I like the new sig better, DV!

I have those reconciliation dreams now and then, but my W is always uncertain and half-hearted in them. My dreams involving her are no fun, across the board.

Happy new year, sis!

GC

(((((((((GC))))))))))

Happy New Year bud. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm wondering about 'shiny things'.

You know - when my H and I got married, I was a flawed creature (unlike my goddess-like state today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). My husband knew that - and he married me anyway. In looking back, I'm actually wondering if that's a LARGE reason he felt 'safe' with me in the first place. Because he saw me as being flawed - he figured that his flaws were ok too.

Like in the book Passionate Marriage. We like to think of ourselves as the more 'differentiated' one - but the truth is 'like' seeks out 'like'.

gc:

I'm going 2 differ with others here, in that I think you screwed up big time on NYE... ...what the hell is a bright guy like you doing smoking??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry, couldn't resist. Let's chalk it up 2 "recreational cruelty" or something.

You're a really good man, gc. I do understand the longing 2 be rewarded for good behavior. I have 2 catch myself when I get down because they don't come, because the depression feeds on itself and chews me up in the process.

--ol' 2long

GC -

Think you could do any good in the case of the drummer? You have no idea how far it can go when someone sits down with you and says, "Look man, I know it's hard, but what you're doing isn't okay. You're hurting a ton of people... how about if you stop?"

Even if it seems that your words don't get through, I guarantee they won't be forgotten.

Out of conversations like that, an entire culture changes its perspective.

But you gotta have the conversations.

J, I was thinking about it. I barely know the guy, but I think if there was some small, gentle way I could reach out (read: meddle), it could do some good.

GC

You know, complete strangers have helped me -- and people I barely knew. All it takes is a phone call and a question to start it out:
"Hey, I'm separated too. It can be really tough. Want a get a cup of coffee and compare notes?"

JJ:

I absolutely agree with that approach.

I have had 2 bite my tongue a few times lately with an otherwise very good friend and colleague, because I didn't want 2 reveal my W's A with him because:

He cheated on his live-in GF several years ago when he realized he's gay. He then married his partner, who is 20 yrs his junior. They broke up about a year and a half ago, and he's just putting his life back 2gether.

I could probably help by relaying my experiences, but I haven't wanted 2 expose 2 anymore other friends. not really needed now.

-ol' 2long

GC, this was very good that was said on the last page "It's a rocky road, but it's the high road and one we may both have to keep coming back to for awhile.

The good news is however things end up, maybe we will both know we did what we could do, and can move on (with or without spouses) - and with no regrets."

I've always maintained it will be a rough road no matter what happened and still believe that. also about behaving in a way in which i could look back and not have regrets. things are happening and your timeline will soon come ahead and then you will need to make some decisions. till then just get through each day, reach out to your support network and know that it does indeed get better and there are so many people that are pulling and praying for you, RR

Thanks, RR.

I told my New Year's story to a female friend last night. She doesn't entirely get me being so determined and disciplined in all this.

And I have to say - there's a certain amount of idealism to it.

Here are the very reasonable things my friend might say from time to time:

"Your marriage is over, you just aren't divorced yet. You should do whatever you want. It isn't your fault. Why should you suffer?"

"How could you ever take your wife back even if by some miracle she suddenly decided she wanted to reconcile?"

I think going the idealistic route leads to greater inner peace, even though it does mean depriving ourselves of certain external happiness, such as the sort you'd get from having a fling with a friend of the opposite sex, or from launching into a rebound, or from a ONS.

GC

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

Someday, there will be for all of us, a final curtain.

I believe it's just a curtain, and that we walk off stage to a new gig.

There are few things we get to take with us, but inner peace IS one of them. It is good to think about things............


THE MAN IN THE GLASS
When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day,
Just go to a mirror and look at yourself,
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn't your father or mother or wife,
Who judgment upon you must pass;
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one starring back from the glass.

He's the fellow to please, never mind all the rest.
For he's with you clear up to the end,
And you've passed the most dangerous, difficult test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years.
And get pats on the back as you pass,
But your final reward will be the heartaches and tears
If you've cheated the man in the glass.

