I'm sure that most of you have gone through this but it sure feels like it is bigger somehow since it's happening to me.
Married to the love of my life for 28 yrs. with the occassional ups and downs like everyone else but for the most part a completely solid relationship...I thought.
She has huge stresses in her life right now...job, thesis, dying mother, sick horse; all of which have combined to deprive us over the last couple of years of time together.
Then she meet a man at work who pushed all of her buttons that I wasn't. Conversation (intellectual), attention and after a couple of months, sex.
I found out within 3 weeks and confronted her about it and she is devistated that I have been hurt. She has agreed to stay out of his bed but I know she misses him. To the point where it seems I'm doing all the trying. We are still together (its only been a couple of weeks since discovery) (I hate all the shorthand BTW) and she says she wants to see if we will still be compatable when she gets her head together but I'm not sure if her heart wants to leave this guy behind.

She can't quit her job...we have sacrificed way to much to get her into it, so she will continue to see him at work (I know this isn't good). I am in Real Estate and some months are great and some less so.
I know she is in withdrawl and is hurting inside and is maybe even blaming me for some of this. I am following the 15 hrs/wk of dedicated time and sometimes the silence is deafening when it used to be companionable.
I'm not sure what our chances are. Right now it feels like they aren't good even though externally we are fooling those around us.
I'm not sure where to go with this..........

Brian

Welcome to marriagebuilders, a good place to be under the circumstances. Your situatio can turn around but no contact is necessary between her and the other man.

That is the problem I see for you. Is there anyway she can transfer away from him? Is he married also?

You can try Plan A which you can read in my sig line, but her feelings for you are not likely to come back while there is contact with the other man.

Brian,
I know what you're going through. My dicovery was Sept. 17th so I'm not too much further along than you. The one thing that has helped me most with the pain & anxiety is reading on this site that it takes time for the dust to settle. I keep telling my wife that we shouldn't make any drastic decisions (like divorce or even whether we think things can be repaired) right now while we are both so confused and hurting. I have poured over this site & also read most of Dr. Harley's book 'Surviving An Affair'. I would highly reccomend getting a copy & read it for yourself. If your wife is still fighting the addiction like mine, she probably won't be open to you trying to get her to read anything or come to this site but reading it yourself will help tremendously. The first 2 weeks were the worst so far for me especially the anxiety attacks. You fell like the ground has literally been pulled out from under your whole life but it does get better. Hang in there & read everything you can here.

:::::::::Married to the love of my life for 28 yrs. with the occassional ups and downs like everyone else but for the most part a completely solid relationship...I thought.

Brian! Hi, Guess your post caught my eye as I identified with the above - only in our case we didn't have any downs in our relationship pretty much for the 30 yrs we were married. Hand raised for a rock solid relationship too (or so I thought). The thing about affairs (A) is that they don't respect rock solid relationships. Other people don't respect rock solid relationships! You now need to understand the dynamics of As. Read the post on GQs re What if WS truly loves the OP! There are some good points in it about love. The reply I wrote explains what happens to your S when they get mixed up with OP (other person). It's quite interesting and a process that can be analysed and used to untangle the WS from their addiction. (yes your wife is addicted to the feel good chemicals she gets drenched with every time she sees the OM and she's now experiencing the pain of withdrawal that we all feel when we are stopped from doing something we enjoy very much). I wonder how she would feel if she knew she had a chemical addiction - as basically that's exactly what she has. Nature is such a sneaky b*stard!


:::She has huge stresses in her life right now...job, thesis, dying mother, sick horse; all of which have combined to deprive us over the last couple of years of time together.

This was us - pretty much without the sick horse. I can substitute other problems its place though. So, like you, having no clue about how easily another person can enter your marriage, I was busy putting out spot fires all over our life (yes even had the dying mother), whilst beloved husband decided to make a fool of himself over a poverty stricken asian girl, half his age. (we live in Asia) No points for working out what the girl was after. I'll give you a hint. Husband could pass for 60 after a big nite out but was actually 50 when it happened (2 yrs ago) - and like most 50 yrs - we have money in the bank.


:::Then she meet a man at work who pushed all of her buttons that I wasn't. Conversation (intellectual), attention and after a couple of months, sex.

OK, your W thinks she has met her soul mate bla bla bla. She is in cloud cockoo land and is thinking about as clearly as a sack of potatoes right?

There is so much to explain to you and a lot for you to take in. Firstly I'm wondering whether the OM (other man) is also married? Because that's an extra complication e.g. his wife. I presume the thesis is a Phd? If so, it helps explain her behavior even more.

Anyway, basically what happens to a spouse (S) when they get themselves into this mess is that they are gradually sucked in by the attraction they feel for the OP (other person) and they move the goal posts, which until now have been firmly fixed at THE NO UNFAITHFULNESS BOUNDRY. They are moved bit by bit as they receive chemical hits which are a reaction to the attention (very flattering) they are receiving from a most interesting and attractive OP.

