Z - I have a thread out that has some great advice on how to regain my walk with God, maybe you could print some of the post and let your W read them.

I'm struggling with that like she is. I was over whelmed with what people wrote to me. It is really a great thread, I would love for your to share it with her.

MB hug to you {{{Z}}}
Not the same as IRL and not the same coming from a complete stranger, but I always feel good after receiving one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Zoomie, you are right., I am emotionally wiped out. And we don;t get a day off. Not for years it seems. * sigh *

Even when I go to Germany later this week I will be worrying over NC so even that won;t be a break from it.

Relentless care. I hope I'm strong enough.

Time for a carlsberg or two I think.

Be strong br'a. We gotta.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Kyellow, I am sooooo very grateful that you are writing on this thread (same to you Onlywords!) because I'm trying so hard to get to know my wife again, to get inside her head so to speak. I'm not looking for dirt or anything to hold over head, but just want to know what she may be thinking so that i would know to give her a hug or excuse myself to another room so she can be alone. I, like Bob, probably didn't realize how much my queen meant to me until I was faced with losing her. She can't understand why I am still around. i have had to reassure her several times this week that i would not seek out an affair of my own to "get back" at her. I actually broke away from MB theory last week and said I was thinking of leaving her. It was just a moment of spite, and I hate myself for saying it. I asked for her forgiveness yesterday, i got no reply. She was brought to believe that men always leave, i want to CRUSH that idea right out of her head if for no other reason than I want my 11yr old daughter to see that a real man will fight to the bitter end to save not just a marriage, but a family.

Kyellow, Bob, et al, I sincerely hope for your full marriage recovery and that the years ahead will be camelot for all of you.

Zoomie, while I was hurting tonight , my FWW was out at karate. I timed PERFECTLY the following:

I lit tea-lights all the way up our stairs to the bathroom and lit the bathroom with tea lght candles too.

Ran a luscious hot bath with expensive bath oils in.

Poured a large glass of GOOD Australian chardonnay.

Put some italian chicken and flat bread in the oven.

FWW got home from karate expecting me to sulk. Instead got a lovely kiss, and a gorgeous, luxurious bath. She almost went to sleep in the bath it was so nice.

She gave me a kiss, a light one, when she came downstairs.

"thanks" she said " I needed that".

She ate the chicken and flat bread and enjoyed it, then finished the wine. She looked at me in a way I can only describe as lovingly.

I made my baby feel good when she expected me to make her feel bad. That makes ME feel good.

That makes US feel good. It IS good.

Jesus, I love this girl. You gave her to me 18 years ago, let me keep her , Lord, along with her love.

Thats all I ask. Amen.

hi Zoomie and rest.

Thanks so much for a thread that came right when I needed it!

Z- geez, do I identify with your last post! - like you were at my house last night!

I am constantly amazed at the wealth of emotion, self-awareness and wisdon from so many of you!

But mostly, it is the generosity.....

Zoomie:

I'm paraphrasing here, but you wrote that this weekend your FWW "did not have many good things to say about OM" and I hope I can help ya with that one. At this point, your FWW is struggling to find a way to "save face" and one way that she can do that within herself is to think of herself as somewhat of a "victim" of a man who took advantage of her. If he pursued her aggressively or lied to get what he wanted, she can still have some self-respect and honor in her own eyes if she views herself a little bit as being the victim and him being the (insert expletive name here). You already mentioned that she has low self-esteem...so let me remind you that means that her view of herself is low. So, she is trying to not feel so bad about herself.

You also wrote that your FWW "doesn't want to work on marriage until she gets her relationship with God right." Personally, I think this is encouraging. Zoomie, even without you, your FWW is an entirely independent individual who has to have somewhat of her own identity and morals and values so that she can function in a healthy way. She NEEDS to have a right relationship with God in order for that fist in the pit of her stomach to unknot. Right now, inside herself, she feels physically SICK all the time because she is not in-line with her True Self, and her True Self is being the woman God wants her to be. The quicker she can start to get back on track with her True Self--the quicker she will feel better because she will be the woman, wife, and mother that God created her to be!

So, I know you are already an exhausted hero, but give your wife the time and safe space to get right with God and spend some time with Him.

