Three weeks ago the sparrow came here to get things. We had a few angry words during the course of the visit, but later she cried and I held her for a few seconds.

That night I tried to call her - I wanted to apologize for getting angry and offer to bring some things to her. No answer. I left a short message asking her to call me, and she did not. The following week I sent a card, offering to bring her some things. Again, no response.

Today she left me a phone message - she wants to come over tomorrow (Saturday) and get more stuff.

This won't work. My brother and one of my friends will be here helping me work on my attic insulation, and I won't subject anybody to all that awkwardness.

I won't be here Sunday, and I don't want her coming in and boosting things from the house.

I'm contemplating plan B, but I feel like a wimp for wanting to do it.

And I have no children. SH has suggested no plan B if there aren't children.

And lostva did it without plan B. In fact, she may have succeeded specifically because she didn't go to plan B.

I think I might be strong enough to do the same.

But man, I'm also sick of hurting.

GC

gc:

I understand how you feel. That's a toughie.

I really respect the way lostva did things. She kept her sense of humor - a kind of cheerful sarcasm she even used on her WH that didn't LB very much. Like she KNEW he'd come back even2ally, and she let him know she knew.

Sparrow's A is no less ridiculous than lostva's H's was with PT, maybe even more so.

But not everyone can plan A the way lostva did. That gal had... ...well, she sure had them! Ac2ally, in truth lostva didn't plan A, she planned lostva!

-ol' 2long

There is a simple, straightforward, Plan A way to proceed.

"Sorry, this weekend won't work for me. Is there another time that'll work for you?"

Thanks, J. I did just what you suggested. She didn't answer her phone, so I left a message, very cheerful, said,

"Hi sparrow, this is gray. I'm real sorry, but this weekend isn't going to be a good time for you to come. There's a lot going on, and there's going to be a fair number of people over here all weekend. Think about another time that will work for you and let me know, 'kay? Bye."

Yep, I can do this.

GC

Just want to chime in and say how proud I am of you, graycloud, for doing that.

bet you feel great!

I'm interested in SH advising you no plan B. I understand what the point of not doing it is, with no children....however, if plan a and plan b are really for the bs, then it's up to you. I believe plan a is barely for the bs, but more for the ws to see the bs can change....and plan b is specifically for the BS, to protect the small shred of love left in the bs. The point when the bs says, you know what, I'm done with this, all of it, no more...it's plan b. The ws doesn't get the choice, it doesn't really matter if you have kids, friends, family in common, nothing...it's about protecting the love you have left. I know some of it is showing the ws what needs aren't being met by the op, but, when you don't live together, and an affair if going on, let's face it...the only need you are fulfilling is financial, and well, unfortunately, that will probably happen for the next 15 years if kids are involved, or a big ol alimony check... plan b is for you. I'm not saying do it, but, I have a yucky little voice in me that says every now and then, "Rook, you shoulda plan b'd her [censored]."

Thanks, maddy. I did feel great after doing it. I made a big pot of curry, and my friends, who I'm driving to the airport in the morning, came over to spend the night. We ate my four-alarm curry and drank beer, watched the debate (heckled the candidate we don't like), watched the Twins lose <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , listened to music, and had a great night.

RK, I had a single session with JH, and she actually did recommend plan B in the final weeks before my divorce becomes final. But she almost did so as an afterthought. It was somebody else, possibly roughroad, or maybe the now-vanished phantom8088, who SH advised against plan B for childless BSs.

I know that plan B would be for me. And I've had enough of a taste of it, arising from my WW's distance, to know that it is a good place to be. These days, as long as car4love doesn't tell me about some new offense, and as long as the sparrow doesn't contact me, I'm usually fine.

When I hear from the sparrow, I feel fresh pain. But the one thing I doubt about plan B for me is the part about protecting my small shred of love. I don't think it needs protecting any more. One of the most important things I've learned these last few months is that I can love anybody, even my worst enemy.