I should digress to tell you that the OP might not be as nice nor as interesting nor as good looking as you. OP's are usually pretty ordinary actually, but there would be something about him that your wife finds attractive. Sometimes it's just the compliment and flattery of the attention that the OP gives our S that makes them lay down and roll over to expose their underbellies.

So, just like when she was young, she's fallen for someone - even though she didn't mean to and believed it was wrong to, she found the allure too hard to resist. And instead of sticking by her firm boundries: I'm happily married etc. She found that this OM was terribly desirable and made her feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD, that her brain fell into action with the love chemicals that cause irrational behavior. Vast amounts of endorphines flood her brain every time she sees her OM. This sends signals to the hormone department and they go into overdrive too. A healhty dollop of testosterone is dumped around her body and the desire becomes stronger still. And basically, her body has been sitting in the idle position for years in a settled and happy marriage. Happily humming over, feeling good, feeling happy and feeling safe and them BAM! The unexpected feelings of love, lust and excitment that she hadn't experienced since she was a teenager. At this point she is willing to risk everything for a man that she wouldn't have looked twice at if he was serving her fruit at the market. We create our own reality - and her perception of the OM is that he is interesting and attractive and she wants to please him badly. She has been caught in a trap that nature lays to make sure that people mate and produce offspring. The reality is that this OM won't make her any happier than you have made her - because in time, the chemical rush she's now experincing will slow to a trickle and then stop and then she has to attach to him for the long haul and he probably won't make her any happier than you have made her on a mundane, day to day basis, and he probably has less desirable qualities than you have. He's dishonest for a start.

:::I found out within 3 weeks and confronted her about it and she is devistated that I have been hurt.

Good. This is a good sign and a positive sign.


::She has agreed to stay out of his bed but I know she misses him. To the point where it seems I'm doing all the trying.

Hope some others chime in with advice here. She's in withdrawal btw. That's why she's acting sh*tty. You've taken her new toy off her. It hurts and it was her own special play thing that she found all by herself and when she turns the key it omits the most wonderful feeling, something similar to having a morphine/marijuana/testosterone cocktail - with ice, after a bad day! And Brian, you big bully you, you've taken it off her. How mean is that? You are the reason she can't go out and play with her fun, exciting new toy. She's bound to feel a bit dark on you.


:::We are still together (its only been a couple of weeks since discovery) (I hate all the shorthand BTW) and she says she wants to see if we will still be compatable when she gets her head together but I'm not sure if her heart wants to leave this guy behind.

Also hope others comment on the head/heart thing. If she follows her heart she's making a big mistake, cos the heart is notoriously trecherous. Can lead you to make a total nit wit of yourself. For her own sanity she needs to learn about what's happening to her. It's all sadly predictable behavior that's mostly smokes and mirrors - and when the love potion wears off (brain stops secreting endorphines) - which it will if she makes a firm stand for commonsense and what is right - she will eventually come to abhor what she's done and feel highly embarrassed over it all. My H is a highly respected academic and he would like to knor his own leg off with accute embarrassement over his behavior and the damage he's done to our marriage.

:::She can't quit her job...we have sacrificed way to much to get her into it, so she will continue to see him at work (I know this isn't good). I am in Real Estate and some months are great and some less so.

That's a tuff one. My H is about to resign a hugely over paid job because of the mess our marriage is in. We think we might have enough put by to retire on but it's a squeeze and when I'm struggling to pay the electricity bill I'm probably gonna think that I owe all this scrimping and struggling to my H's desire to please a stupid little airhead who was playing him for a fool. But, it's really too soon for you to ask your wife to give up her job. It's probably better if she decides that for herself - when the penny has dropped over what a mess she's made of things. In reality I would hope that she would give up her job for the marriage. Desparate situations require desperate solutions. Though it's up to those involved to chose what is best.

:::::I know she is in withdrawl and is hurting inside and is maybe even blaming me for some of this. I am following the 15 hrs/wk of dedicated time and sometimes the silence is deafening when it used to be companionable.

It takes a very long time for the easy companionship to return. You two are going to be in anxious mode for quite some time to come. Can I suggest something? Is your wife open to snuggling with you. Don't waste your hurt status and let her off too easily. Get her to lay down with you as often as she is willing and snuggle with you. I'm not suggesting sex - I'm suggesting lots and lots of snuggles. Apparently the brain releases an attachment hormone during snuggling and cuddling. It's a non threatening, strangly comforting activity that might help sooth her jangled nerves. (withdrawal)


::::I'm not sure what our chances are. Right now it feels like they aren't good even though externally we are fooling those around us.
I'm not sure where to go with this..........

Sometimes I feel like telling BSs (betrayed spouses) to walk out and act like it's the end. It's seldom what we do, but when the WS is acting all hurt and in pain, you feel like laying it on the line and letting them see that you are more hurt than them and that you did nothing to deserve such horrible, horrible treatment by them. Plus, the love game (as it seems to have become) can often work in the way that; you want what you can't have. She can't have the OM now that you've discovered him. So she wants him. I can't help wondering whether she might wake up faster if you treated yourself with the importance you deserve and tell her it's over between you and that her unfaithfulness is unforgivable. Let her do some work - not you. But, it's risky isn't it? I didn't do it and I could not expect anyone else to, but I sure admire those who do. Even if it's to shock their Ss into reality.

sorry this is so long. I'm learning to.