********************
Zoomie and Bob:

You guys are cute. I'm not minimizing your emotional exhaustion, but come talk to me when you've been at this five years and your WS has divorced you and won't consider turning their life around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I am a grizzled old veteran, and I learned an EXTREMELY important lesson years ago. Sadly, yep, it can take YEARS which seems like ETERNITY doesn't it? But...you do not always need to be moving forward or making progress. Sometimes it is sufficient to take a break/rest and just not backslide. For example, even the human body of a child does not grow ALL the time. As evidenced by their eating patterns, they are STARVING one week and will eat you out of house and home like locust (growing week)--then they will be indifferent to food of any kind and will throw out perfectly good mashed potatoes because they're "not huuuuuuuuuuungry" (NOT growing week). heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> In the natural occurrence of a growing human body, the body does not grow all the time...it grows and then does not shrink. It rests for a little while until the next growth spurt. Then it grows and does not shrink....

Same for you two men. You do not always have to be saving your marriage or reconciling your wandering spouse or working on your psychological issues or identifying your mental health problems or even going to counseling!! Sometimes, you can just put it down for a night or two, pop in "Blazing Saddles" or "Animal House", and BELLY LAUGH...or play pool...or roll down a hill with your kids and laugh at the leaves in your hair...or let your dog lick your face ALL OVER because it's silly. I know. You are big, strong, he-men--much to manly to roll down a hill!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But when you are emotionally exhausted, it is time to emotionally REST. Take care of yourself. Allow FWW's to love you if they can and if they can't, allow your KIDS to love you or your DOG or your family or your best friend. CARE FOR YOURSELF. It's okay.

********************
Bob:

I am going to show you something I rarely show anyone--a chink in my armor. When I read your posts about loving your wife, I am at once very proud of you and ... well ... to be honest I am jealous and sad. I'm a lady just like any other, wishing I was loved by some hero, and to be blunt, this is one of those nights when I just feel so ANGRY and sad that my exH did not/does not love me!! I may be an old pro, but late at night my brain still occasionally wanders to "What is it about me that he didn't love ME like that? Why wasn't I valuable to him?" I will never know.

I'm telling you because it's the truth--I'm a little jealous. I'm not proud of myself that I'm jealous but I am a bit, and I suspect that maybe there are some other folks who occasionally feel the same way and may find it encouraging to know that it's normal..that not too many will say it out loud, but lots of us feel it. Jealous that our spouses could just throw us away when guys like you will just be there through it all and behave so lovingly in the truest sense of the word.

I think maybe you hit a nerve, you know? The whole candles and bath and just all of it. I was FAITHFUL for crying out, and I wasn't treated that well!! I'm about 35% jealous--55% angry--and the other 10% is sad. I did love him; he just didn't love me.

WAAAAAAAAAA!!

Okay...I feel better. Thanks! Here's the point fellas. You are doing very well. Keep using "I feel..." statements and being transparent with your FWW's. Be a spiritual leader where you can be by modeling mature behavior. Swing on the swingset and rest for a while. And, send a joke to poor, outcast, MB'ers who write to you and almost 3am in the morning!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


CJ

FNCJ thats the first 2x4 I've ever had that says I need to do less ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are right. We are very early in recovery so I still ACTIVELY perform every action, I cannot yet trust my instinct, but I must relax, you are right. I DO enjoy my kids and despite being a big hairy bloke I LOVE rolling down the hills with my kids ! You should've seen us splashing in puddles in Wales at the weekend ! But its teh emotional stress thats debilitating.

Your reilience over time shames my meagre efforts its true. And also puts it into context.

In truth, theres every hope that FWW and I will recover mutual love enough to rebuild our M. I fear to state that we WILL do so, because I can't give my FWW permission to control my happiness and future again as I did pre-A. But its looking good, maybe better than anyone else on this MB.

I need to breathe and relax a bit. Thanks ! You have given me permission to do that ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Re: your chink, I obviously had no intention of hurting you, sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
In truth I don't know where my love for FWW comes from other than God. He alone knows how she hurt me, and failed me as a W recently but I only have to look at her sleeping and my heart melts.

I want to protect her, provide for her, hold her and be held by her until I die. I can't explain it, but I am thankful for it. I hope my fww will be thankful one day too.

You will find someone who feels that way about you, you know that.

