okay, if you're up for it i would like your opinion on a few things. when reading your plan B letter it looks like a very good letter for our situations with one big difference. sparrow did not ever send or say anything to you that asked you to stop talking or seeing her. well my husband did send me a letter. a 4 page typed letter that stated all the things i did and didn't do in the marriage, all the things that he did, and that he had to move out of our house because it depressed him too much, that i shouldn't call him, i shouldn't try to find him or her even though he knew i could (his words) and that if i did need to communicate to email him. he maintains that i will never let him go if we continue to talk and that he doesn't love me anymore, that we need to move on, that he just wants things to be normal, etc.

so i'm just not sure how to do a letter of my own given the fact he essentially did it to me. also i cannot think of one single person that i could use as an intermediary other than my lawyer. you know the story of his family in that they have not contacted me whatsoever since dday (he's the oldest of 7 kids) and i don't want him calling my mom for anything UNLESS it would be to say he wants to work on our M. my family, his family, me, and my husband all live in separate states (4 different states). we have no mutual friends that live where he is so what should i do?

this may seem trivial but did you actual write out OM's name or did you just say other person? i don't think i want to even put her name in my letter.

as i've said before, i really see my letter as being more of a good bye letter. allowing me a chance to say a few things like admit i was wrong but yet say what he is doing is wrong, voice that i still love him and want to rebuild our M but unless he wants to do that i cannot talk to him or see whatsoever. again, i can't really do this for a couple of weeks because of the whole house and household goods thing. i have a slight feeling that he is waiting until the house is sold to actually file for a D but i don't know anymore. i still expect it everyday so a lot could happen between now and 11/1/04 (day of closing on house). i'm not even going to be there at the closing, i will be signing the papers at my lawyers office the friday before.

i will be in florida on 10/23/04 and will be leaving no later than 10/31/04. the movers will be coming on 10/28/04 so i have to know from him by then what he's going to take or not, after that i really don't have a reason to communicate with him. i still pay everything except his car payment, credit card, his cell phone, and the bills associated w/the house. but if/when it comes down to a D then i will be fighting or doing what i can to make sure the bills get split 50/50 which what they should be according to florida law (per my lawyer as long as they were incurred during the marriage). i would probably mail him a letter while i was in florida, maybe even do it certified mail.

anyway, give me what your take is and thanks in advance,RR

this is tough, RR. A couple of questions, if you will...

I know that your husband does not necessarily share the same religous views that you do. But isn't he a student of theology or something similar? even if he did not share the same value, was he always understanding? Was he receptive to your beliefs, even if he did not follow the same?

2nd part of questions...because I'm wondering if this would not have some affect...a tiny chip, if you will.

You've stated that you're not sure how to be friends with your H. That you don't feel that you were ever friends like some of us have felt that we were with our spouses. Do you feel like that could be an important aspect IF you were to ever ever ever reconcile with your spouse? I'm not saying that's your goal or that you should be thinking that way. But let's pretend everything is perfect..do you feel that friendship is an important part of marriage? Do you feel that things might've been different with your H had there been a friendship?

No right or wrong answer...but there are things you might be able to tweak about GC's letter for your own situation, according to how you answer above.

**editing in**

PS The reason I'm asking...

I see that you're viewing this as mostly a goodbye letter. But really..what would be the point if SOME part of you didn't still hope for a reconciliation (not expect, but hope). I think that is a good thing..but also important to realize whether it's true or not. If it is truly a goodbye letter..then I don't think you should do it at all. But if you'd like to leave the door at least UNLOCKED...I think there might be things you could write that you would not write in a goodbye letter.

<small>[ October 13, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: maddyk ]</small>

First easy answers.

In my letter, I changed the part that says "end your relationship with OM" to "end your affair". I don't want the stink of him on the letter.

Regarding the plan B letter vs. goodbye letter, that's a harder question.

Even though your H has asked you for no communication, YOU have not given him the message that you are no longer available to him. Whether or not he's taken advantage of your availability is not the most important point. You can still inform him that you're taking yourself out of the game.

You've spoken with SH many times, you've been here a lot, and you are smart. You can design your own plan.

So I think perhaps you should unshackle yourself from it having to be a strict plan B letter.

