Just got back from the gym. Got smiled/chatted up at by a lovely girl. Came over to talk to me about how bad the music choice was, I come here often she's seen me, etc etc. She must be, what, 22-26. No wedding ring. REAL easy to look at. Smile like sun flashing on sea.

I replied "yes my WIFE and KIDS and I have been members for a while my WIFE likes the music more than I do, the KIDS like swimming here THANKS for asking ". etc etc <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She made more small talk, and finished, " well, nice to speak with you at last after seeing you here so often. See you around "

She went for a shower smiling back at me. Absolutely clear that if I'd asked she would have gone on a date with me unless I am stupid !

It ocurred to me :

SHE hasn't torn my heart out and stomped on it.
SHE might try REAL hard to be attractive to me.
SHE might laugh at my jokes
SHE might be really appreciative of my efforts at romance and affection
SHE might appreciate my earning ability and the life I could show her
SHE might think about me in a romantic daze when I wasn't around
She might keep a picture me in her purse
SHE might be excited to introduce me to her friends and family as a 'catch'.
SHE might appreciate my physicality
SHE might actively try to meet my ENs
SHE might be excited to spend her leisure time with me instead of a load of sweaty karate students
SHE Might not take me for granted just because I love her SO HARD for SO LONG
SHE might never break my heart....

* sigh *

In a way its good because it clear I really HAVE merged from plan A with an improved recognition of my independence and of my worth independent of my FWW.

Its bad because..well...I've posted my thoughts. There PROBABLY IS someone out there who hasn't broken my heart who would adore me and thank God for me every day.

My FWW , so early in recovery can't do any of that, not yet any way. Maybe never.

If plan A was a heroes gig, I reckon recovery is a toughie too! Is ANYTHING is this cr@p easy ?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for listening {{{mb}}}

Bob,

If you read my post we appear to be on the same emotional wavelength!!!

Hi Cymanca !.

I guess we're sharing the same muse but our situations are different. Divorce is far from my thoughts right now, while it stalks your every thought, sadly. I'm just starting this recovery lark.

I'll be OK. Just that when FWW still has OMs number in her cellphone , his cards and letters in the house somewhere and his photo in karate magazines around the place too I wonder why I bother. surely she doesn;t think its OK ?

I KNOW she's been dark less than a month with him but am I unreasonable if I ask her to burn that sh1t with me?
It makes me sad. I can't believe how reasonable I have been/am being but as we say in Englind, this is taking the p1ss. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll get over it I guess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll get over it I guess.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You will, and then you'll have a nice OM bbq. I burned one of VD's photos and I must say, it might've been a LB, but it felt GOOD!

((((HUGS BOB & CY))))

Tell u what kimmy, I couldn't care less about OM right now other than generally wishing him ill.
He is using a brush to sweep his life into the drain right now.

My scary thought is I'm starting to care more about ME than FWW for the first time since since we met.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My scary thought is I'm starting to care more about ME than FWW for the first time since since we met.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SOMEBODY has to. Better you than the 22 yo...at least you can stay true to yourself, then.

- Kimmy

True kimmy !

Affairs are just [censored] aren't they ? They infect every part of everyones life they touch in a nasty way.NO-ONE ends up better off for them.

* sigh *

Bob,
YES...here we go. Bob has raised his head, taken his mind off of his goal for a moment and guess what happens? He catches a glimpse of what life could be without all this work, sacrifice, turning the other cheek,for a moment he actually sees himself not being so miserable or feeling so much responsibility if things between him and his W DONOT work out. I don't know if that's how you feel, but I know I've felt that way quite a bit lately. I still believe the issue will not be IF our S's will wake up, but will we still want to be with them once they finally do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Each callous action, each foggified response, each cold shoulder my W gives me deducts from my Love Bank, and it's not as if she's making many deposits...in fact she doesn't want to join our site or really learn our principles so she has yet to accept the notion of a Love Bank, let alone withdrawals, deposits and Love Busters. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FM, yes it is kinda how I feel. More than that...well...parta me wonders if all this sh1t is worth it beairng in mind my FWW shows NO remorse, WON'T discuss the A is NOT doing anything to meet my unmet ENs and drinking up my post-Plan A self like champagne. Still got loveletters and stuff hidden in the house too.Even the constant SF is for her not me. She is ALWAYS frisky and says it was an unmet EN when I was a pre-a chunk and tired offa too much work all the time.

I know its early days. Just made me think thats all. If we don't make this work I WILL be happy.

If only I didn't still love her enough to die for it would be so much easier... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>If only I didn't still love her enough to die for it would be so much easier... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES it would....

My W wants to be back in love with me and she's frustrated that it's not just happening.

Let me get this right, a month ago you had left for the 3rd time, 2 months ago you rendezvoused with OM to persuade him to continue your R and 4 months ago - 2 years ago you had kept up a R with OM doing who knows what all the while lying to me, denying me your heart, behaving selfishly and detestable...and now you wonder why we ARENOT suddenly back in love?????

Oh but I guess I should be happy that she wants to be back in love with me instead of OM, but I find it hard swallowing that sewage. I am not a consolation prize and you should be very happy that YOU get that opportunity to still be my W, at least isn't that how most cheaters feel when they offended S is open to a reconciliation?????????????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ October 15, 2004, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

* nods * and takes a drink of Chilean rose.

Am I selfish wanting some gratitude and recognition ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> * nods * and takes a drink of Chilean rose.