AN

>>>>>Brian! Hi, Guess your post caught my eye as I identified with the above - only in our case we didn't have any downs in our relationship pretty much for the 30 yrs we were married. Hand raised for a rock solid relationship too (or so I thought). The thing about affairs (A) is that they don't respect rock solid relationships. Other people don't respect rock solid relationships! You now need to understand the dynamics of As. Read the post on GQs re What if WS truly loves the OP! There are some good points in it about love. The reply I wrote explains what happens to your S when they get mixed up with OP (other person). It's quite interesting and a process that can be analysed and used to untangle the WS from their addiction. (yes your wife is addicted to the feel good chemicals she gets drenched with every time she sees the OM and she's now experiencing the pain of withdrawal that we all feel when we are stopped from doing something we enjoy very much). I wonder how she would feel if she knew she had a chemical addiction - as basically that's exactly what she has. Nature is such a sneaky b*stard!

Thanks AN. Your reply has helped me to put everything into a bit more perspective. She says the horror of the whole situation is she loves two men. One is there for the everyday doing the dishes and cutting the grass hum-drum of real life and the other one who has lit her fire. She thinks that the relationship might have burned itself out after a couple of months when the hormones quit and she could view the situation with logic instead of sexual awareness but now she has been discovered and caught in the lie (which is a BIG deal to her) and I think I’m paying a bit of a price for pulling the rug out from under her.


>>>>>>This was us - pretty much without the sick horse. I can substitute other problems its place though. So, like you, having no clue about how easily another person can enter your marriage, I was busy putting out spot fires all over our life (yes even had the dying mother), whilst beloved husband decided to make a fool of himself over a poverty stricken asian girl, half his age. (we live in Asia) No points for working out what the girl was after. I'll give you a hint. Husband could pass for 60 after a big nite out but was actually 50 when it happened (2 yrs ago) - and like most 50 yrs - we have money in the bank.


We don’t have a huge amount of money in the bank but because of my profession we have a small mortgage on a real estate asset that on sale could support us for a long time. Being self employed in commission sales I have a hard time putting money into the bank every month and as a result banks don’t like to extend credit to the likes of myself, whereas Louise, with a good professional job can sign for money easily. It was a good sytem for a long time.


>>>>OK, your W thinks she has met her soul mate bla bla bla. She is in cloud cockoo land and is thinking about as clearly as a sack of potatoes right?

There is so much to explain to you and a lot for you to take in. Firstly I'm wondering whether the OM (other man) is also married? Because that's an extra complication e.g. his wife. I presume the thesis is a Phd? If so, it helps explain her behavior even more.


He is finished with an 18 yr marriage and has had 3-4 relationships since. Marie is working on a part-time MSc in Pharm (Agr) while running a regulatory lab at the same time. HUGE pressure.

>>>>>>Anyway, basically what happens to a spouse (S) when they get themselves into this mess is that they are gradually sucked in by the attraction they feel for the OP (other person) and they move the goal posts, which until now have been firmly fixed at THE NO UNFAITHFULNESS BOUNDRY. They are moved bit by bit as they receive chemical hits which are a reaction to the attention (very flattering) they are receiving from a most interesting and attractive OP.


Actually, you’ve hit the nail right on the head

>>>>>>I should digress to tell you that the OP might not be as nice nor as interesting nor as good looking as you. OP's are usually pretty ordinary actually, but there would be something about him that your wife finds attractive. Sometimes it's just the compliment and flattery of the attention that the OP gives our S that makes them lay down and roll over to expose their underbellies.


The problem is he is brilliant, good looking, charming, predatory and reads people like an open book

>>>>>>So, just like when she was young, she's fallen for someone - even though she didn't mean to and believed it was wrong to, she found the allure too hard to resist. And instead of sticking by her firm boundries: I'm happily married etc. She found that this OM was terribly desirable and made her feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD, that her brain fell into action with the love chemicals that cause irrational behavior. Vast amounts of endorphines flood her brain every time she sees her OM. This sends signals to the hormone department and they go into overdrive too. A healhty dollop of testosterone is dumped around her body and the desire becomes stronger still. And basically, her body has been sitting in the idle position for years in a settled and happy marriage. Happily humming over, feeling good, feeling happy and feeling safe and them BAM! The unexpected feelings of love, lust and excitment that she hadn't experienced since she was a teenager. At this point she is willing to risk everything for a man that she wouldn't have looked twice at if he was serving her fruit at the market. We create our own reality - and her perception of the OM is that he is interesting and attractive and she wants to please him badly. She has been caught in a trap that nature lays to make sure that people mate and produce offspring. The reality is that this OM won't make her any happier than you have made her - because in time, the chemical rush she's now experiencing will slow to a trickle and then stop and then she has to attach to him for the long haul and he probably won't make her any happier than you have made her on a mundane, day to day basis, and he probably has less desirable qualities than you have. He's dishonest for a start.


