MADE the choice to continue...despite the fact that she knew it was wrong. In that sense, there is nothing "accidental" or chance-related about this.

On the other hand...the dynamic of our relationship had gotten pretty out of kilter. It's hard to see how she could have made a different choice at that particular time, given what she told me about her emotional state.

Still..that's a part of what character is all about - making the right choice at a difficult time.

Absolutely no such thing as an accidental affair IMO.

Theres not even accidental sex WITHIN MARRIAGE let alone outside it.

No excuse, no reason other than selfish self-interest.

We can't control our feelings, we can control our actions. However, so many people put all of this faith and trust in their feelings. As if feelings are pure and always right. When you use feelings as a compass for your life, you're in trouble. This why it's beneficial to have a faith in something greater than yourself, cause you can never be a perfect compass.

Our feelings are spoiled brats and they want everything their way, right now. If you have more faith in your feelings rather than your head, guess what's going to happen? That's why I think that it's the more insecure person who is more likely to fall into an A. Because they respect their feelings more than their judgment. And that's sad.

Originally posted by Sarahbellem:
That's possible... I still don't like what it implies, though. That we cannot control our feelings and are therefore victims of them.

Feelings don't need to be controlled. Behaviors and choices do.

No victum status allowed for acting out with poor choices no matter what feelings are going on.

Pep