{{{fncj}}}

Guys

My heart aches for you, because I know how unfair it seems that you - the wounded party - have to be the strong one for so long. And not to be discouraging, but 2 years after d-day my H can still not deal with my pain. At least not directly, but I've learned that he tries to comfort me in other ways, for example in helping me with practical problems that before he would have disdained. I'm slowly learning that I'll have to look for his remorse in ways other than I expect and want. (Personally I'd settle for him falling to his knees and sobbing 'How could I do this to a wonderful woman like you? How could I imagine I felt anything for that manipulative, selfish old hag when I has soft, lovely you at home? The scales have fallen from my eyes, and I need to apologise to you for inflicting that disgusting old tramp on you and our family. I can't believe you haven't taken a bread-knife to her! Or to me! I am SO lucky!' Instead, he washes the bedlinen and rubs my shoulders.)

I also think that, just after d-day, there is a kind of euphoria in many WSs. Sneaking around is difficult and uncomfortable; lying makes you fel bad about yourself. Getting rid of all that baggage is a relief on its own - even if they miss the OP. But it's a kind of fragile euphoria - as if they've gotten away with something that they shouldn't have - and they're aware that you could shatter it at any moment. So any hint that you're unhappy presses their panic button. It takes a long time before both of you have any degree of confidence in each other - the BS that the WS won't rush back to the OP, and the WS that the BS won't just dump them as they're fully entitled to do. It takes TIME.

In the meantime, I think that they have to know that you are unhappy, but that you are managing your unhappiness for the greater good of the marriage. Tell them that you are hurt, but reassure them that you love them and intend to stay. That's what they're scared of - that you'll leave them, and your hurt makes them think your leaving is inevitable.

Ask to be held when you're feeling down. This gives them back some confidence that they still have emotional value to you. Don't make my mistake, and use their softness as an excuse to pile in with 'reasons why I'm miserable' - which only puts them on the defensive. They've spent a long time in the shadows, weakening their own self-esteem, and it will take time for them to get to a place of strength where they can deal with your pain.

Bob - Relate is not pro-marriage, but it's not anti-marriage either. We had several consellors before we found one we were both happy with, and the really useful thing was that it was a neutral, refereed forum for us to get our issues off our chests. I do think you need SOMETHING - there's a reason your wife strayed,and you may not get to it just talking to each other.

Must go - work calls.


TA

TA thats insightful.

Regarding relate, I spoke to 2 Relate councellors and I was deeply unimpressed. I dont need a sounding board I need counselling.

Yes my FWW strayed for a reason, and I'd like help with defining that. Its pretty evident to both my FWW and myself the situation we made that made her vulnerable to an affair, but counselling would be very helpful. When FWW is up to it I hope to work by phone with The Harleys or Penny Tupy.

I won't waste more time with relate based on my experience.

Bob,

How's the other side of the pond tonight? Here in the states it's about 8:30am and a cool, bright fall morning perfect for sipping coffee in my slippers.

So, you wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right. We are very early in recovery so I still ACTIVELY perform every action, I cannot yet trust my instinct, but I must relax...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bear in mind that I've sort been where you are. You've read about and studied new behaviors, actually practiced more healthy methods of relating, but it's not a habit yet and it still takes considerable energy to remember to do it "the new way." So give yourself a little credit and take one day or part of a day or a few hours each day so that you can stay at this for the long, long haul. If you think of "I must relax" as yet another assignment, it will have opposite the desired effect, so give yourself permission to have a chink or two, to have a weak moment or two, to let people see your chink, and be a little kind and gentle to yourself--even if you are big and hairy. heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I DO enjoy my kids and despite being a big hairy bloke I LOVE rolling down the hills with my kids ! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I bet the hair on your back snatches up a lot of fallen leaves as you roll! (sticking out my tongue in a silly girl kinda way)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should've seen us splashing in puddles in Wales at the weekend ! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay--I can picture it. Bigfoot loose in Wales flooding whole tons while he plays in puddles.

In real life, one of the things I really do enjoy the most is taking just a moment to let the kid-side out and not taking life quite so seriously, and puddles are a wonderful place to do this. I don't care if it is 60 degrees out and coolish--off come the shoes and socks--in jump the bare feet--and if the edges of my jeans get a little wet, I remember the excellent puddle ALL DAY.

Another rather fun thing I tried and thoroughly enjoyed was eating spaghetti with my fingers with the kids. Now, it may sound messy, but in real life it was quite silly and quite a lot easier to get the pasta from the dish into my mouth. My fingers needed washing, but my face, neck and shirt did not. heehee.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But its the emotional stress thats debilitating.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So true! The little playtime breaks can help, but you tell me Bob. What have you done in the past that has felt like emotional de-stressing? What has worked for you and felt emotionally edifying and relaxing? Remember, you are responsible for choosing your emotions, so don't give me the "I felt emotionally relaxed when my wife...". Instead, give me what YOU can do for yourself to emotionally rest. Read the bible? Pray? Sip one cup of tea alone (or in my case, coffee)?