>>>>>Good. This is a good sign and a positive sign.


I hope so, too.


::She has agreed to stay out of his bed but I know she misses him. To the point where it seems I'm doing all the trying.

Hope some others chime in with advice here. She's in withdrawal btw. That's why she's acting sh*tty. You've taken her new toy off her. It hurts and it was her own special play thing that she found all by herself and when she turns the key it omits the most wonderful feeling, something similar to having a morphine/marijuana/testosterone cocktail - with ice, after a bad day! And Brian, you big bully you, you've taken it off her. How mean is that? You are the reason she can't go out and play with her fun, exciting new toy. She's bound to feel a bit dark on you.


>>>>Also hope others comment on the head/heart thing. If she follows her heart she's making a big mistake, cos the heart is notoriously trecherous. Can lead you to make a total nit wit of yourself. For her own sanity she needs to learn about what's happening to her. It's all sadly predictable behavior that's mostly smokes and mirrors - and when the love potion wears off (brain stops secreting endorphines) - which it will if she makes a firm stand for commonsense and what is right - she will eventually come to abhor what she's done and feel highly embarrassed over it all. My H is a highly respected academic and he would like to gnaw his own leg off with acute embarrassment over his behavior and the damage he's done to our marriage.


I suspect, because she is a Scientist, she will look at all the data before she does anything. And just because she decides not to go with this guy, doesn’t mean she won’t decide to stay with me. She is looking at things from a 3’rd person perspective and is wondering that since she was susceptible once because of boredom with our relationship, maybe she should back away from it until she discovers herself.


>>>>>It takes a very long time for the easy companionship to return. You two are going to be in anxious mode for quite some time to come. Can I suggest something? Is your wife open to snuggling with you. Don't waste your hurt status and let her off too easily. Get her to lay down with you as often as she is willing and snuggle with you. I'm not suggesting sex - I'm suggesting lots and lots of snuggles. Apparently the brain releases an attachment hormone during snuggling and cuddling. It's a non threatening, strangly comforting activity that might help sooth her jangled nerves. (withdrawal)

Interestingly enough, our sex life wasn’t all that great for most of our marriage. Not bad, but just ho-hum. Fun when we had it but no great passion to have it often. We married young and neither of us brought much experience to the table. I guess you could say we tried everything we knew but we didn’t know much. Not being exposed to anyone else over the years has guarantedd that we only have 1 yrs experience-28 times…with the same partner each time.
Now however the physical side of our relationship is hot and it became so before I found out about the affair. It’s like we are different people. She actually is, I think. My concern is it’s not me with her, it’s him.


>>>>>>Sometimes I feel like telling BSs (betrayed spouses) to walk out and act like it's the end. It's seldom what we do, but when the WS is acting all hurt and in pain, you feel like laying it on the line and letting them see that you are more hurt than them and that you did nothing to deserve such horrible, horrible treatment by them. Plus, the love game (as it seems to have become) can often work in the way that; you want what you can't have. She can't have the OM now that you've discovered him. So she wants him. I can't help wondering whether she might wake up faster if you treated yourself with the importance you deserve and tell her it's over between you and that her unfaithfulness is unforgivable. Let her do some work - not you. But, it's risky isn't it? I didn't do it and I could not expect anyone else to, but I sure admire those who do. Even if it's to shock their Ss into reality.

She probably could have him if she wanted. There is no reason why she has to stay with me. She is well employed and wouldn’t starve if she left.
The one thing that I know is weighing on her mind is this relationship has a foundation of dishonesty, dishonour, and deception…hardly a recipe for a solid future. She states that she knows I would never do that to another person no matter how available the opportunity because that’s the way I’m wired and she loves and respects the kind of values that I have. He isn’t like that and I think she has some misgivings about it.

>>>>>sorry this is so long. I'm learning to.


I have a long road ahead of me and I hope when I come to an intersection, Marie is waiting there and we can continue our journey into our future. If she is willing, we have a lot of work to do.

Thanks for putting a lot of thought into your reply. It makes it much easier to understand. I don’t have any close female confidants to help me with this who aren’t good friends of both of us. Affairs are sordid little dark things and I can’t bring myself to talk to our mutual friends about it because I don’t want them to have less respect for her.

Brian

<small>[ October 13, 2004, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: bbrriiaann ]</small>

Hey Anyname, great advice, as usual. Sorry to jump in here but thought you might care to know that we are separating. Don't know if I'm being brave or nuts but Plan A hasn't worked and cannot Plan B in our situation so .... Will post a new thread TT

TT, so, so sorry - are you going to leave here soon? I await your new thread. It's late in HK and you won't be reading this tonight. Pls post and let us know what happened since you last posted.

