Why is it that we seem weakest just when we are on the verge of a breakthrough? I read Bob Pure’s entry before he left for his vacation to Wales and almost cried, because that was exactly how I was feeling. My WW MIGHT have had a cathartic weekend last week, but all the revelations almost knocked me down for the count. She may feel better, but I feel defiled. Now I look at her and I don’t recognize her anymore and I find that really scary. I’m still trying to Plan A, but feeling weary today. I feel like I’ve been fighting off an anxiety attack all day. I’m really afraid that as I get more worn she will actually make a turn for the better and I won’t have anything left or I’ll start LBing and we’ll have a set back.

I still want her in my life though!!!!!!!

Zoomie

Zoomie, not sure what to say, friend. I am a little disheartened at the moment but I have learned these months that such moments pass.

We had a nice weekend in Wales. My FWW appears to be thriving in the 'plan A sanctuary' I built for her.

No judgment, no anger, no apparrent consequences of her devastation of my heart and defilement of our marriage. Just a loving, forgiving, accepting environment. All the hi-qual SF she wants, all the affection, conversation and support she wants/needs. Her ENs being met up the wazoo, my ENs , holed, sinking slowly in a stale sea, unattended.

Any consequences of her actions right now are from within her, and there seem to be fewer and fewer of those. She is getting stronger, happier and returning to "normality".

Is this it ? Are Plan A BS supposed to just suck up the pain and injustice with the objective of getting back a marriage which appears happy on a day-by-day basis but has a gaping chasm of unresolved injustice at its heart ?

Maybe my plan A has been TOO successful and FWW thinks its all OK and over now. And that I'm really not hurting. I can be right or I can be married, yes ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

When I am not pointlessly misery-@ssed like today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I believe that I need to help my FWW get to a strong enough place to begin to consider MY feelings and MY needs. I only began a discussion of how she wounded me with her and she broke down. Not ready for that yet.

She doesn't realise I am a shell of supportive husbandry today, while I bleed away my life force within.

This recovery stuff's a rollercoaster, bra' just like Plan A was 'cept we don;t get to be so detached from it now.

Be strong.

Just picture yourself in a years time doing something with your baby, happy, acknowledging the pain but moved on from it together.

Thats the picture on the box of the jigsaw I'm doing !
{{{{zoomie}}}}

Wanted to reply and try to offer some encouragement....remember, things are not always as they seem.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any consequences of her actions right now are from within her, and there seem to be fewer and fewer of those. She is getting stronger, happier and returning to "normality".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob, the consequences that are within the FWW are the worst kind. Do you not want those to become fewer and fewer? I know that for myself, as long as they are there, it is difficult if not impossible to move forward.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this it ? Are Plan A BS supposed to just suck up the pain and injustice with the objective of getting back a marriage which appears happy on a day-by-day basis but has a gaping chasm of unresolved injustice at its heart ?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear a lot of this on the board, and I do understand, as much as I can without having been in your shoes. But....I often wonder, just exactly what would it take for BS to feel as though justice has been served? What would a FWS need to do to "even the score"? Exactly how can we "atone" for our sins? What specifically would you like to see?
I, and probably most FWW's out there, understand that it is impossible to make up for what we did. And as long as we feel that our BS wants some restitution, the marriage will be a battlefield instead of a sanctuary. The marriage will not be what EITHER of us wants.
I can also tell you that even though it may seem we don't "notice" your pain, or it seems that we think everything is over and ok now, we don't. We do the best we can, realizing it can never make up for the pain we caused, on edge most of the time because we are afraid what we ARE doing isn't going to be good enough...and it isn't, even if you don't tell us so.
My husband didn't necessarily try to "suck up" his pain, but neither did he hang it over my head or "expect" me to take it away. When he was in pain, he didn't hide it. It's ok to show your pain, but don't turn it into anger. It becomes less effective when you do that.

I think you're both doing a really good job, and believe me, your spouses are completely humbled and thankful for everything that you have done and for the men that you have shown them you are.