Like you say, an ordinary plan B doesn't make practical sense.

So figure out what you want the letter to accomplish.

You don't have to follow the plan A/B rules, RR. You understand the principles that those rules are based on. So based on those principles, figure out what should go in this letter.

The rest of us can help.

GC

maddy,
well maybe i'm not using the term goodbye letter in the way i thought. i guess again, i'm just confused as to where i would be in doing a letter when my H has already done one to me. so i'll stop calling it a goodbye letter because i DEFINITELY want to leave the door unlocked.

to answer some of your questions, he is a religious history major and "thinks" he wants to teach in that field. but if you want my total honest opinion i believe deep down that he is using this as a scapegoat in order to NOT chose any particular belief. does that make sense? he was raised catholic and he definitely doesn't agree w/all those beliefs and likes debate on some of these issues but really he has not been this way except for the last few years. he was receptive to my beliefs even made a public profession of faith several years ago in my church. but i feel like it was more to make me happy but only God knows if it was genuine or not and i do give my h the benefit of the doubt that at the time it was sincere.

however, i was not receptive to his receptiveness of my faith (that will really make you go huh?) by that i mean i was basically it was my way or the highway and "beat" him over the head w/it and basically did a 180 a few years after we were married and hence the reason why i think he joined my church was in effort to make sense of what i was doing at the time. i believed (and still do) that you can't pick and chose what you believe in the Bible. For instance, how can you believe that God sent his son to die on the cross for our sins but not believe he created the universe or vice versa and that is where our differences laid at the time. therefore, he's pretty much chosen to be "religious" without chosing a particular faith. he has just said some things in the past that have just really made me wonder and not want to have kids with him because i was afraid of all the problems that would arise because of these issues.

it really just go to the point we never talked about it just to avoid arguments. it didn't help that really for the first few years we were married that i basically told him he needed to stand up to his dad and family and not go to their church or do things if he didn't truly believe in them. however, now i know better and really feel i can be respectful to anyone's beliefs now.i truly can and what's more amazing is that most of our non-relationship conversation has been centered around religion. it interest him and i have learned how to be respectful and discuss thing like adult and afterall, we are ALL entitled to our own opinions. he has said several times how it has been nice to discuss things the way we have been since dday and his eyes would get real big and he'd kind of get excited to talk about "things" that he has learned about, etc.

hope that has answered your first questions.

to answer your questions about friendship. that's one of the things i have taken away from this whole experience is how important it is to be best friends w/your spouse. although that alone does not keep people from having A's. i would definitely make that an integral part of reconciliation/marriage. which i still want. i do feel that things would be different if we had had a true friendship because we would have met more of each other's needs and talked more. but again, i've read plenty of people here who were "best friends" w/their spouse and they still cheated. of course, they many reasons why a spouse cheat but i think you get what i'm saying.

i still want and hope for reconciliation but i try not to allow myself to think about something that may never happen and just try to take things one day at a time. but i feel that things are starting to get inevitable w/me. that i'm almost becoming a WS in my mind and since i refuse to be the one to file for D, i'm just not sure what to do. i do not wish for my H to file just so i can get out of limbo land, i think the more time goes by the better but hard as i might i cannot control every thought that goes in my head and i do want companionship and affection and resent that my H is doing what he's doing and there's nothing i can do about it.

so i don't know maybe a letter is just my way of still trying to exihibit some control but again, maybe the point is moot if he's already done it to me.

thanks for the input.

RR, another few thoughts. Maddy has good ideas, by the way.

It's good to know what you mean to accomplish, make lists, take inventory, then try to compose something that covers all the points you mean to make.

It's also good to speak from the heart, and completely improvise.

So how about this suggestion:

If you think my PBL might be a decent enough starting point (by the way, it's hardly an original work as you know), put that in front of you.

And then take a blank page and start writing. Write anything, everything, that is on your mind. Write a freakin' screed. Vent, beg, curse, judge, educate. Write about love, about what you've learned about it, about your pain, about your hopes, whatever.

Then think about what you hope to accomplish with the letter.

Now you've got two things on the table. A strict plan B, and next to it a possibly long and disconnected stack of prose with probably some very beautiful things in it. And in your mind you have what you hope to accomplish.