Brian, As I told TT, it's too late to reply. The thing I forgot to mention is A sex is usually hot. It's the chemical/hormonal levels that are present in high numbers because of the new relationship. Poor you that he is so brilliant and attractive - but he does sound a bit of a cad. Spare a thought for me too. My H's OW was half my age and large breasted. I'm a small build and in good shape so at least I didn't have to feel bad about that as well as my wrinkles and greying hair. But - actually my H has said the same stuff about me that you W says about you. I would never have cheated on my H and he knows I had a lot of opportunity to do so. Our Ss find those qualities attractive - but you will need to draw boundries for her. She cannot have OM for sex and you to do the manual labour. You must be very very clear about that.

But, I don't want to turn this into a long post. I hope others reply and I will add more in the morning.

AN
ps be careful how much personal info you give out. It might make your wife a bit cross as she will be sensitive about her behavior.

Poor you that he is so brilliant and attractive - but he does sound a bit of a cad.

Yes, I know. These are important qualities in Marie’s opinion. I’m less brilliant but much more dedicated!


Spare a thought for me too.

My heart goes out to anyone in this situation. It sounds like you are on the road to recovery, though


I'm a small build and in good shape so at least I didn't have to feel bad about that as well as my wrinkles and greying hair.

HK is way too far away for a date…I love grey hair! :?)

You will need to draw boundries for her. She cannot have OM for sex and you to do the manual labour. You must be very very clear about that.

Actually, I am going to paraphrase your reply and present it to her at a suitable time.

I will add more in the morning.

I’ll check back

ps be careful how much personal info you give out. It might make your wife a bit cross as she will be sensitive about her behavior.

Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

:::Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

don't you mean the guilty?

I need a bit more time. I am interested in chatting more with you. I hear a few things you are saying that scream out WRONG at me. E.g. You are selling yourself short, and it's a big mistake. It's profoundly wrong - as we need to be equitable in our relationships (both partners contribute different things but there needs to be an over all balance of contribution) You are not contributing less than her but you might have inadvertently let her think you were by not valueing yourself highly enough or letting her think she is more important than you because she has an "intellectual" job.

I can put you right over a lot of that intellectual, academic crap. (little secret just between you and me?) They are as dumb as dog sh*t a lot of the time. And I'll tell you why when I have more time.

I want to get back to Tummytuck firstly. And then I will spend a lot more time on a proper reply to you. Putting you in your rightful position as a thorougly wonderful and decent human being - with a form of cleverness that is equal to if not better than book learning - is my first priority.

AN
ps I thought realestate agents were meant to be sharks? You sound more like a dolphin to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

:::::Thanks AN. She says the horror of the whole situation is she loves two men. One is there for the everyday doing the dishes and cutting the grass hum-drum of real life and the other one who has lit her fire.

Brian, Sorry this might not do justice to what I'm feeling for your situatuion. I've been out to dinner, discussing our future with a colleague of my H's who has stopped over in HK for the day to talk to my H about future work back in home country. Funny that I've been out with two Phd's tonight, both of them cheating husbands. I come back to what I said earlier - intellectuals are no cleverer at running their lives than anyone else - they have good minds that can remember facts etc but when it comes to emotional choices, they aren't any smarter than the next person.

Your above statement worries me. Surely she didn't tell you that you are ok for the boring stuff ???? Mmmmm. Have you discovered the stuff on fog talk yet? When the S is having an A their minds are affected by the chemical changes they experience and it makes them think stupidly and irrationally. My H told me that he was only going to go out with the girl when I wasn't around - as if I couldn't figure that out for myself!!!!!!!! A Bsc, Hons, Masters, Phd and that's the way he responds to being caught with a 26 yo girl after being married to me for 30 yrs!

This is fog talk and can't be trusted. There's a great piece written by Together Alone about the process of fog. One of the things she comments on is their thought process that changes to accommodate cheating. It means that usual logic must be changed continually until it allows for the behavior that is desired by them. The only people who are tested with their ratonale is themselves and their A partner. They spend a fair bit of time in screwed up thinking and come to believe their own reasoning. When they are discovered they start to use the rogue logic on the spouse who can't believe the rubbish that is coming from the mouth of their long trusted partner. But it's a result of weeks, or months or years of self deception and they think it's ok, until they see everyone react so badly to it and begin to remember that such rationale was not acceptable to them at one time.

:::She thinks that the relationship might have burned itself out after a couple of months when the hormones quit and she could view the situation with logic instead of sexual awareness but now she has been discovered and caught in the lie (which is a BIG deal to her) and I think I’m paying a bit of a price for pulling the rug out from under her.

I doubt whether it would have burned itself out. She would have become addicted to the sex. As I said, A sex is laced with extra testosterone. That's why you ended up getting better/more sex with her, as her body was swimming in sex hormones and she was wanting sex more often to satisfy her urges.

I am not sure how to deal with her humiliation at being caught in a lie. Gotta think more about that.