Onlywords

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: onlywords ]</small>

OW, thanks for your insight, really, I reread my post and it does look like I want 'restitution' from my FWW. I don't. I just crave some recognition that she knows the pain she has caused me and some honesty.

I would feel justice fulfilled if she were to say one day:

" I knowingly devastated your whole being.I deliberately violated our marriage bed. I utterly regret what I did, I hate what I did and if I had a time machine I would undo what I did. It was not accidental, it was my choice to have the affair. You are not a consolation prize just because OM blew me out, you are the love of my life and I want to love you and be loved by you for the rest of our lives. Thank you for building me a 'plan A' nest to come back to when I deserved it so little. I recognise that apart from the affair I have many behaviours in our M that I must address as you are doing in order to recreate our lives in a happy, Godly, sustainable way."

She won't ever say all that because some of it just isn't true, not now at least.

I AM a consolation prize right now as FWW only started to work on the M once OM confirmed he wanted no more to do with her. I deserve far fare more than that. I deserve to be adored by someone, as I once was by my FWW. I wil NOT be "tolerated" as a convenience.

Y'see OW the feelngs you cite may well run deep within my FWW as you suggest but they're no use to me or anyone inside her.

She is behaving as if absolutely nothing is wrong. There is no sign at all that she is contrite, regretful, committed, nothing.

Maybe I want to much.

Thanks again OW.

Bob,

Wow, I see how hard this must be for you. I don't think you want too much....not at all. To want any less would mean you don't care that much! Given time, she will see that. I wasn't sure if your D-day was April or June, but regardless, it hasn't been that long since then. My D-day was February and until a week or so ago, I was still in the "fog" to a certain degree. It had gotten less and less over the months, but there was a lingering fog nevertheless. Perhaps that is still affecting your wife. That is not something we FWW's like to admit, and even less, show. It is selfish of us to be in a fog. We know it, but feel powerless against it. I hated to admit my feelings to my husband because it was like adding insult to injury, but I found that I had to speak honestly about it or he would imagine all sorts of horrible things! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
It is easier to pretend nothing is wrong. And a whole lot less painful. That is definitely a human tendency! But I agree with you that it won't do anyone any good to keep it inside. Perhaps she is waiting until she is sure that the sanctuary is "for real". I don't know, I can't speak for her...only guess.
One thing is certain....it takes TIME. Probably your love and commitment will have to carry both of you for a while, and that is most difficult to do when you aren't given a guarantee as to the outcome! All I can offer you is the stories of those who have gone before you, been where you are, persisted, and triumphed! It can and DOES happen. Even though I see you have your "down" times, I can also see that you have what it takes to make it through. And I think your wife will "catch up" to you eventually.
You mentioned that you brought up your pain and your wife broke down. That shows me that she DOES have remorse. Can you imagine being in her shoes? I have said before that I would rather have been the one betrayed than the betrayer. But then I can't say that with 100%certainty!

I wish you the best.

Onlywords

OW D-day was only July, so things have already moved on very quickly for us so far. I know she needs time and so do I.

I just hope I don't emotionally 'bleed' to death waiting thats all.
FWW was certainly suspicious to begin with that i really was welcoming of her.

Time is needed, and my choking down my hurt until such times as it can be processed by FWW.

I know that. Just need to moan occasionally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Almost everyone else on this board is in a worse sitch than I am, and I know it.

Bob, Zoomie - these feelings are NORMAL. They are part of the process. You have to remind yourselves that the AVERAGE recovery time takes 2 YEARS, not a few weeks or months.

