Sounds like she's still seeking validation.

Is it true? The part about others accepting the si2ation? I honestly don't remember all that well.

I wonder if the defacation will hit the ventilation when OM's and car4love's next baby is born. Soon, right?

best,
-ol' 2long

2long, I think many have stopped resisting because they find it to be futile. Her family has resisted pretty hard, OM's family thinks the whole thing is swell.

But I guess she still has to fight to make the affair legitimate. From what her friend told me, it sounds like people are polite and just shake their heads and roll their eyes when the sparrow isn't looking.

The baby is coming at the end of the month, and I have a feeling it won't change a thing.

That info about the proposed "double date" knocked the wind out of me. That old familiar sensation...

GC

Gray,

No comment on Sparrow right now. I want to talk music!

Well as you know I have always been a rocknroller (well also a closet Bocelli fan) but someone on here was talking about Etta James, so of course I had to check her out. And oh my gawd, I am in love! What a voice! Have you listened to "I'ld Rather Go Blind" ? I just can't get enough of her! Oh and I came across some Ottis Redding too. Man oh man what voices! Well you probably can't listen to them because of Sparrow, but I can and I am so excited. "These Arms of Mine" and "I've Been Loving You Too Long"!

My DD's dad is a very talented musician, and when we broke up (10 years ago) I stopped music all together because it was so painful for me (piano was my thing) but now I am back in love with music, and it makes me so very happy again!

Just thought I'd share that because I know you would understand.

PS Hi Kimmy! I never get to talk to you anymore but am still reading the foxfire books you turned me onto, thank you!

Weaver, I'm a freak for Etta and Otis both.

I sang Otis' "That's How Strong My Love Is" at my friends' wedding back in September. I had to write a new verse for it because it's so short, but it was a great wedding tune.

GCC

Weaver, another thing.

Sometimes sad love songs get me down, but usually they help. If I feel them pulling me down the cracks, I grab my guitar and work on my own stuff, and that usually keeps me earthbound.

Pop music saves lives, I think.

GC

Threadjack:

weaver:

"and "I've Been Loving You Too Long"!"

You have??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, thanks for that. I know you mean it platonically (not plutonically, and thus appropriately) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Speaking of beautiful female voices, that's why I've been using part of a Bel Canto song in my sig line. I truly hope that some music lovers out there will check them out. The lead vocalist, Anneli Drecker, has the most amazing voice, in ol' 2long's humble opinion...

:End of Threadjack

-ol' 2long

Oh no! Now I gotta check that one out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Weaver, listen to the band Hem. Their vocalist, Sally Ellyson, is really something.

www.rabbitsongs.com

GC

Okay I will, thanks!

I'm trying to change my "pirating" ways, and turned a new leaf to pay for my music, so thanks for the link and I won't download.

I might make an exception to 2longs girl though, because I have to download to listen. Is that "pirating"?

Oh and I just have to say one more thing about Etta James - "Trust In Me", now if I was a guy that would give me a well you know a "cedar", I love it that much!

Weaver, if a band offers downloads on its website, you have been given implicit permission to use them. Hem has a live cut of themselves covering "The Tennessee Waltz" on their site, as well as samples of several of their own tunes.

I still download things over peer-to-peer networks, because I treat it like radio. If I like someone enough to listen to their song all the time, I go out and buy their CD. If not, then I delete the song.

(stepping to soapbox)

The premise that downloading hurts musicians, while widely accepted in the popular media, is unproven. Truth is, if anything, it threatens the music business establishment, who are all just part of a legalized skim that exploits musicians anyway.

Thanks for helping me stop thinking about that phone call!

GC

*snicker* Yep, all's well in sparrow's world, which is why she's giving out your number so that her friends can call you instead of her.

No matter what's up with her consciously, you're still in her head unconsciously.

May not do any good at all, of course -- I'm sure I'm still in my ex's unconscious too. But it's something. Remember -- you haunt her dreams as much as she haunts yours.

J, thanks. That is a funny slip for her to have made. Our numbers are similar, but she's had no need to remember my number for ages.

How does a person ignore that stuff that's going on deep down inside?

Me, I woke up with my head spinning from those dreams. It shifted my perspective in the most tweaked way for the first hour I was up, the way well-remembered dreams sometimes can.

