Two weeks ago WH told me on fri. that he had to go because he misses talking to OW! Told him pack his things! (my last request/boundary was NC and if so..we would discuss what we needed to do about it...if he wasnt honest...he needed to leave...I refuse to be in his sick triangle of lies and deception!)On his way home he called OW! Next morning he got up and acted like all was well and nothing wrong...brought me my coffee and asked me if I wanted to go out and eat breakfast...another ploy to releive his guilt I'm sure! I asked him if he still meant what he said night before, he said yes, I said, what is your plan? Where are you going to stay? H said he didnt have a plan but he didnt feel the way he should about me (felt distant and no warmth)and it wasnt fair to me!! Then OW kept calling his cell. H said he tried not talking to her! He still didnt leave and after our discussion he held me on his lap and wanted sex...then told me he needed to call her back and went outside to call her! Came in house and asked me if I was going to BBQ and I said No go by yourself, he said I dont want to go w/o you??? Said how bout it I go get two plates and bring them home? I just looked at him and started bawling, he said What? Did I say something mean?? I said you are crazy, you ask me that after you go outside our house and call OW? Rest of day totally clingy to me and I had a miserable weekend being depressed and so hurt. Monday morning I was so upset I was throwing up my coffee and he was so attentive. Monday night I came home from work and told him he was free to go...I loved him too much to hold him if he didnt want to be held! His only comment was that I was So Sweet and again became attentive and affectionate??? Rest of week still didnt make attempts to leave?? Last Fri. went out w/friends and he asked me if my friend knew what was going on? I said, whats going on? You mean about you saying your leaving but dont know when or where? He said Yes. My evening was then ruined yet again!Got up sat. and he again acted like nothing was happening...it was our 10th anniv. He made no plans, no gifts. I asked him again what his plans were and if he has decided when he was leaving...he said NO, are you pushing me out the door? (laughing) I told him YES, I need you to GO..you have hurt me so much and disrespected me too much and I want to be with someone who wants to be with me and treat me w/respect! I said dont you think its time? He said Yeah, I guess it is! I will be out today! I said with that said...I am going to the Fair but before I do what do I need to do to help you pack your things? He said, are you going by yourself? I said NO, I have a date! The look on his face was priceless! Then he said will you let me take you? I didnt answer and he was in laundry room folding his socks to pack and he was crying! I said whats wrong and he hugged me and began sobbing loudly and hugging me, he went to bathroom and cried and came out and hugged me again, I couldnt stand it so I went to laundry room and took socks out of bag and said put these away, your not going anywhere, but I do not want to hear anymore talk about your leaving and as long as you live here with me you will not disrespect me!! He said I hear you, then pulled me to his lap and initiated sex, he was more involved than he has been in a long time. He then took shower, but while in shower I went outside with my cell phone and pretended to call someone! He came to door and saw me and then asked me who was I talking to, I said a friend, again the look on his face was hurt and anger. He went to lay on bed and was very quiet, said you just did what you said was very disrespectful. I said, excuse me but did you not tell me that you did not want to be with me anymore or did I miss something??? He said Yes, I did! Then went outside and sat on porch w/his head in his hands, I asked what he was doing, he said thinking, said thinking about how messed up we are!! I said I am sorry you feel that way but I do not, I am thinking more logically than I have in a long time! We went out dancing that night and had fun together! And s.. again! Last night he had dinner ready, which he never does, and although seemed distant, he kept trying to tickle my feet! This morning, distant again, almost seemed a little mad. Sorry so long, but I do not have chance to be here every day and am again at a loss as to what this all means and what I should or shouldnt do now????? Please help, I have been playing with this man threatening to leave me for a year now and I think I am losing my respect!!

I have a feeling the others here are going to recommend a serious SERIOUS Plan A.

This may be a bit of a 2x4...but...when in Rome...

He's being very foggy right now..."do I want her, or do I want OW?" and he's torn up by it. This is typical WS behavior.

It's your job to bring him out of that fog by being a model spouse, which means no ranting and raving, no phony phone calls to get back at him, no demands, and let go of that leash you have on him.
If he STILL decides he wants her, then that's now HIS problem and you can walk away knowing you tried and it's his fault now.

Your sniping and Love Bombs are only making matters worse. Of COURSE he continues to call the OW in your presence, he's trying to hold on to her in case you decide to freak out, and you've done a good job proving that so far!

And, he might be trying to pressure YOU into making the decision that he has to go, so he can be blameless "oh, OW, she threw me out, please, I'm so distraught!"

Anger and childish revenge tactics will only push him closer to the OW and further from you. They only prove to him that he's better off with her than he is with you.

Stop pressuring him. Be calm, be loving. Stop with the revenge tactics and sniping. When he calls her from the porch, tell him that it hurts you and walk away. When he cries, hold him.