Personally, I find it emotionally refreshing to serve others. When I feel frazzled and dumped on and unsupported...I head straight to the women's shelter and volunteer or head straight to the homeless shelter and serve dinner and talk to them. It gets your head on pretty quick AND it's useful/helpful to them! I also stop praying for myself, my kids and my family, and start REALLY praying for my friends and what THEY need. In fact, I keep a whole notebook of MB people and where they're at and what they need in prayer, so all I gotta do is pull out that notebook and think of others.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your resilience over time shames my meagre efforts its true. And also puts it into context.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you (and Zoomie) get this--I wasn't trying to shame you. I'm just so proud of you both I'm busting a gut! But by the same token, this is a long-haul, long-term thing. I know that YEARS sounds like eternity at times, and I can so clearly remember thinking, "I'm not sure I can do this for YEARS. I think it might kill me!" That's why the rest periods are so important--so you CAN do it for YEARS and probably for the rest of your life! If you look at the big picture outcome, investing a few years now to make a great marriage for the next 50 years is a good investment.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Re: your chink, I obviously had no intention of hurting you, sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you had no intention of hurting me, so there really is no need to apologize. It has been my experience that some/many BS's go through phases of being angry with their WS's, of being jealous of friends' marriages, of being angry with God and wondering why He took away their marriage--all pretty normal stuff considering. Yet for the most part, these are the darker side of being a BS and few will admit they feel like that and even fewer will talk about it. It's acceptable to be angry with the WS--it's not acceptable to be angry with God or "be jealous of others"--so it's also stuffed/avoided/ignored.

See?? Just practicing the same transparent honesty that I preach. Not every aspect of me is a cheerful, beautiful, wonderful person so I'm showing a bit of my darker side because in reality it's there. If I didn't say, "Hey, I'm a little jealous!" I would be communicating that I didn't trust you to handle it...right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So if I expect that kind of behavior of YOU (be transparent to your wife) then I need to hold myself to at least that same standard, don't I?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In truth I don't know where my love for FWW comes from other than God. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DING! DING! DING! Tell the man what he's won. I know exactly what you mean. You are a human man loving above and beyond human capacity--thus there is no other possible solution other than that it must be love from God! I think we should thank Him for that neverending well of love that He has allowed us to tap into!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You will find someone who feels that way about you, you know that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To be honest, I do not know that. At this time, it seems that my mission here on earth is to keep doing God's will for my life and be my kids' mom and raise them in a healthier environment. My exH is not a well man (physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually) and I suspect that I am to carry on with my life but continue to demonstrate godly love towards the father of my children.


CJ

FNCJ, another insightful post thanks !

Its been a gray autumn day here in England, just like we have seemingly 220 times per year ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm a bit sad today, but I've deliberately not been doing anything 'relationship'. Worked from my home office, took FWW out for a perfectly pleasant chinese buffet lunch, played with the kids, cooked dinner and sat watching TV for a while with my baby.

She is feeling low as her body seems to have quit since the A ended ! (plumbing issues, she has put on some weight, aches and pains, a case of cellulitis on her nose, tiredness - NO she isn't pregnant !).

I've just held her hand and stroked it watching the TV. She liked that. Been quite affectionate today in fact.

I need to talk but not now while she is low. Its only been four weeks since last contact with OM, I'll give her some space. Its not as if life is unpleasant while I wait. Were it not for the spiteful memory of the A, we'd have a perfectly acceptable marriage right now, day by day. Needs to be much much better though.

I can't remember when I have been emotionally relaxed before that didn't involve my FWW. She has been my quiet place, my earthly refuge all these years.

I need to find a new refuge to move forward with.

I'm not sure I'll ever be emotionally relaxed again.

Her betrayal of me is worse because of how much I love her FNCJ. I have never loved her any less than I do now. She knows that too. She just 'got used' to me always being there and attentive, providing etc etc.

I still can't believe she did this thing, raped me via our marriage vows. I almost wish I could hate her - life would be easier - but I can't.

I am slipping back into work now, and will travel a little again soon. I hope she will miss me.

