"I needed this time to be on my own for awhile..and dating others while being married to you is not really being on my own. I have not really been dating other people, but I don't want to say I won't because i know that as soon as I say that, I will. I don't want to do it just to make you happy and then build up resentment because of that. I just think we'd have a much better chance if we divorced and then dated each other, rather than try to recover *this* marriage."

me:

"Don't you know that I don't want our old marriage back? I loved you and was generally ok with our marriage, but I was unhappy with myself and that's where so many of my own issues came from. I don't want that back again! And...Hmmmm..well...why can't we date each other while we're separated rather than divorced--cuz I can tell you that if we get a divorce, I may not be inclined to take a step BACKWARDS with you."

him:

"Well, how are we not doing that now? We talk two or three times a week. I spent my whole vacation with you last time I came up (*mmady's note*..the whole trip was planned specifically to see me!!)"

me:

"I'm not sure how I would expect things to be different. we can't go back and pretend we just met. A huge part of 'dating' is getting to know someone and we already know each other. We can't go back. I suppose I would envision it being like it was after we already were together a couple of years..and that did mean exclusivity. I know for one thing that if we had extra money, I would want to go down there to Puerto Rico for a weekend or something, and I don't feel that you would really welcome me."

him:

"I never said that. In fact I would not be uncomfortable and you're welcome to come down here anytime."

me:

"I guess I also feel that you are not necessarily looking forward to seeing me when you come here at the end of the month and would avoid it if you felt like you could. You are seeing me because you'll be here, but I do not get the vibe that you really want to. ...chuckle but you WILL have sex with me because I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to."

him:

"Me too."

and so blah blah blah..I changed the subject to less volatile things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I just think we'd have a much better chance if we divorced and then dated each other, rather than try to recover *this* marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dork!

Stop typing already and go dance the lying down calypso.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

" I just think we'd have a much better chance if we divorced and then dated each other, rather than try to recover *this* marriage."

TRANSLATION:

"You are date-worthy, however you are not wife-material right now."

Sorry for such plain talk... I think this is the real message.

My response would be:

"If we divorce, I will not date you. I did not sign up for that decrease in status when I said my marriage vows. Sorry, I need to veto that idea."

Pep

lol, Bob...wish I could.


Pepperband, I agree and no apology necessary. He has basically said as much-not quite so bluntly, lol, but it's the message he gives me.

actually, what I think his message is, "Yes, I love you, but there might be someone out there who is better for me. That's what I'm looking for right now and I'm not going to let my feelings for you get in the way." Or same meaning, but different words, "We lost that spark and I don't think we can get it back. I love the thrill of the chase and I won the chase with you. The prize is not what I thought it would be."

Hard message to swallow, but I think that's exactly what he thinks. I think this is something HE needs help with, but he thinks it's just life...just the way the cookie crumbles. He really needs to grow up, but everything points to him regressing. Is it a phase? Is it a permanent regression in personality? Who knows?

In fact I even said to him, "So what is it going to take for you to realize that it's not ME, but something in YOU? Are you going to have to get seriously involved with someone and then cheat on them or fall into the same relationship pattern before you realize it's not something lacking in me that you're missing?"

answer: "I don't know. Yes. Maybe."

So that's my answer folks unless something changes in the next few months. Can't "Plan A" that kind of crap away.

Ha, pretty sure divorce will be the "deal breaker" for me and I won't date him after a divorce.

MaddyK

You really seem to have a pretty good handle on interpreting the meaning in his words to you.

And you are right, it will probably be a pattern he sets for himself in relationships until he can understand how relationships evolve and mature. And until he understands the real meaning of commitment...and vows. He is looking for someone else to bring him happiness when it can be found within himslef and his own spirituality.

hey maddy, well w/all our conversations it really seems like a turn of events in more ways than one. i'm not sure how you were really "before" but you really handled the conversation well.

i guess my questions at this point is really how are you taking it? seems like things have gained a tremendous amount of momentum and by that i mean do you really think things are going to hang on until next june? i know you were already thinking about plan B after the holidays but i didn't know if w/this new interaction if you feel differently. would you actually file or would you maintain that your H has to be the one to file?

i know how big an emphasis you placed on friendship w/your H and i'm wondering if your feelings on this have changed? it seems like things are going in a direction where you will not be able to be friends after the D and i know you still wanted to be. i think you are incredibly insightful especially when talking about it not being about "you" but about how he sees R's and how this might be a cycle for him. i fear this for my H and we (BS's) know it doesn't have to be this way, which is why i am sad (well one of the reasons).

on a different note how are the job and school decisions going?

continued prayers to you, RR

roughroad, I'm actually doing okay with it. "eyeroll: dork" is the best way to describe it. Sure, I'm a little sad that I just see him continue to move away and really embrace his decisions to be like this--but it also helps me to get some perspective on the situation.

Still toying with Plan B after holidays, though I might just kind of fade into the woodwork..we'll see. The more I think about, the more I think Plan B really would affect him (his statement about wanting to date each other after divorcing makes me think that), but while I think it would make him miss me more, I also think he would completely respect Plan B and even if he really really really wanted to start things with me again, he wouldn't. Basically, if I called him right now and asked him to never contact me again until he decided to commit to working on the marriage--he never would. He wants a 100% guarantee and wants to be 100% sure..and that's just not going to happen. He is only "cake-eating" because I let him...and I'm only letting him do that so that I can show what a great place I can be. But there has to be an end to that at some point. I still do not plan on filing, roughroad, but we will see. If he doesn't make some positive move by June..and yet still doesn't file..maybe I will have to rethink that, but it's not in my thought process right now. But I do not think he will file BEFORE June...I think he will honor that agreement especially for financial reasons (which benefit only me).