You should handle this with maturity, calm, and love.

I know, I've been there myself.

PLAN A. Do it now!

Thanks V,

I see your point except that I have been plan Aing my butt off for 1 year now, and he met her at hotel in June! Told him to get out then...and he would not leave then either!!! Dont you think this man is just wanting his cake and eat it to???? I am being told by everyone that he just does not even CARE about me!!! Why is he still here if he keeps telling me he needs to go???? I just dont understand!!! I dont LB him at all...ever...until he says he needs to leave and I say ok...leave then...how is this lbing???? Then it seems like he likes holding me in "fear" mode and wont make a decision!! I'm sorry but isnt that way toooo much emotional abuse for anyone?????? Are you saying I should just ignore it everytime he says "I need to go"? and live like that everyday???? I have been the "perfect wife"!! I wait on him hand and foot and do only all the things "he" wants to do!! He still continues to dump on me and not care about my feelings!!!

It sounds like what you were doing before he was in the laundry room was working then he started crying. I would be inclined to think you would have done better to stick with having him leave. Sometimes it takes a good dose of reality before they really get off the fence.

If you've been doing plan A for a year, don't you think if you have anymore of his foolishness then it may be time to go to plan B...if just to preserve your love for him and your sanity?

Yes, I concur with Trix...
I didn't realize you were in Plan A for a year before all this.

I suggest you throw his a$$ out and let him stew on that for a few weeks. Plan B it is!!

Sorry I didn't see that before I posted earlier.

However.......
You say you've been in Plan A.
Now it looks like it's time to go to Plan B.
Neither Plan A or B allows for Love Bombs like "pretending to call a OM and lying about it to make him jealous."

So....have you REALLY been in Plan A, or are you letting your anger and desire to punish him push you outside the bounds of Plan A? I'm not 100% convinced that you've done a true Plan A....

<small>[ October 13, 2004, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: VnusMars ]</small>

Yes, I truly believe I have done a good plan A! I really havent been angry and dont want to punish him! I just want him to stop flip flopping on me and threatening to leave every 2 weeks! Also, the only reason I pretended the phone call is because I have tried every thing else, and nothing seems to be working!! He makes comments like: you and another man friend of his would look good together!! This is so hurtful to me!

Well, last night when I got home he asked me if I wanted to go to the fair. We went and he seemed to try real hard to make me "happy". I just dont understand why he's is acting like this!!!!????

V, or anybody, can you explain this wishy washyness to me please!!! And do I ask him to leave again???

Yes, I truly believe I have done a good plan A!
If you have been doing a good Plan A, then explain how the following statements fit into a good Plan A?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two weeks ago WH told me on fri. that he had to go because he misses talking to OW! Told him pack his things!

Also, the only reason I pretended the phone call is because I have tried every thing else, and nothing seems to be working!!

I said you are crazy,

I asked him again what his plans were and if he has decided when he was leaving

I said NO, I have a date!

He then took shower, but while in shower I went outside with my cell phone and pretended to call someone! … He came to door and saw me and then asked me who was I talking to, I said a friend,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Yes, I truly believe I have done a good plan A!

One year of Plan A is too long..... should be 6 months, TOPS!

Why the limit?.... because an extended Plan A actually promotes cake-eating.... if you Plan A for 2 years, your H will cake-eat for 2 years.... Plan A for 3 years, you'll get 3 years of cake-eating.

I really havent been angry and dont want to punish him!

This is a NON emotional discussion.... it is not about anger or punishment... it is about YOU making a PLAN to save your marriage.... doing things the smart way.

END of discussion about anger or punishment.... let's talk smart plan from here on out

I just want him to stop flip flopping on me and threatening to leave every 2 weeks!

And this is the result of a much too long Plan A....


V, or anybody, can you explain this wishy washyness to me please!!!

I think your wishy-washyness has begat his wishy-washyness!!!

If you want HIM to make up his mind , in or out of the marriage.... then you are going to have to make up your mind first!!


And do I ask him to leave again???

No, you don't ask him anything right now.... You need to get ready for Plan B, and you NEVER warn your spouse that Plan B is coming.... and you need to do Plan B right, or your H will have no reason to believe you mean business.

You need to take a firm stand about what your marriage means to you, and if it means H stops his affair.... then there is no compromise on this issue.

Read all this site's information about Plan B letters.... start a draft of yours.... and post it on a new thread asking for help with the Plan B letter.... "Chris" is particularly good at the Plan B letters. Let the rest of us advise about Plan B letter changes that may be suggested.

YOur H will flip-flop as long as you allow it to continue. He's too weak to stop this on his own, he's like an addict ... and you need to create a crisis that makes H VERY UNCOMFORTABLE and only then will H make up his mind one way or another.