And then you can maybe try to create frankenletter.

Just a suggestion.

GC

Graycloud has a great idea with writing a stream of conciousness kind of thing. You never know what kind of gems you will find in there..both for your letter and for YOURSELF. I think it would help you sort out your own thoughts too, rr. You are understandably torn and confused about many things..and even that changes from time to time, i suspect.

My main reason for asking about religion was to know if your husband was at least willing to look at your beliefs. Your religious values are very important to you and I think you would be remiss in leaving them out of a letter. BUT, you should not be too heavy-handed with--especially in light of what you said about your past experiences with him.

I guess where I am going with this is that your husband SEEMS to be bound for the divorce. None of us except for him can say why he has not filed yet. It could be for the reasons he said, but I, like you, believe that where there is a will, there is a way. While I think that it is important that you "move on" (and you have in many important ways), I think you could put something in the letter to the effect that while God certainly makes allowances for the divorce, it is not his wish and not what He prefers. God does not GRANT divorces. It's hard to articulate what I mean here. In the past your husband has expressed his lack of understanding for you standing by him. Seems that he has seen it as a lack of respect for yourself. We know that is far from the truth. But if you express your reasons for wanting to save the marriage, I think your marital promise and God's preference should be some of those reasons given, along with your love for your H. I hope I'm making sense here. I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be, but overall I think it would be important to briefly relay how your beliefs play into some of this for you.

You might also want to express your regret for not knowing how to form a friendship with your husband. I think that if you do as graycloud suggested with the stream of conciousness writing, you will find the right words to express this.

And rr...you can always write the letter and feel it out. Have us feel it out with you. No one said you ever have to send it. And since you've pretty much stopped your sessions with SH...you could give it a little time so you've got the money, and do one more session simply in regards to the letter.

well you guys have definitely given me lots of things to think about. i will try to do what has been suggested. of course my brain is just run amok w/things right now after reading the replies. but i will chew on things and get back to you, that is if you are really sure you want to hear them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

gotta go for the day, thanks again and prayers to you both, RR

Well i've done some thinking and used what you guys suggested to taylor graycloud's letter to fit more my situation so tell me you think.

Dear WH,

In all our years together, I never imagined us reaching the point where we are today and I’m certain you didn’t either. I love you more than anything else in this world, and I want to remain married to you. I am sorry for the things I did - and did not do - that helped make your infidelity possible. I am sorry that we were not best friends as a husband and wife should be, putting each other as the top priority. I still miss you very much and wish we could be sharing the things that are going on in each of our lives because I think we would make a good team, especially after all we’ve learned.

I have told you I will always be there for you, and that I mean to forgive you. But your affair continues to inflict great pain on me and I also feel shows a great deal of disrespect to many people, including yourself. This pain and disrespect challenges my ability to forgive you, and will eventually destroy my love for you. I know that you are also hurting and I would give anything to help ease your pain. I truly believe in forgiveness, healing, and redemption for both of us. God does not like or want people to get divorced and I believe through God’s grace we could have a marriage where both of us would be happy, more happy and wonderful then we ever thought it could be if we worked together. I cherish the love I have for you but to preserve my love, I cannot see or talk to you any longer. I know a couple of months ago you said something similar about not wanting to talk to me or see me anymore but it was for different reasons. I still felt it was necessary to have some contact due to the house and bills. But now that the house is sold and some bills have been paid off I think it would be best to not communicate for I feel hard feelings are beginning to develop.

If you need to communicate with me it would really be for legal matters and for that my attorney can be contacted. I will still continue to take care of the bills I have been paying until something is done officially. I trust that you will also continue to pay for the things that you have said you would.

WH, my wish is for us to create a new relationship, to build a new life where each thing we do, every day of our lives makes us both happy. My willingness to do this in the worst of times is part of the promise I made to you eleven years ago. You fell in love with me once, said that you wanted to spend the rest of your life with me and freely chose to marry me. And I do still believe in you. If you end your affair and you choose to discuss returning to a life with me, I will welcome the discussion. Until that time, it will not be possible for me to have any contact with you. I did honestly let you go a long time ago because I knew that it was necessary and that I couldn’t control you. But right now, letting you go and distancing myself from your actions as much as possible is the only way I can protect my heart. I don't do this in anger or haste; I am anything but mad, mainly just sad. I need to restore some normalcy in my life so that I can remain healthy, maintain the peace that I have been able to find due to God’s providence, and continue to grow as a human being.