;;;He is finished with an 18 yr marriage and has had 3-4 relationships since. Marie is working on a part-time MSc in Pharm (Agr) while running a regulatory lab at the same time. HUGE pressure.

what is Agr?


;;;;The problem is he is brilliant, good looking, charming, predatory and reads people like an open book

He sounds somewhat taken with himself?? I can imagine that he wouldn't stay with your wife any more than he stayed with all the others. Sounds like his major love affair is with himself!


:::I suspect, because she is a Scientist, she will look at all the data before she does anything. And just because she decides not to go with this guy, doesn’t mean she won’t decide to stay with me.

Pls don't give too much credit to scientists. My daughter is a doctor and my son is a medical researcher - they aren't any smarter at personal stuff than anyone esle. Your wife isn't going to look at her personal situation in a scientific way. There's a guy on this site who's wife is a doctor with 3 kids - and she picked up an STD from her OM. This is an area where knowledge and intellect is no advantage at all. She is subject to the laws of nature, like everyone esle and she is likely to make really stupid decisions, like everyone else that gives themselves permission to behave badly.


:::She is looking at things from a 3’rd person perspective and is wondering that since she was susceptible once because of boredom with our relationship, maybe she should back away from it until she discovers herself.

She wasn't bored with you until this guy gave her attention. My H wasn't bored until miss bimbo gave him attention. It's a weakness in the persons belief in themselves. Either they think too much of themselves or too little of themselves. Your wife probably thought too much of herself and you probably helped her to do that. You have to stop putting her on a pedastel just because she's got a science degree. All this stuff about discovering herself is absolute nonesense. She has to discover that she's behaved very badly and very stupidly and that she's risking a wonderful marriage to a wonderful man. Pls start to think more along these lines - because its true and its much healthier for your relationship for you to think more highly of yourself.


::::Interestingly enough, our sex life wasn’t all that great for most of our marriage. Not bad, but just ho-hum. Fun when we had it but no great passion to have it often. We married young and neither of us brought much experience to the table. I guess you could say we tried everything we knew but we didn’t know much. Not being exposed to anyone else over the years has guarantedd that we only have 1 yrs experience-28 times…with the same partner each time.
Now however the physical side of our relationship is hot and it became so before I found out about the affair. It’s like we are different people. She actually is, I think. My concern is it’s not me with her, it’s him.

It's just sex. It's neither you or him. She's just all sexed up with hormones that have flooded her body in response to the attraction and excitement from the A. Is she still being sexually responsive to you? Or are you out in the cold for discvoering the A?


::::She probably could have him if she wanted. There is no reason why she has to stay with me. She is well employed and wouldn’t starve if she left.

Do you have children? She has 28 yrs wrapped up in you. Plse don't give up on yourself so easily. You sound very defeated. You shouldn't give up with out a fight. Grrrrr. Even if it's to protect your wife from that man who is obviously not a good choice for her. He will use her up and leave her high and dry. He's that kind of man and she knows it.


::::The one thing that I know is weighing on her mind is this relationship has a foundation of dishonesty, dishonour, and deception…hardly a recipe for a solid future. She states that she knows I would never do that to another person no matter how available the opportunity because that’s the way I’m wired and she loves and respects the kind of values that I have. He isn’t like that and I think she has some misgivings about it.

Basically it's a no brainer!!! Men like you are hard to come by. There are loads of arseh*les out there but not a lot of the genuine article. Truly. You are a gem. And your wife knows that.

::::It makes it much easier to understand. I don’t have any close female confidants to help me with this who aren’t good friends of both of us. Affairs are sordid little dark things and I can’t bring myself to talk to our mutual friends about it because I don’t want them to have less respect for her.

That's probably the best thing. You don't want to do anything you will regret later. Sorry I've rushed this. I'm really tired tonight. Gotta go to bed. I am happy to keep chatting to you if you think I can help. I usually have more time.

chin up eh?
AN

:::::Thanks AN. She says the horror of the whole situation is she loves two men. One is there for the everyday doing the dishes and cutting the grass hum-drum of real life and the other one who has lit her fire.

>>>>>>Your above statement worries me. Surely she didn't tell you that you are ok for the boring stuff ???? Mmmmm. Have you discovered the stuff on fog talk yet? When the S is having an A their minds are affected by the chemical changes they experience and it makes them think stupidly and irrationally. My H told me that he was only going to go out with the girl when I wasn't around - as if I couldn't figure that out for myself!!!!!!!! A Bsc, Hons, Masters, Phd and that's the way he responds to being caught with a 26 yo girl after being married to me for 30 yrs!

No, she didn’t say I was good for dishes only. She did say that the new guy did more for her in the phys., intellectual areas than I did these days.


>>>>>>This is fog talk and can't be trusted. There's a great piece written by Together Alone about the process of fog. One of the things she comments on is their thought process that changes to accommodate cheating. It means that usual logic must be changed continually until it allows for the behavior that is desired by them. The only people who are tested with their ratonale is themselves and their A partner. They spend a fair bit of time in screwed up thinking and come to believe their own reasoning. When they are discovered they start to use the rogue logic on the spouse who can't believe the rubbish that is coming from the mouth of their long trusted partner. But it's a result of weeks, or months or years of self deception and they think it's ok, until they see everyone react so badly to it and begin to remember that such rationale was not acceptable to them at one time.