It does not change my feelings on a friendship with him, and I do feel that it will still be possible. BUT, I do feel that there will need to be a period of minimal or no contact in order to let that happen. I guess my fear with this is that we'll divorce...be friends, and he really WILL try to date me and that I will end up doing it. I understand that we are not supposed to think of divorce as the "end of things", but I am trying to move on and divorce will be my signal that it's truly over, whether he believe it is or not. Does that make sense? I don't want to think about trying to make things work after a divorce..it's too depressing and I need to feel that there is an end to all this, one way or the other.

My job focus has changed, but still no luck yet.

For school...financial aid is finished and sumbitted...and I'm just waiting on my transcripts before I submit my school application! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Very excited!

glad to hear about the job and school, keep us posted.

i guess my perspective on agreements has just about been forever tarnished. why should i believe someone that says they will do this and that when they couldn't honor their marriage vows. course i'm speaking of my situation mostly. i kind of got into it w/my H this week because of the taxes we owe and such, he told me he had taken care of it, said in an email he paid the money due. but i received a letter saying that it wasn't paid. then he goes into he said that he was going to make installments but when i talked to the IRS they said there had been no agreements or contact made to institute a payment plan. when i told him this then he says well he was told that he had to just pay $100 then he would get something in the mail about payments plans so that's what he has been waiting for. okay, so this is mostly about him continuing behavior of procrastination and why he couldn't have called them up to begin with, i don't know. but the bill came to me and i have no idea how the IRS got my address in IL (it was actually my old address and mail was forwarded to me). The address that was used on our state and federal taxes was our florida address, so what gives?

anyway, he started getting pissy w/me and said that he told me he was going to make payments, blah, blah but he would call them and take care of it. i asked him if he could please call me when he had talked to them so that i knew what the status was. i was trying not to say "because you said you were going to take care of it before and look where we are" but that's how it came out and that's how he took it and was really snotty when he called me back and told me that everything was taken care of and that the lady was real nice (as if i said she wasn't nice, well how would you like for someone to tell you that if we don't get something straightened out, such as the address part, that leans were going to be put against our house and checking accounts). anyway, that's probably why i'm more in the plan B mood.

why am i saying this? i'm not sure and you know your H better than any of us. it's just i can't help thinking to myself if your H didn't honor your M vows, is or isn't dating, doesn't really want to stick it out, then why should you believe that he would honor the agreement not to do any divorce stuff until next june? that's just my issues so if it's not an issue for you than that's great. there was a thread started here recently that asked why WS don't file for D's it comes down to cake-eating, and if your H (like mine) can continue to do what they are doing regardless whether or not we are married (only legally to them) then really why should they D?

i'm mostly ranting and venting, i get confident about sending the letter then i read yours and gray's posts and then change my mind that maybe it's not a good idea, maybe just the fact i send him a letter will make him perceive that i really haven't changed because "see she had get the last word like she always did." i don't know, glad i don't have to do anything right away and i'm glad you have some time to play with as well.

later gator, RR

You know, I don't entirely object to the idea of being on a friendly basis with one's X after a divorce, especially if children are involved.

What I DO object to is the idea of divorcing someone with the intention of "just dating" that same person afterwards...

seems wrong to me. seems cruel to me.

Pep

<small>[ October 15, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

dbl

<small>[ October 15, 2004, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

Maddy, just wanted to tell you I'm thinking of you, and it looks like you're in good shape.

Don't fear plan B. I just started, and I feel good about it even though I don't expect it to work - I mean "work" as in save my M. I'm sure it will work fine for me personally.

It's true what they say, that you'll know when the time is right.

GC

Pepperband, I completely agree. I feel that I have moved backwards enough within our relationship and I'm not going to move backwards any further. It is time to go FORTH. How could I possibly just "date" him again? I mean, let's face it...right now he is not exactly acting like the kind of person I would marry...I'm making my changes..if he doesn't start making his...why on earth would I set myself up for this again? That's what just dating would do. But I do feel that I will need at least a short adjustment period of minimal contact (if any) before we can start the friendship again. I know myself and know that if I do not allow the adjustment period, I'm likely to do the dating thing and I know that's not good for anyone.

graycloud..nods..I am not so afraid of plan B. If I do a Plan B it will not be for my marriage, even though I do believe it would affect him more than I previously thought. My Plan B is for me to gradually lose that love, without losing what respect and friendly feelings I have towards him. I know exactly when Plan B will be right for me.

When I have found that I am no longer moving forward with my life..when I feel that *I* am just as stagnant as my marriage..then it is time for Plan B. I feel like I am moving forward right now, and see things in the near future that will keep me going in that direction. but I also see a time when things are at a stand-still. If I plan B, that will be the time to do it.

rr...yes, and I've thought about that aspect..him filing before we agreed. I really don't think he will...and don't think his family would let him, but that does not mean it won't happen. But..what can I do? If it happens, it happens. I can always *try* to contest, but don't know that I would. I don't want to think about it all too much because then I might start freaking out again..lol..and I'm glad to be past that freak-out stage. And also don't want to think about it because if he does file before June...again, there's really not anything I can do about it.

Dr Phil said something really good on his show yesterday or day before. He said you should spend 5% of your time *****ing (lol, not his word) and worrying about what a rotten deal you're gotten, and 95% of the time deciding what you're going to do about it. That's where I am right now. He said...

It is what it is.

Can't argue with that logic, and if you try..then you're no longer moving FORWARD.

roughroad, in regards to your letter...I will post on your thread..but you can't be ALL logic here. Logic gets us through the worst of times in these situations..but as some point you need to do what your heart tells you to do--that is what makes us human. I've heard a lot of what your head is telling you to do..even its indecision about the letter...but not sure what your heart feels at the moment?