Remember me and know that you are loved,

RR

Hey, RR...glad you posted..I've been checking in all day to see if you had.

First the things I particularly like:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still miss you very much and wish we could be sharing the things that are going on in each of our lives because I think we would make a good team, especially after all we’ve learned. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(like the "team" phrase, and the friend part before this quote)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I truly believe in forgiveness, healing, and redemption for both of us. God does not like or want people to get divorced and I believe through God’s grace we could have a marriage where both of us would be happy, more happy and wonderful then we ever thought it could be if we worked together.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(like this because I thought it was important that you include your religious beliefs in here)


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My willingness to do this in the worst of times is part of the promise I made to you eleven years ago. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(like this, but would change "willingness" to either commitment or desire. Willingnes has a connotation here that might not be taken right)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I do still believe in you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(just like it)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I need to restore some normalcy in my life so that I can remain healthy, maintain the peace that I have been able to find due to God’s providence, and continue to grow as a human being.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(I particularly like this because it shows your strength)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember me and know that you are loved,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(I love the "you are loved". Not sure about the "remember me" part, though)


Okay..since this is not really a "traditional" plan B letter, I'm not sure what to say about the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also feel shows a great deal of disrespect to many people, including yourself. This pain and disrespect challenges my ability to forgive you, and will eventually destroy my love for you. I know that you are also hurting and I would give anything to help ease your pain. I truly believe in forgiveness, healing, and redemption for both of us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know a couple of months ago you said something similar about not wanting to talk to me or see me anymore but it was for different reasons. I still felt it was necessary to have some contact due to the house and bills. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The first thing I quoted..I do not FEEL it would belong in a traditional plan B letter. It shows some judgement on your part...

bah someone just called and I lost my train of thought...

I would just think on those parts carefully

hey maddy, thanks for taking the time to read it. it is kind of a frankenletter as gray stated before since i used his plan B letter as a template.

my clarification at this point would be that i see him reading this and thinking "i told her months ago that i didn't want to talk to her or see her and now she's sending me this letter, what the ....?" so basically when i mentioned about the letter he sent me it was to say that i know what he said but his reasons for "plan b" are different then mine and that we did have to be in contact due to the house situation. i stopped short at saying "reasons were different" because i didn't want to go into that his plan B was at of guilt that he felt after our interactions and trying to make himself feel better by saying "it depresses me more than you know to be in our house." he also maintains that each time we talked it was ripping both of us a part, well that's his interpretation. i was fine with it because i strove hard not to talk about the R, it was him that brought up those type of things and i only responded. he says i won't let him go or haven't. i can honestly say that i have, i just haven't let go of the idea that i believe things could be better if we worked at things together.

as far as the respect thing, well i thought about it a lot and i want to leave this in there, maybe not in those exact words or phrasing but i do want to say something about respect. i actually feel respect is putting things mild, which is showing a lot of restraint on my part throughout all this (hence proves that i have changed). other around dday and a conversation in july i have never told him that what he is doing is wrong or even really talked about the A. this was part of "my" plan A but many would say that some of this could be construed as enabling the A. well i maintain that since you can't control another person or make them end the A what was i supposed to do? people would say that this was showing disrespect for myself. i talked about this w/SH and he encouraged me that what i was doing was tremendously respectful and that someday if/when my H woke up that he would respect the way that i was versus thinking that i didn't care because i basically put up with it.

so maybe there are parts of me that feel that maybe i should have been more purposeful in saying that what he was doing wrong to him. if this is my last communication w/him then i do want to say something to this regard. i mean how "disrespectful" is it to get involved w/someone else while you are still married even though they say it's only legally, to just be all hunky dorey w/her family and they know he's married but noone ever says anything, and that he introduces this girl to his family and says he's just trying to lead a normal life, introducing her as his girlfriend AND FOLKS HE IS STILL MARRIED AND IS HAVING SEX W/SOMEONE 13 YEARS YOUNGER THEN HIM. how is this even showing respect to her! that he is essentially saying i do not believe in the sanctity of marriage because i wasn't happy and i'll continue to see you because it's over and that's okay rather than say my marriage is over, i care enough for you that i don't think we should see each other until i have divorced.