I’m still processing this paragraph. I think she was only on the edge for a month or two so I’m not sure it really applies yet.

>>>>>>>I doubt whether it would have burned itself out. She would have become addicted to the sex. As I said, A sex is laced with extra testosterone. That's why you ended up getting better/more sex with her, as her body was swimming in sex hormones and she was wanting sex more often to satisfy her urges.

I am not sure how to deal with her humiliation at being caught in a lie. Gotta think more about that.

>>>>>what is Agr?

B. Sc (Agriculture)



>>>>>>He sounds somewhat taken with himself?? I can imagine that he wouldn't stay with your wife any more than he stayed with all the others. Sounds like his major love affair is with himself!


We had a long talk last night about him. I think she realizes that he’d dump her in a couple of years when gravity takes a hold of her 52 yr/old body. He is 7 yrs younger and a competitive athlete, (how Freudian…I spelled assh*le first) and really values looks, as do I. The difference is, she knows I’ll still find her beautiful when all are teeth are gone but he won’t.


>>>>>>>Pls don't give too much credit to scientists. My daughter is a doctor and my son is a medical researcher - they aren't any smarter at personal stuff than anyone esle. Your wife isn't going to look at her personal situation in a scientific way. There's a guy on this site who's wife is a doctor with 3 kids - and she picked up an STD from her OM. This is an area where knowledge and intellect is no advantage at all. She is subject to the laws of nature, like everyone esle and she is likely to make really stupid decisions, like everyone else that gives themselves permission to behave badly.

I don’t know if I appreciate the importance of the chemical addiction you are talking about but it would go a long way towards explaining her behaviour. She said, last night, she would love to have him 2 days a week but live with me!!!! I guess you need someone around to keep the home tidy.

>>>>>>She wasn't bored with you until this guy gave her attention. My H wasn't bored until miss bimbo gave him attention. It's a weakness in the persons belief in themselves. Either they think too much of themselves or too little of themselves. Your wife probably thought too much of herself and you probably helped her to do that. You have to stop putting her on a pedastel just because she's got a science degree. All this stuff about discovering herself is absolute nonesense. She has to discover that she's behaved very badly and very stupidly and that she's risking a wonderful marriage to a wonderful man. Pls start to think more along these lines - because its true and its much healthier for your relationship for you to think more highly of yourself.

My Science degree is also in Agriculture…that’s how we met. But you are right, I am more impressed with her accomplishments than I am with mine. Not to say I’m undervaluing me or mine.

>>>>>>It's just sex. It's neither you or him. She's just all sexed up with hormones that have flooded her body in response to the attraction and excitement from the A. Is she still being sexually responsive to you? Or are you out in the cold for discvoering the A?


As of last night, I may need to take matters into…………… We sleep together and we’ve always hugged until we fell asleep. She said it was making her uncomfortable so I told her if she wanted a hug it was her decision. 3:30 am and she rolled into my arms and we stayed that way until 6:00. I am confused!


>>>>>>Do you have children? She has 28 yrs wrapped up in you. Plse don't give up on yourself so easily. You sound very defeated. You shouldn't give up with out a fight. Grrrrr. Even if it's to protect your wife from that man who is obviously not a good choice for her. He will use her up and leave her high and dry. He's that kind of man and she knows it.

About what he is like I know that and I try everything I can to make her see that…and I think she is starting to as well. But she can’t get him out of her mind and now that she promised me she won’t be with him she is doubly frustrated because she will keep that promise. In frustration I told her to take it back and do what she wants. “Not yet and hopefully not ever”.
No kids. We decided within a year of getting together we would be there for each other. Maybe premature.


>>>>>>Basically it's a no brainer!!! Men like you are hard to come by. There are loads of arseh*les out there but not a lot of the genuine article. Truly. You are a gem. And your wife knows that.


We might be hard to come by but occasionally people are swayed by the excitement and allure of someone bad.

>>>>>That's probably the best thing. You don't want to do anything you will regret later. Sorry I've rushed this. I'm really tired tonight. Gotta go to bed. I am happy to keep chatting to you if you think I can help. I usually have more time.

There is a part of me that wants to take this guy down a notch or two. I won’t go and have a punchup with him…that would land me in jail and wreak my career as well but it would make me pretty happy to think of some way to get him turfed from his job. An anonymous letter to the GM maybe about how there new guy is boinking the other employees.

>>>>chin up eh?

As of this am, you can see right up my nose!


AN

::::No, she didn’t say I was good for dishes only. She did say that the new guy did more for her in the phys., intellectual areas than I did these days.

Brian, I'm busy for a few days so won't post for a while. I'm off to Taiwan in the morning, and they just had an earthquake there. d'oh!