But it would be nice to have a open-ended permit to not respond to anything from the sparrow. As is the case for most any BS, all my interactions with her hurt me. And doing plan B gives me some control over my life versus now, where I'm the rag doll tied to the pickup truck.

And it might influence her behavior in a way my current plan does not.

Why do you say you should have gone to plan B? Do you think it would have changed your outcome, or would it have made you suffer less?

It's too late - can't think much any more. I'm wiped. Night.

GC

Graycloud: Perfect!!

RookKev: One common misconception about Plan A is that you're not allowed to say no while you're in Plan A.

It is, as you said, all about showing the WS that you're willing to change. Absolutely. What's often overlooked is that part of the change is learning to respectfully, calmly, and without LBing all over the place, say no, that really doesn't work for me.

As an example....

"You know, your affair really isn't working for me."

"Please stop yelling at me. It's upsetting me."

"I'm sorry, but I am too angry to have a conversation right now. I'm going to go outside."

"No, this weekend really doesn't work for me. Sorry."

Plan A is very much about the betrayed spouse, though it can feel otherwise sometimes. It's about the betrayed spouse learning to handle his or her own emotions -- rather than dumping them all over the other person. It's about the betrayed spouse learning what their dealbreakers are -- the places where they just cannot remain in the same physical space with their spouse. It's about the betrayed spouse learning boundaries and compassion at the same time, and that's a tough mix.

What GC did -- by saying no without creating a fight -- is perfect. Doesn't matter whether you're in Plan A, Plan B, reconciliation, a marriage that never had problems, divorced, single, whatever. He addressed the issue with sparrow -- and dealt with the emotional overload with himself and us here.

Oh, and Plan B is, yes, about protecting the BS. It's also about protecting the marriage and the WS.

Gray -

Why don't you just put the last of the things she has at the house out in the garage, with a brief email to her that they are there, please come and collect all at once while you are at work.

Tell her that if she ever ends it with OM that you would love to have dinner sometime, but until that happens please don't contact you.

You have been Plan A'ing for a long time now, granted without much chance since you never see her. What good is continuing that way? It is not quickening the end of the affair, from what we can see anyway.

I think its time for a little hard ball, let her stew in the fact that she has lost you, and see which way the wind blows from there. No need for anger or LB's, just a calm factual statement that you are moving on, with or without her. And as long as she is w/OM, it is going to be without her.

Atleast then you won't have to go through this every other weekend. No reason to any longer listen for the phone to ring, or for an email from her.

I realize other on here may disagree, but that is what I would do at this point if I were you.

gc:

"watched the debate (heckled the candidate we don't like)"

He made that really easy, didn't he!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think you did the best thing, 2. Very nicely done.

I think you found renewed strength, 2. It isn't now that you're at wits end with plan A and it's time 2 do something else. It's that you just tried an excellent self-boosting technique that's a part of plan A and it WORKED. Now, you're good until the next re2uest 2 come get her stuff.

One day at a time.

-ol' 2long

bumping this up so I can reply later <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

just curious if you have had the locks changed on the house. if you did then you could do as someone suggested and put everything in the garage and she could come and get it when you are not there. although if it were me, i would still be worried that my WS would bring the OP over. which is exactly why i have not approached the subject of dividing the stuff because i'm not there in the first place.

yes, SH did tell me that plan B is not really suggested for those w/out kids. SH said this was because then the communication lines would really be closed and there would be no "ties." also, often the WS looks for the BS to be the one that puts an end (legally) to the M so that the WS would be essentially getting a "get out of jail" free card. Which again as i keep saying, is why i refuse to file for a D because that's exactly what my H wants me to do.

lostva had kids and her H never really stopped talking to her (even though what he did say was very "ugly" and hateful) unlike me and graycloud's spouses who plan B'd us. so again, not every "plan" applies to every situation. hence, the reason to go to the source (the harley's) and get immediate professional feedback specific to your situation.