so even though it will probably be perceived by him as a DJ, i honestly think at this point and compared to the absolutely horrific and enormous amount of DJ and disrespect he has shown me that i'm willing to live with this. maybe it's all about getting the last word. i don't know, i think that's a part of this too. but that's also why i wasn't really calling it a plan B letter because i knew it wasn't "traditional."

the other stuff that maybe didn't make sense weren't my original thoughts so i will have to keep thinking about it and how to change them. i'll probably post this again separately after i have made some changes.

thanks again so much for your input and thoughtfulness. i just read your "dork" post and i know you're going through some stuff too. prayers to you, RR

need to run out, rr, but want to respond to this later. If i can't make it home before you leave work for the day, look for it on Monday (not sure when you're planning on sending this).

In a nutshell..I understand what you said and don't disagree...just wanted to make sure you were thinking about the possible things it would tweak with him.

Will try to come back later!

RR, I have been reading. I agree with pretty much everything maddy said, including the criticisms of things that came out of the letter I sent.

My experience yesterday showed that even when plan B is redundant, it has meaning to the WS, the BS being the one who is forbidding contact instead of them.

I like your letter.

The most common thing I see in criticisms of plan B letters here is "DJ, DJ, DJ". Any judgement is seen as disrespectful, because that's how the other spouse will see it.

If you can live with the possibility that these judgements might cause your WH to view you in a slightly negative light, that's fine.

Just make sure everything you say is said out of love and concern, not out of belligerence or spite. I think you probably don't have much of those things in you anyway...

GC

thanks gray, i have to make this short but i just don't know anymore, i keep vascillating whether i should really send it or not. i still want to have one just in case i do decide to go ahead and i would need to have it done by next friday since that is when i'm going to florida to get my stuff moved. i basically would be sending it the day before i left florida (like send it from our house). i won't have computer access while i'm down there.

but i think about things some more over the weekend (well you can't help but think about things) but think more on how i REALLY want to leave things. wish i could get SH's approval but i'm not going to schedule a session just to that since it costs $185. but seems like any time i'm certain i should do this, i read a post by you or maddy and then change my mind. oh well...

take care and prayers to you, RR

RR, I say it's okay to be a little flaky about these plan B sorta situations.

I'm so sorry you're in this spot. There's something that I'm having a little trouble getting a handle on:

How's RR doing?

GC

Okay..I am again distracted and my thoughts won't be complete, but still wanted to respond.

roughroad, I completely understand about telling him how disrepectful and harmful to himself and others he has been. I fantasize about doing this, but do not feel it is the right time yet. At some time, I think every WS should hear, "Listen...take a good look at yourself. What the h** are you doing? How can you do this to yourself and others and still look in the mirror without shame burning your retinas?" Ideally it would not be the BS who does it, because I think that in some ways the WS will never ever ever be able to hear that kind of comment from a bs, whether they are in recovery or divorced. But most times, the BS is the only person who is willing to say it, if they are willing to do it at all. It is not just wanting to lash out at the WS, though for me that would be part of it. As long as you can live with whatever reaction he might have to your statements, then you should leave it in there.

Now on sending it. You have a little bit of time to mull this over...not much, but some. roughroad, you've gone through a very difficult time since this all began. At first you reacted with your heart. Then you came here and started reacting with your brain. At some point you NEED to let your heart see the light again. Yes, our feelings can be decieving and don't always let us know the right things to do. But they still exists and you cannot ignore them forever. And I hope that I do not offend you by saying this, but you also need to let your feelings take precedence even over God at some point. God wants you to follow His plan for you, but he does not want you to be perfect. God gave you feelings and emotions for a reason and just as it may be sinful to always follow those feelings, maybe it is just as sinful to never follow them.