She clearly has times when she loves me romantically, and times when that passes. In time I hope the 'downtime' will be less than the 'uptime'.

I intend no big R stuff this week. I have some work to do, I have the gym, soem gardening to do and we have a Sikh wedding to attend on Saturday ! I am going to release my care for a few days and try to breathe a little. Concentrate on my kids. FWW is a big girl, if she needs me to help her with her sadness, she knows I am there. I tell her every day.

I wonder and pray if we will be OK my FWW and I. We have better indicators that almost anyone on these pages, but there is so far to go. I need to start enjoying life in the present not the past or the future.

Thanks FNCJ. I need your posts today. {{{fncj}}}

It is really pretty amazing. I think about or experience something here (Hawaii) and Bob is writing about it in the UK before I can say anything. Weird. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Brother Bob, you hang in there. This has been a wonderful thread for me. I have found common ground with others and know now that I can get through this. Your love for your wife describes just how I feel about my lady. I woke up in the middle of the night Sunday while she was sound asleep, she had kicked the covers off and wasn’t wearing a whole lot. I just gazed at her for awhile and couldn’t believe how beautiful she was, or how much I still love her. I can’t imagine my life without her in it…and yes she has been my comfort and refuge for almost 13 years and now I can’t go to her for awhile. The sex with the OM is tough enough to swallow; having lost my confidant for the time being is far worse. I don’t confide in her anymore and that stinks because she is my best friend among everything else she is to me. I believe that it is all temporary though, and like you said, I envision a year from now being in a relationship far better than the one I’m in now or have been. I would like to put her on disregard and leave, but it just isn’t in me. She’s hurting. She’s confused. She’s lost and dumbfounded. Maybe for the first time in her life she NEEDS me. I will continue to be there for her, and so will you Bob.

Yesterday was the first day that we didn’t mention the A or the OM; a worthy milestone that was accomplished quite unintentionally. I guess neither of us felt the need or maybe the thoughts just didn’t cross our minds for a change. Bob, I believe we are a lot alike, so I would like to encourage you that IT WILL work and YOU WILL make it and don’t be too self-deprecating…your pain is by no means lighter than someone else’s just because your situation looks more hopeful. Maybe your pain is actually worse, because it seems so ludicrous that it ever happened in the first place and it seems like there is absolutely no reason why it should have happened. I know that is how I feel. Good job the other night with candles and all. My wife wanted to go to an airshow. We did and she enjoyed it. She said all the he-ho military stuff was kind of sexy. As far as the wife’s plumbing…been there, done that…my babe’s breaks down whenever she is under stress. If I’d paid better attention that would have been a clue to me when I left this past summer for a trip and knew an “old friend” was going to be in town while I was away. Her condition had flared up and I attributed it to other things. She knew what was coming and admitted as much to me recently. Hindsight is 20/20. The affair may have passed by without my ever finding out except the idiot was taken by my wife’s beauty and brains and proposed marriage…can you believe it???? It has been very confusing ever since.

I see better days ahead and they aren’t too far way. For now I leave all of you this quote:

“If fear is a condition of courage, so too is love. It is love that makes us willing to sacrifice, love that gives us courage…Love makes courage necessary.”

Bob Pure, it is a great thing that God has given you an undying love for the wife of your youth. He has blessed me in the same way and it blows my mind. God Bless you Bob, brighter days are ahead!!!!!!

Zoomie one of the the main sources of hope to me in this whole mess is how, despite MY pain being UTTERLY uniquely bitter and my FWWs Affair being a UNIQUE and BEAUTIFUL love story that can NEVER end, affairs of similar types follow an almost unwavering template.

The Harleys are so accurate in their forecasts of events and behaviours its almost scary.

You and I have similar situations it seems, and we are both loving silverbacks who were really truly sideswiped by our WWs affairs.

Like illnesses,affair & recovery symptoms seem to respond to proven treatments. You and I must continue our 'proven treatment' to heal our M of the poison injected by the affair.

Thanks for your encouragement. I DO feel a little discouraged, but I am backing off and breathing deep and easy for a while. Attack from OM seems unlikely, and time, love and tenderness seems to be what FWW needs for a while longer. I can do that without deconstructing every evidence to ascertain my next step.

Soon I will have confidence that my baby is committed to our M out of care for me , not desperation as OM dumped her.

Be strong and successful zoomie. Lets keep in touch.