You will also likely hit a time that occurs usually about 6-12 months into recovery when you are believing your spouse and beginning to "get comfortable" that your recovery is real. THAT is when your "control" begins to break and you begin to feel all the anger and resentment that you've kept in check and you feel "justified" and "safe" that you can "let it out." The caution is that, as with most things, there is a "right way" and a "wrong way" to let it out. So prepare yourself now by thinking about how to have a "hard, perhaps 'downer' type" discussion of those feelings. It is NOT about accusations, it is about how you are feeling, how far you've both come, and honesty so that your spouse knows the "problem" is you, not her. Men in particular (I know it's true of me) have a harder time talking about their feelings than most women. Men tend to get defensive and even angry when they have to admit to how they feel and hurt. Somehow it doesn't seem "manly" to talk about our "feminine" side. But remember, God is faithful in all things. Remember that as you both learn to walk closer with Christ, you WILL automatically walk closer with your spouse. In obedience to God's commands is found putting His will first, is found the ability to be a "servant" to each other as Christ came to "serve." Love is not a feeling first, it is a command...it is something we DO first, not feel first. The "feeling" follows the "doing," not the other way around.

.........God
........../\
........./--\
......../----\
Wife/____\Husband


With God as the center and the focus of our life and marriage, we WILL draw closer to our spouses as we draw closer to God in Christ-likeness.

God bless.

Zoomie & BP,

I know how you guys feel... believe me... Rebuilding your M is hard work...

You want your W to come to you and say how sorry they were for ripping your guts out... you want validation that you DID fight for your M... you want to know that they understand just how much you've been wounded...

It's easy to get discouraged when your wife isn't responding as "quickly" as you'd like... but stay the course... Love you W, honor her, cherish her, and I think that you'll find that in the end, your W will come around and give you the affirmation that you so need right now...

Hang in there! It will get better... (and BTW, I'm proud of you guys! It takes a special person to do what you're doing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Thanks people, I think zoomie and I aren;t looking for pats on the back, just to say how we feel in a non-judgmental place where we can't hurt our changes of recovery.

Zoomie's doing great. My kids lives say we're doing OK too.

You guys are a walking testament to how its WORTH us putting in the hard yards now.

Don;t make 'em less hard though.

And I do love her. So very much. I will be sad if I cannot get past this betrayal because I do love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her. Just not at any price, thats all

{{{mb}}}

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by onlywords:
<strong> You mentioned that you brought up your pain and your wife broke down. That shows me that she DOES have remorse. Can you imagine being in her shoes? I have said before that I would rather have been the one betrayed than the betrayer. But then I can't say that with 100%certainty!

I wish you the best.

Onlywords </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Zoomie and Bob- this is so true. You may not see it (yet) but your wives are hurting terribly. I think onlywords is right that you will see this as time passes. You both amaze me with your courage - and your love. God bless you both.

You may not see it (yet) but your wives are hurting terribly

No, can't see that right now. She is getting on with her life with all the joy she can. Who can blame her ? Who would choose to be miserable if they could be happy ? To some extent its a vindication of my Plan A - after all I tried to build her a welcoming life to come back to, and it seems I was successful.

I want happiness for her - for us both, but I cannot be happy until we have examined the A together and agreed its meaning and outcomes to us.

FWW is nowhere near that right now.

With kids involved I have no choice but to suck it up and keep plan a-ing. And thats fine. I been to worse places in the last four months...a lot worse.

I only pray that God will give us a time when we can discuss this stuff.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>
I want happiness for her - for us both, but I cannot be happy until we have examined the A together and agreed its meaning and outcomes to us. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob- remind me please. Are you in MC?

No SadFWW. There are NO pro marriage MC in UK.

NONE. NADA .

And even if so FWW wouldn't do it yet. As soon as she will I hope to do phone C with Penny Tupy or the Harleys.

So I'm on my own with my books, my prayers and you lot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just got a call from OM GF. It was saddening - more A facts from OM via GF - but the important thing was it occurs to me that although d-day was in July, NC was only properly established on 16th Sept. after he told her to f'k off when she called him.

Thats a teeny amount of time. My FWW must still be withdrawing and it is hugely early days. My expectations are too high, I must support FWW through withdrawal for a while longer yet before real recovery begins.

I need to be stiffer than this for much much longer.

Thanks all.