Dale Wimbrow 1895-1954

So, Graycloud, you don't see recovery, but I do. Emotionally things still stink, but look in the mirror, and see if you see what I see.

I see someone that can live with himself. Someone who doesn't hate what he sees when he looks in the glass.

I think recovery has many faces, some of them are not there yet, some of them are coming along really well.

One of the things God can do, is take away some of the pain. Ask him, don't be afraid to make that request.

SS

SS:

That's a great poem!

GC:

I still think you should quit smoking. Tends 2 murk up that mirror! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Let's see... if the sparrow is one of those people for whom inner peace, and self-respect, and a life based on trying to heal pain rather than create it, are not important... then I guess she's not somebody I should want in my life. But I still do want her in my life, and I would love for her to strive for those things. But that's her own struggle, and I can't help her in it I suppose.

Which is not to say that I'm a superstar myself in those respects, but I try.

2long, I will. Quit, I mean. FWIW I haven't smoked today, and it's 5:30 P.M.

GC

GC:

And now that it's past 5:30, there's always beer!

I once saw a bumper sticker on the back of a tool salesman's truck that said "Every man should have at least one vise!"

I've got 2! One in the garage, and one in my shop! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Gray,
You want to help the Sparrow obtain gifts that she is not willing to accept, but that she really needs.

I think that's part of your sadness - and one reason it is taking a long time. I see that as good, not bad. I would worry more if you got over it quickly.

SS

2long,
don't get me started on tools. My Grand Dad was a mechanic, he started in the 20's, and retired in the late 60's. I grew up in his shop, and it was so hard to get married, move away for a time, and be without virtually anything I needed.

I have his vise, and steel workbench now - but not the valve grinding machine, the air jacks, or the steam cleaner. Oh well.

SS

Last night I had two dreams.

In the first, the sparrow came home to me, asked me to forgive her, said she wanted to try to save our M, and humbly asked for my help. She was still uncertain in many ways, but had realized she still loved me and didn't want to hurt me any more. Her life had gone into a tailspin. Her affair had ended badly, and she had stayed with various acquaintances for many weeks, trying to muster the courage to reach out to me. She kissed me many times. When I told her I wanted her to be tested for STDs, she excitedly said, "Yeah, me too!" Thrilled to do whatever it took to get back into my life.

I woke up, had a glass of water. The dream had felt real. I was disappointed. I fell back to sleep.

In the second dream, she came to see me, telling me she wanted me to talk. But clearly she only wanted me to be "friends". When I talked about how her cheating and abandonment had hurt me, she casually agreed: "Yeah, that must have sucked." Or she would be confused: "You've cried a lot? Really? Why?" She was perfectly content in her new life. The affair had been accepted by all, and she seemed to have no guilt. She wanted to laugh and joke about 2004, like it was all water under the bridge and everyone had moved on and could look back on it and laugh. I said, "This is not funny! I'm still in the middle of this!" To which the sparrow just shrugged.

GC

wow, GC...how odd to have such polar dreams!

Hope you're doing well.

GC, my dear friend,
I'm so sorry these disappointing dreams haunted you last night. I wish there was something we could do to assauge the hurt a bit. Just know that there are people you've never met who are there to listen and confide in - just as your kindness to them has touched so many.

(((GC)))

Have a hot cocoa on me and get extra mushmallows.

- Kimmy

Golly, thanks Kimmy.

Just had something strange happen.

One of the sparrow's oldest friends just called my cell phone and asked for the sparrow. I recognized her voice and we started talking. She said, "That's so weird, the sparrow emailed me your cell number."

Anyway, she's freaked, because the sparrow wants to take OM and get together with this old friend and her partner, who when he heard of it said, "I don't want to hang out with him, I like Gray."

So she doesn't know what to do about that, but since I don't ever talk to the sparrow, the friend offered to secretly stay friends with me.

The sparrow giving her my cell number, that's pretty funny.

Hearing that the sparrow wants to do "couple" things with OM tells me the affair is just fine, which is a drag.

GC

GC