Many BS are afraid of Plan B.... but that position is fear-based and is as wishy-washy as the WS being afraid to give up their lover.

While you get all your ducks lined up for Plan B.... ramp up your Plan A by meeting your H's needs the best way you know how. Avoid LB's crying, relationship discussions, demands, pouting, etc. Make your H feel you are the most amazing woman in the world... then *wham* Plan B strikes.... and he is now in severe withdrawl from you... the love of his life!

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sabot:
<strong> Yes, I truly believe I have done a good plan A! I really havent been angry and dont want to punish him! I just want him to stop flip flopping on me and threatening to leave every 2 weeks! Also, the only reason I pretended the phone call is because I have tried every thing else, and nothing seems to be working!! He makes comments like: you and another man friend of his would look good together!! This is so hurtful to me!

Well, last night when I got home he asked me if I wanted to go to the fair. We went and he seemed to try real hard to make me "happy". I just dont understand why he's is acting like this!!!!????

V, or anybody, can you explain this wishy washyness to me please!!! And do I ask him to leave again??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Chris, it doesn't sound like you've done a very good Plan A at all. And if you started on a really really good Plan A and lately you've been backsliding from it, it's because of what Pep said...it's gone on too long. Rather than slide into LoveBusting you should have gone immediately to Plan B.

But I'm assuming no really good Plan A has happened yet...
If you HAD done a good Plan A, here is how you would have reacted:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WH told me on fri. that he had to go because he misses talking to OW </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wrong reaction was: "told him to pack his things!" - this is a BIG LoveBuster!
correct reaction: Calmly state "I want you to know it hurts me that you still feel like talking to her." And walk away.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I asked him if he still meant what he said night before, he said yes, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wrong reaction: "I said, what is your plan? Where are you going to stay?" - pressuring him will only back him into a corner and he will bolt to OM for sure!
correct reaction: don't ask him what his plans are at all. Let events run their course until it gets ridiculous and you have to go to Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> then told me he needed to call her back and went outside to call her! Came in house and asked me if I was going to BBQ and I said... he said I dont want to go w/o you??? ...he said What? Did I say something mean?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wrong responses to those questions:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"No go by yourself,"</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Said how bout it I go get two plates and bring them home?"</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I just looked at him and started bawling, I said you are crazy, you ask me that after you go outside our house and call OW? "</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> All of these are, again, big LoveBusters.

correct responses:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Yes, I would love to go with you to the BBQ (even if you don't want to)</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No bawling, very calm - "it hurt me and was disrespectful of you to call OW in my presence."</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I asked him again what his plans were and if he has decided when he was leaving...he said NO, are you pushing me out the door? (laughing) I told him YES, I need you to GO..you have hurt me so much and disrespected me too much and I want to be with someone who wants to be with me and treat me w/respect! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, nothing but ultimatums and pressure and LoveBusting with anger, sarcasm, and bitterness. Not even CLOSE to Plan A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said, are you going by yourself? I said NO, I have a date! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DID you REALLY have a date? And if so - WHY? Why are you making dates if you want your WH back?
And if you lied to make him jealous - that's a huge LoveBuster, now you are lying for revenge and using anger and bitterness against him. He will run to OW for sure if you keep that up, that also is not even CLOSE to being Plan A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> while in shower I went outside with my cell phone and pretended to call someone! He came to door and saw me and then asked me who was I talking to, I said a friend, again the look on his face was hurt and anger. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, you are LYING to him, purposely trying to hurt him, to make him jealous, to hurl your anger at him. Revenge never works, and is never sweet enough in the long run.
Do YOU really feel better for hurling nothing but anger and revenge at him? Honestly?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have been playing with this man threatening to leave me for a year now and I think I am losing my respect!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like most WS's I've seen here, they waffle back and forth between being loving and warm, and being distant and cold. They go back and forth between wanting YOU and wanting the OP.
This is normal. But what you're doing is punishing him for not making a quick decision, you're holding that confusion against him rather than helping him come out of it. YOUR actions are making things WORSE, not better. It's no wonder it's gone on for a year, if this is the way you've been behaving!

Again...sorry for the 2x4, but you really need to snap out of it and re-read the basics of Plan A and DO THEM.

If you're trying to push him closer to OW and leave for good, you're doing a great job. If that's what you truly want, then respectfully and quietly and lovingly suggest separation (Plan B) and make it happen.