Zoomie and Bob,

I have to respectfully disagree. It is my opinion that if you continue to hurt and just stuff it or ignore it, that it will be harmful to you in one way or another. Pain and anger that is not dealt with finds a way of coming out, and if you don't LB then it will ooze out onto co-workers or friends, or it will raise your blood pressure or give you heart palpitations.

In recovery, the goal is not to "make the WS comfortable." What she did was uncomfortable and that is just a fact, not a judgment. Consequently, in my opinion, if you "control" your pain and pretend, then you are not being any more transparently honest than she is! Yes, she may not be able to take much, and yes, she may still be withdrawing, but pretending communicates via actions that you do not respect her enough to be transparently honest because "you think she can't handle it"...and the lack of transparency is a portion of what started all of this A business!

Soooo...may I suggest that rather than feeling misery-a$$ed and "controlling" that for the sake of your "too delicate" FWW's, that you share SOME of your misery and pain using "I" statements? When people are first in recovery and are asking questions about "when" and "how often", sometimes the WS feels interrogated, and the BS feels like the WS clams up and is hiding something...so I advise people to agree to ONE QUESTION a day. This is making progress--the WS does not feel like they are held under the bare lightbulb--and the BS gradually learns about what is bugging them. It is SLOW, but it is moving forward.

Same here. I suggest that you two both let your WW's see a little of your pain. Slowly. Continuing to contain it will continue the harm to you, and that is not healthy physically or emotionally. Continuing to contain it is also roughly the equivalent to lying to your WW because it communicates "everything's fine!" So...start with, "I'm having a bad day today. I feel a little insecure and knocked over. Can you please do (this) and (that) for me? It would sure help a lot" AND NOT VERY MUCH MORE!! Do not go on and on...do not open the floodgates...do not explain a lot of WHY you are feeling insecure. Just communicate that this is where you are and what they could do that would help you--and ask for that if they are willing.

I'll give you an example: "(WW), I'm hurting today. I don't feel strong or secure, and I just feel like I have been fighting off an anxiety attack all day long. Could we please take 15 minutes and just hug on the couch? I think I'd feel a little better if I was held."

Please note, that request does not ask the WW to "make you feel...." because they can not make you feel anything. You choose that! But, sometimes an action can be encourage the environment of soothing or comforting, huh?

Also please note that it is a request, not a commandment. WW is free to say no, but if they do, ask if they have an alternative that WOULD work for them. For example, WW might say no to hugging on the couch for 15 minutes because the couch is uncomfortable, won't fit both of you, or they aren't quite ready for 15 minutes...and they could suggest a spot they like better or a timeframe they DO feel ready for (yeah, they're willing to do it, but nope the way you suggested was not quite cool with them).

My point here is to model a respectful REQUEST, not a demand, and to model not only personal responsibility but also transparent honesty.


CJ

FNCJ I hurt and stuffed it all through the 3 months of plan A with only desperately tightly controlled expressions of pain to FWW. It worked well, maybe I have gotten used to bottling up?

Your advice is interesting though, I will consider it. Though I may be slightly complying toi it anyway - what do you think of this :

I have already told FWW today that I am hurting: I said " despite my great care for you, the hurt overwhelms me sometimes" She said " I'm so sorry". And no more.

No way would she answer any of my Qs regarding the A right now. She knows I am hurt, she knows I care enough to stick around and build a plan A sanctuary. With less than a month of NC in place I think that not so bad.

What U think ?

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What U think ?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think your a dork. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Was you talking to me?

Zoomie hang in there, follow Bob's thread, read his everyday struggle, his up and down on the coaster, and see where he is today. He is reaping the benefits of his determination to Plan A to the best of his ability.

I have always been a doter, a giver, after DDAY, my H became that, filling me like you are with your W. Bob I wasn't able to return it.

I loved him, I always did, never did I think I didn't, but I was incapable of showing him anything extra. I was just here, kind, and pleasant, but not joyous or overly loving.

I'm just now about a month into being able to love him, to fill him up. I still struggle with it.

What I'm saying is, Bob it will come. I'm ready right now to be over this crap myself, but I'm just doing the best I can, time is a healing thing.