GC

yep, that's what they do, the WS/OP try to legitamize and normalize what they are doing. they don't see the people rolling their eyes and talking behind the backs because they are in denial and are only out for themselves. when i basically got it out of my h that he was bringing his girlfriend to meet his parents back in july and had asked him how that was being respectful, his answer was all that he was trying to do was lead a normal life. how is it normal to be married and not even have filed for divorce, still lying to your spouse even though they know your having an affair, and bringing your girlfriend cross country to meet your family? how is that normal? what kind of world are you living in if you think that is normal and that it's okay to do that? just chalk it up to the fog and that someday they will reap what they sow even if it's when they stand before God. straight from SH, no matter what they do or what happens, these R's started as A's and that will never ever change.

okay, enough of my rant.......

Etta James "At Last" is one of my favorites. too bad it makes me think of the adulterer who really liked her.

have a good weekend and continued prayers to you, RR

Tonight I went out with some friends. One of my buddies' girlfriend brought a work friend, a very, very cute girl.

I felt a nice little attraction between us. But it was obvious that even if I was without baggage, a serious relationship between us would never work out. She likes to shop for swanky clothes and jewelry - not at all my type. But I bet she'd go out with me if I offered.

Now, given that I believe that having no-strings relationships is all right, when it's happening between adults who have no childrenk, know the risks, and are mature enough to accept them...

Is there any reason that, even if I'm not ready to find a new partner to share my whole entire life with, I should avoid having a few laughs with such a person after I'm divorced?

I may still be "attached" to the sparrow at that point, but really, must my obligation to my marriage remain until I'm ready for another serious relationship?

I have lots of potential dates out there, and I don't want to hurt anybody. But I'm also not too thrilled with the idea of being divorced and still living like a monk for another 1 1/2 years.

I do not want to rationalize having an unhealthy relationship. But it seems a little silly to sequester myself after I'm divorced. Who am I kidding? It seems a lot silly.

GC

Gray,

My only concern for you casually dating is the possibility of hurting someone. I suppose that if you are honest about your feelings, don't let yourself get too involved, then it might be okay.

What if somebody falls in love with you, you think she might be the one and then sparrow wants to come back?

Even though you are probably incapable of falling in love right now, the girl might fall in love very easily.

Well I guess that would be her problem, if you wanted to look at it that way.

I don't know, I am having a very hard time with this myself.

I don't have a lot of opinions about how long people should wait and all that other stuff. I would not judge someone for dating after they had just been through the most destructive and devastating experience of their life. In fact I give them a lot of credit for even having the ability to date again.

Just don't hurt anyone Gray. And that is my profound advice for the day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

She likes to shop for swanky clothes and jewelry

Now what is wrong with that Gray? What is "swanky"? I love funky clothes and shopping! So I think she must be okay!

Is swanky the same as funky?

Atleast she doesn't like to shop for "slutty" clothes. That might be a little hard to get used to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm not encouraging you to date though, or discouraging it either. On your own there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Weaver, she's like a peacock! Lots of jewelry, wears a big coat trimmed with fake fur, talked about how she likes to spend money and date total jerks. She flunked a bowling class she took for a college phyed requirement because she didn't want to stick her fingers in the bowling ball and screw up her nails. Very charming girl.

I think I'm being a little impatient. This affair could still blow up, even after I'm divorced. I'll think about it again when the divorce is done.

GC

Oy my gosh, that was funny! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well glad I could help you come to terms with your question and then answer it for yourself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you for explaining "swanky" to me! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

gc:

Besides, it's the MALE peacock that has the "swanky" feathers!

I'm not suggesting you "2rn her over" 2 make sure, though...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

So it is, 2long. She's quite a girl, that one.

Which leads me to what is increasingly a problem for me.

I can't see a future with the sparrow any more. I don't see her as a good person doing a bad thing because she's an addict. I view her as a truly negative force, empty in her spirit and lacking principle, interested only in external sources of happiness.

I can't save her. I can't help her or serve as a guide to her. I can't ask her to help me with my own shortcomings. She lacks the ability to share any kind of spiritual path with me or anyone else. I don't know if I can forgive her.

I'm still hurt very much when I hear about her activities. I have unmistakable physical reactions to information. And I still maintain my position as the defender of my marriage. I am still not at all motivated to do what I need to do to help this divorce get settled.

So I'm not looking for an excuse to change anything I'm doing. I just no longer see reconciliation in my future.

I think the sparrow and OM may have just the right degree of emptiness in their hearts that they will stay together and lock all their guilty feelings away forever.

Quite a downer of a post, but there just seems to be no more reason to have any hope for this marriage.

But I'm still, somehow, not ready to give up. Maybe the problem is with me. Maybe I'm too grateful to her for ever loving me.

GC