If your W gets her head around what's really happening to her, she's going to regret telling you he's better in the intellectual area. More often than not, spouses end up hating their affair partner. Just keep reading here for enlightenment.


:::I’m still processing this paragraph. I think she was only on the edge for a month or two so I’m not sure it really applies yet.

Yeah, that's long enough. Also she's slept with him, so she's fogged up, at least a little.


:::We had a long talk last night about him. I think she realizes that he’d dump her in a couple of years when gravity takes a hold of her 52 yr/old body. He is 7 yrs younger and a competitive athlete, (how Freudian…I spelled assh*le first) and really values looks, as do I. The difference is, she knows I’ll still find her beautiful when all are teeth are gone but he won’t.

I'm 51 and swim 1.5ks every day and am very trim and fit - but would feel pretty nervous about being with a guy seven yrs younger than myself. I wouldn't be putting too many eggs in that basket!!! I really don't envy her her situation - I'm glad my H looks old - though old guys are all the rage here. Dammit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />


::::I don’t know if I appreciate the importance of the chemical addiction you are talking about but it would go a long way towards explaining her behaviour. She said, last night, she would love to have him 2 days a week but live with me!!!! I guess you need someone around to keep the home tidy.

She's honest with you at least. I have a feeling she's not going to sacrifice you for this OM.

::As of last night, I may need to take matters into…………… We sleep together and we’ve always hugged until we fell asleep. She said it was making her uncomfortable so I told her if she wanted a hug it was her decision. 3:30 am and she rolled into my arms and we stayed that way until 6:00. I am confused!

Yep, we all are. Keep reading here if you have time. You really do have a lot to learn. Knowledge really helps to understand the life cycle of affairs and how best to behave and survive.

Best of luck!

And NO don't go near that jerk. I live a few feet away from my H's OW. I have spent many an hour planning my revenge and selling my soul to the devil for the odd favor or ten. But alas she lives on, looking well and healthy - and I'm not in jail yet! Asian jails can be so tedious! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

AN

Thankyou for the reply. I'll go over it in detail and respond for your return.

Thanks

Hi AN, back yet?

::::No, she didn’t say I was good for dishes only. She did say that the new guy did more for her in the phys., intellectual areas than I did these days.

Brian, I'm busy for a few days so won't post for a while. I'm off to Taiwan in the morning, and they just had an earthquake there. d'oh!

>>>>>>I can imagine things are very confused in Taiwan right now!

If your W gets her head around what's really happening to her, she's going to regret telling you he's better in the intellectual area. More often than not, spouses end up hating their affair partner. Just keep reading here for enlightenment.

>>>>>> She might be back pedalling a bit on that. I honestly believe she doesn’t think I’m stupid …just not exciting. Her ears have been full of hormones since she meet this new man and he can’t do anything wrong. I have told her she is beautiful (and she is) our whole married life and that’s ok but he tells her that after making out and it really means something (she told me)

:::I’m still processing this paragraph. I think she was only on the edge for a month or two so I’m not sure it really applies yet.

Yeah, that's long enough. Also she's slept with him, so she's fogged up, at least a little.

>>>>>> I can see that since you’ve pointed it out.


:::We had a long talk last night about him. I think she realizes that he’d dump her in a couple of years when gravity takes a hold of her 52 yr/old body. He is 7 yrs younger and a competitive athlete, (how Freudian…I spelled assh*le first) and really values looks, as do I. Maybe the difference is, she knows I’ll still find her beautiful when all our teeth are gone but he would have moved on by then, if not much sooner.

I'm 51 and swim 1.5ks every day and am very trim and fit - but would feel pretty nervous about being with a guy seven yrs younger than myself. I wouldn't be putting too many eggs in that basket!!! I really don't envy her her situation - I'm glad my H looks old - though old guys are all the rage here. Dammit

>>>>>> There are some stunning 50+ yr/old ladies out there who have NOTHING to worry about in that department. She is one of them. Model figure, tall, incredibly graceful and very fit. Who knows what the future will do to any of us, though.


::::I don’t know if I appreciate the importance of the chemical addiction you are talking about but it would go a long way towards explaining her behaviour. She said, last night, she would love to have him 2 days a week but live with me the other 5. I guess you need someone around to keep the home tidy.

She's honest with you at least. I have a feeling she's not going to sacrifice you for this OM.

::As of last night, I may need to take matters into my own hands………… We sleep together and we’ve often hugged until we fell asleep. She said it was making her uncomfortable so I told her if she wanted a hug it was her decision. 3:30 am and she rolled into my arms and we stayed that way until 6:00. I am confused!

Yep, we all are. Keep reading here if you have time. You really do have a lot to learn. Knowledge really helps to understand the life cycle of affairs and how best to behave and survive.

Best of luck!

And NO don't go near that jerk. I live a few feet away from my H's OW. I have spent many an hour planning my revenge and selling my soul to the devil for the odd favor or ten. But alas she lives on, looking well and healthy - and I'm not in jail yet! Asian jails can be so tedious!