Thank you so much all of you, as brutal as you are, I need and appreciate your honesty. It seems I have been so hurt by all this that I can't see the forest for the trees so to speak and I feel I have tried to save my H and my M for so long now that I thought that when one way doesnt work, then try another approach! Even a radical one! (which I know was completely immature and not like me at all) Just so you do have the correct picture of my situation, so you can truly help me, let me say that I really have tried to follow all these guidlines to the hilt, I have bought all the books they publish on this issue, read them over and over again. The last time he told me that he missed talking to her and had to go, I followed this program to the letter, I tried the comforting, loving, understanding wife approach. I shared with him some info on this site and the statistics and why hes feeling like he is, he commented that he thinks he's different. I said to him that I am here for you to help you thru this and that he can share his feelings about her with me, he said "you dont want to hear about her". He said "why are we making each other miserable?" So I asked him if we could negotiate and woould he stay until I was comfortable in my new job which was starting that monday. He said "yes, I can do that". It always seems that he wants to be closer to me after we have these discussions about him leaving, which is strange to me.

Ok, I think I understand what you are advising me is the CORRECT way to respond to him. But to make sure, what are you saying I should say to him the next time he tells me he's talking to her and therefore needs to leave our marriage? This is the one that makes me lose my mind! Also, are you saying that I should (knowing that he is not abiding by N/C and talking to her on phone)just sit back and act like its not happening? Until he pops up again saying he has to leave?

Others tell me that he is doing this only because I let him and that I should respect myself more and he is losing respect for me because I put up with it. They say I should admit its over and kick him out, but follow thru no matter what he does.(that his crying is just a tactic) I dont believe that tho. I am so confused, he is playing on my heartstrings like a fiddle and I love him so much I cant stand to see him hurting so therefore I cant follow thru. I need a room with a view, just bring me cigs!!!! I truly have lost my mind!!! I feel so empty, I am trying to save my H and he doesnt want to be saved!!

Ok, thanks to all of you for your guidance, tho brutal, I needed it and appreciate your honesty! 2x4 earned and accepted!!

Just so you know more of situation so you can give me correct guidance, I have followed all guidlines of this site to the "T" until this weekend when I guess I lost it! I have bought all books on this subject and have read them over and over.

Weekend before this one I was still following Plan A guidlines and presented the image of the comforting, loving, understanding wife and shared with H statistics of this site and that he was not alone in this that I am here for him, whatever it takes! I hugged him, loved him, told him to share his feelings about her with me and I will do my best to help him thru his pain! It seems that whenever we have these discussions he moves closer to me for some reason, I dont know if its because he feels threatened or guilty? Then I hear people telling me that he is only doing this because I am letting him and he is losing respect for me! Thats when I become confused and my pride steps in only because I DONT want to do the wrong thing! So I think I understand what you are telling me I need to do, but to be clear, are you saying that even tho he refuses the N/C and I know he is still talking to her and coming home to a faithful, loving, completely giving, understanding wife, that I just ignore it and act everyday like all is well? Then when he hits me like a brick wall again, next week, and says "I need to leave you" what should be my response? This is where I lose my mind. I swear I need a room with a view!

Pep, I have read so many nice things about you!

Your knowledge is greatly appreciated and needed from the bottom of my heart (which means alot right now because it is so torn).

Are you telling me that when I told him I needed him to go because he wanted to but could not decide to, that this was not a form of Plan B???? I told him that he needed to get a mediator because when he leaves I do not wish to talk to him that I was moving on with my life and he was not going to be aloud to step in and out when he chose. Told him I loved him and he said he knows that!

Geez Pep, he has been holding his leaving over my head for 2 weeks, saying he was still leaving just didnt know when!! How much "Emotional Abuse" is one person supposed to deal with? Ok, so tell me how do I do "Appropriate" Plan B???

Are you telling me that when I told him I needed him to go because he wanted to but could not decide to, that this was not a form of Plan B????

That is not Plan B, you are correct, that is what I am saying.

Plan B has steps. There is a love letter, (The PBL) which clearly states why you are doing Plan B and clearly spells out what the WS can do to end Plan B.

Plan B is never an emotional outburst.

It is calm, well-planned, and has a goal with measurable results for the WS.


I told him that he needed to get a mediator because when he leaves I do not wish to talk to him that I was moving on with my life and he was not going to be aloud to step in and out when he chose. Told him I loved him and he said he knows that!

Not Plan B... go read the thread that was written by "Spacecase" it was recently bumped up. Samples of Plan B letters.

It has to be in writing so there is no room for misinterpretation or saying crap like ---> "I didn't hear you say that I had to end phonecalls to come home."

It'as all in writing so the WS can re-read when he wants to come back.

Geez Pep, he has been holding his leaving over my head for 2 weeks, saying he was still leaving just didnt know when!! How much "Emotional Abuse" is one person supposed to deal with? Ok, so tell me how do I do "Appropriate" Plan B???

Read up about Plan B.... It's in SAA. and on this site.

Pep