Your W does not think it is all over, she will talk to you. You have nothing good to say about the A right now, and she has nothing bad to say about the A right now. It would be a LB to discuss it.

I can remember my H telling me, I just hope you can hate him like I do one day. I said to him, ST how can I hate him, he is truly a nice man.

One month after that statement, I felt totally different.

Give her time, you will know when she is ready. I'm guessing she will start pouring it out, and you won't even have to ask. In fact I had to be careful when I was ready, I wasn't sure my DH was ready to hear it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> KY

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]</small>

KY what a sage post that is.

You sum up the sitch perfectly here :

Your W does not think it is all over, she will talk to you. You have nothing good to say about the A right now, and she has nothing bad to say about the A right now. It would be a LB to discuss it.

She is still grieving the loss of her "true love" and confused over her reawakening love for me. she probably feels pretty precarious too, knowing that if I don't want to rebuild, she has no OM to fall back on.

I must continue to love her, support her and be patient for her. I'll keep my wound boun dup for a while longer.

As I told FNCJ earlier, she knows when sadness washes over me. Details can wait.

I love her, KY. You've gone on about my bravery and stuff but in truth I have a huge, inexplicable love for the girl and her silly freckly nose, tiny feet and wayward hair.

I'm not sure she could do anything to completely destroy my love for her. Plan A/love & support if my DUTY to this woman I love so hard, do you understand that ? DUTY. I can't abandon her just because she broke my heart and almost killed me.

Its all so very hard but the thought that I have a chance of spending the rest of my life at this woman's side fills me with hope and strength, God help me.

KY you are always interesting, sometimes inspirational. This was a truly 'spirational post.

Thank you. I will keep you posted as to how my FWW develops over the weeks & months.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You've gone on about my bravery and stuff but in truth I have a huge, inexplicable love for the girl </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your love for this girl is beautiful, and your fight to regain your M is very brave.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not sure she could do anything to completely destroy my love for her. Plan A/love & support if my DUTY to this woman I love so hard, do you understand that ? DUTY. I can't abandon her just because she broke my heart and almost killed me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With tears down my face, I absolutely understand this. My H has shown me the same unconditional love that you are showing your W. He loves me, and wants me for the rest of his life even though I betrayed him. I adore him, and I'm taking him up on this blessed gift he is giving me.

KY the always interesting, and sometimes inspirational.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> (did you mean flaky?)

Hi Bob, Kyellow, and gang,
This thread has been enlightnening to say the least. My WW has been a bit of a hag this weekend, but the NC seems to be holding fast. We went for a walk yesterday and she didn't have a lot of good things to say about the OM. I figure this is one of two things, either she doesn't believe what she is saying but it is her way of coping, or she is starting to feel like she was used. I hope it is the later, but no matter, she is trying to stay with NC and says it is less stressful than living two lives.

On the walk as well she said she didn't want to work on the marriage. Just as my heart was sinking into a knot she said why, which gave me hope actually. She said she had strayed so far from God and what she knew to be right that she couldn't begin to look at me and our relationship until her relationship with God was mended. I can deal with that.

I guess my main goal right now is to continue Plan A as best as I can, and help in any way to make sure the OM is totally history.

Bob, I believe you and I are emotionally wiped out. Wish we could get together for a cup of coffee or a beer (whichever you like) and cheer each other up. My wife is a scared because she recognizes she is totally inthe taking mode right now. I told her I wasn't expecting anything from her for months to come, right now I just wanted her emotionally and spiritually healthy again.

We are not in MC yet. The counsellor she was visiting (not a MC) actually was trying to get ther to dump me and the OM and strike out on her own. I just found this out yesterday. So my trust of counsellors has been shaken.

I'm still hanging in there. This trial will be my testimony when I come through it because when it is over, married or not, I WILL HAVE MY INTEGRITY, RESPECT, and CHARACTER INTACT!!!!!

Love to you all and God Bless you for responding to this post,
In Christ, Zoomie