I do not know what is in your heart, and maybe you don't either. But maybe you should listen to it over the weekend. I'm not talking about your love for your husband. I'm talking about how YOU, roughroad, want things to be now and in the future.

graycloud and maddyk,

well i'll try to answer both of your questions in one section. to be honest i don't know how i'm doing or what i want anymore. yes, i want my M to be rebuilt but i don't necessarily think that's going to happen either. of course, anyone in our (BS) place does a lot of thinking, you can't help but do that. the more i think about it the more mountainous the obstacles seem to be if we were ever on the road to recovery. at one point i was willing to do whatever it took to rebuild our M if my H would give us another chance, now i'm just really unsure.

but why am i unsure? here's where i'm going to be really honest, it's because i am picturing myself in another R w/someone else. i am totally ashamed of this, even though given the situation i probably shouldn't be. but the fact of the matter is that my H told me that his A "started" because she was just a pretty girl who was nice to him. so i'm pretty much lumping myself in the same category, that this man at church is first and foremost a Christian, attractive, has been so kind and helpful in doing things that i really needed help w/and had no one else to call (like flat tire, building a gate, lighting my furnance, etc.).

He also knows exactly what i'm going through (his XW had an A and left him and is now on her 4th boyfriend). 5 years later he is still praying for his XW but he is starting to question that and that maybe it's really time for him to move on. i think he is starting to feel this way because of me. just call it a gut feeling. but i think he sees me as someone who is also a Christian, attractive, and as someone who will never cheat on him.

so where does that leave me? i still maintain that i will not file for D because that's exactly what my H wants me to do and he is going to have to be the one that lives w/being the one who ended the M. that has got to be a consequence of his actions. i will not start another R until after I'm D'd but now i feel like i'm almost wishing it will happen (D). i have really really tried to talk about this hear w/out being as honest before. when i've said i think about R and how they will be and all the dynamics such as on the TV shows (i know their fake but you get my drift). i know that probably i'm feeling the way i am because i am lonely that i have not had a real good R w/my H for a long time and i know you should really wait 3-6mos after you are D before you see anyone. but i'm just wondering why would it be so wrong for me to see someone soon after i was D'd?

i have never had to deal w/this before. i really just had one boyfriend before i met my H which was the day after my 17th b-day. so i'm just having emotions and confusion that i have never had before and i beg God every day to please help me know what i am supposed to do. i have all these people praying for me and my H, people from all over this country and i feel that i'm almost as bad as my H at this point w/the way my feelings are going towards this man from church. so again, how else am i supposed to feel at this point?

i started praying last night that God will just make this man from church just kind of stay away from me and that God will help me stay away from him. i didn't go to choir practice yesterday because i was just lazy and i planned to "jet" after church last night and avoid this man but he went a different way and was out the door before i was and asked me if i was okay since i wasn't at choir practice. we ended up talking a long time after church in the parking lot and i just kept thinking to myself the whole time that i was being as bad as a WS because i am still married.

so i would really ask for you guys to pray for me because my thoughts and feelings are just run amok and i'm just sick to my stomach w/the way things are right now. i'll be leaving for florida on friday and maybe after the house is sold things will be different. i suspect that maybe that is is what my H is waiting for before he files but i really don't have any idea bout that either.

i've basically decided not to give my H the letter, i guess i just don't see the point. my main goal in the letter was to make sure that my H knew that i still loved him, could forgive him, and that i still believed that we could work things out but acknowledge the pain of the A at the same time. SH says and i agree that i always want to live a good picture of myself in my H's eyes and i don't think this letter would accomplish that. i think if i was ever given a chance it would be to say these things to him after the D if he should try to reconcile. i guess the only thing i would probably say to him at this point is "are you sure this what you really want?"

thanks guys for caring and asking how I AM doing but after you read this you'll probably think less of me and i'm sorry, prayers to you, RR

Heck, RR. Of course you're vulnerable to a new R. And who knows, maybe this is a man you want to take a look at. LATER.

Don't sweat this man so much, and don't flog yourself. You haven't done anything. It must be hard, though, to know what kind of boundaries to have. You feel obligated to protect your marriage, but your marriage hardly even exists!

Best thing, I think, is to keep a friendly distance fom this man until things are settled in your own M. There are many, many other people out there who would advise you to go for it with him, but I'm not one.

GC

GC, i know what you have said. i'm definitely not going to pursue anything only that i think that this "thing" is making me more confused. like i said maybe after the house is sold everything will be a moot point because i'll be served. but where as before i was going to take the full 20 days to respond, i don't know if i would anymore. i just read my "plan B" letter and i'm thinking maybe if i sent it maybe that would push my H more towards filing so again, i have to ask myself if that is what i really want.

i know we (well maybe just me) was concerned w/you sharing infor w/car4love and how things might develope. i guess i just want to say is that i know what i have to do in order to stay pure in my M (if that's what you call it). i've even thought about wearing my wedding ring for a few months after i was D'd in order to allow myself more time to heal or whatever. i mean it's not like it's going to be announced in church that roughroad is now divorced. i know i haven't done anything that is wrong but the idea that anything "thinks" i have done anything wrong or am doing wrong is just too much to bear.

last wednesday night me and this guy were talking after church in the parking lot by my truck and of course everybody was driving by waving at us. this one couple pulled up kind of behind my truck and this guy from church started to go over and talk them and i just said i would talk to him later and waived at the other people. this man from church came by my house last thursday (the next night)to pick up a check for the gate that he made me. he told me that the lady from the couple the night before had asked him if he and i were dating and he's like "she married!" and she just said well i didn't know, and her husbad was like "good grief kathy she asks for prayer for her and her husband every week." well when he told me that i acted like i was totally dumfounded but in truth i could see how that looked and that's why i'm just so torn up inside.

so without filing for D myself what am i supposed to do? should i tell me h that if he's going to file he needs to do it and get it over with? well i don't think i can do that so maybe a plan B letter would be best. i just don't know anymore. thanks for your input,i hope you don't think i'm discounting it. i've just been at this for awhile and i think i've suddenly just lost a lot of steam and i don't know if that's God trying to tell me something or not.

RR, I'm not concerned about how my friendships might appear, and I refuse to let potential gossip affect my life. But I respect your wish to not have your integrity questioned.

If that's important to you, then you'll have to maintain a certain distance with this man.

You might be glad you did later, because let's say you wind up divorced, and he's still around, and he shows interest. You can have a "clean" relationship with him then. And oh boy do we BS ever need that!

GC

i just don't want to be compared to my WH or any WS in any shape or form.

what i will probably do is after i get back from florida, i'll be dropping my mom off in arkansas and bringing back a small couch w/me if it will fit in my truck. i will need help getting it into my house and really have no one else to ask. so i will ask this guy from church if he could help me move it inside, shouldn't take more than 20 minutes. then at some point in the coming week, i think i should tell him that i'm concerned w/how things may appearing and if someone has already said something then perhaps other people are thinking the same thing and that i appreciate his friendship but that it's probably best if we kept some distance.

i have already a few times said something similar about doing things together that i could only do something if some other people came along with us and he understood and said it was probably wise. but i keep asking him to help me so what else is he supposed to do? that's kind of the kicker in this is that no one else has really offered to help me. not even any women from the church asking if i need anything. Kati from here said that the women may feel that even though i'm married they consider me competition or a threat. so w/that in mind i've kind of have kept my distance but it's hard when you don't have anyone else to turn to.

i'm not really concerned w/what other people think outside the church but i'm asking these people to pray for me and my husband and i can just see them thinking, why should we pray for her if she's galavanting around w/someone and she's still married. that's why i'm concerned, because the request for prayer is involved. but again, also because i'm trying to convince myself that i'm not doing anything wrong but all i keep hearing from the voices is that's how so many A's get started is 2 people leaning on each other's shoulder etc and i have really tried to take the high road in all of this not the same road as my H.

i guess i've pretty much beaten a dead horse. just don't have anybody else to talk to about this particular thing. can't talk to the lady at church that i have talked to because she'll know who it is at church and i don't want her to think less of this guy who truly has been through a lot himself. i usually talk to my mom but don't feel i can because i would be ashamed and IF maybe some day down the road i would develope a R w/this man i don't exactly want him to get on the wrong foot w/my parents. i don't counsel anymore w/SH so don't have much left to talk to.