Am I selfish wanting some gratitude and recognition ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you're not selfish your human.
Our W's are not back to normal just yet (whatever normal is) they look the same but they are still swirling from after effects of the fog. We must find a way to hang on a little while longer without asking that pretty yougn thing at the gym out for drinks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I just started a new job making exactly what I made at my old job. Women are everywhere and believe me in DC if your heterosexual, legally/gainfully employed, easy to look at and have access to transportation the women have no problems making the intial move. I often wonder would is there a woman on the train with me who would appreciate me and fill my EN's out of joy instead of like a date with the gallows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I keep hanging on to my convictions. Today I brought the bible with me on the bus and train, after last nights convo with my W the bible is the only thing I could think of to keep me from throwing in the towel.

FM, your personal effort bank is depleted. Tiem to start on the kids ones.
When THEY run out, its time to go DC friend.

Be strong. Keep giving a sh1t and being decent until thats no longer an option.

Its what seperates us from the OPs.* more rose GLUG ! * <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bob,

I warned you. One of the stages of recovery is, "WTF, why am I doing this?" It often comes with sort of a timeline, for lack of a better word. Things will have to get better, I will feel totally loved by this FWW of mine by this time next year, or whenever, or I'm moving on.

Take it in stride. The exact same thing with very friendly easy-on-the-eyes women has happened to me twice recently. I had all the same thoughts as you. And a few more. Like, I deserve to feel loved for once. And, the real sneaky one, who would know? Well, I would. God would. So I run the other way. And that also irks me no end, this feeling that I have to run away from women.

It's amazing, actually. I could get more action now than when I was in my twenties and single if I wanted it. Older women don't seem to care if you are a Physics geek nearly as much, it seems. Well, I suppose it might help that I no longer look like one either. The 25 lbs I lost on the infidelity diet might also be a factor. Man, I want to keep those off.

Our hearts deserved better treatment than they have received at the hands of our beloved wives. It just may be that the pieces left over will not make a complete beating heart any more. But we won't know until we try. And that takes time and all these stupid stages of emotional conflict.

Hang in there.

T

Thos, yes you did warn me mate. I thought of your warning when I caught myself thinking this way !
I'm not so downhearted, long way to go. My timeline is sorta my 41st birthday on Jan 31st. If enough hasn't changed for the better bythen I gotta change something big. Not sure what yet, but SOMETHIN' ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bob

I guess im feel some of the same feelings. ww has committed to R and M but it seems she rarely cares for what im going through.

I am trying my best to fill her EN and sometimes it still feels like "plan A with SF".

im jus tmore confused now than when i KNEW that there was continued contact. I tried to talk to her about my anxiety and she pushes it off and says that it is my problem not hers...I tried to tell her that her words and actions effect my anxiety.....

And then there's today. After a nice lie in. I cooked the family a slap-up breakfast ( bacon, sausages, bens, eggs, mushrooms, french toast - the works! ). I took my DD to her horse riding kesson with her friend Amy while FWW took SS To visit a family friend.

Got back and went Ice skating. I almost broke my collar bone in a funny fall and had to sit out ! ( it was like Hamburger Hill out there today - SS got clattered and bumped his head hard on the ice and DD fell and hurt her knee too !). FWW was very loving to me, and concerned when I was hurt.
WE cut our losses and took the kids to see Shark Tale at the cinema ( I preferred Nemo, but thats just me!).

FWW held my hand and stroked my fingers all through the movie. Even gave me a kiss once.

Afterwards, we're all hungry so we pile into alocal retaurant called Shanghai Fusion - where Asian, indian and english dishes are served togeter bufet style. We had a nice time, FWW looking me in the eyes and being generally, well, nice and loving.

Got back , put kids to bed and we share a bottle of wine, tired after a busy day but again she is just like my FWW from a few years ago.

Absolute normality. Not a SHRED of recognition of the devastation she has caused me, our kids and OM GF and her son.
I know, I know, early days, nothing happens in a rush , etc etc.

I need to just enjoy the days without conflict and with a little love shown I guess and see what the next few months bring.

Its hard this stuff. I feel I have plan A'ed too well - FWW feels ABSOLIUTELY welcome, despite everythig, completely vindicated by my accepting and loving behaviour and personal EN improvements.

Also I feel, well, deserving of MORE that I am getting. More that I have HAD for year sin my M. or year sI have been scared of being alone, but I realise that I would not be alone unless I chose it. I am marketable. I have learned I am worth loving, worth adoring.

I still have an inexplicable God-given love for the girl AND for teh sake of the kids I will keep my Taker caged for more months. Hard though.

Bob, your obsessing.

Absolute normality. Not a SHRED of recognition of the devastation she has caused me, our kids and OM GF and her son.

You have to let this go or it WILL destroy you. Do you really want a depressed, graveling W? or do you want this kind of W.

FWW was very loving to me, and concerned when I was hurt. FWW held my hand and stroked my fingers all through the movie. Even gave me a kiss once. We had a nice time, FWW looking me in the eyes and being generally, well, nice and loving.

She is rapidly approching Itimacy and you are stuck in Conflict. I have been here. It ain`t pretty is it? It will pass. Just as soon as you forgive.

SH, writes,

"Once they see each other's caring efforts, and rebuild their Love Bank accounts, they re-enter the Intimacy stage. But there's an irony that trips up some couples. Which spouse do you think is the first to move back into the state of Intimacy: the one who makes the first effort to meet the other's needs, or the recipient of that effort? You may have guessed it. The recipient of care is usually the first to return to the state of intimacy, and not the one who make the greatest effort to save the relationship."

RG

RG
DO I want a depressed, grovelling FWW ? Yeah, a little for an hour or so, once for all , yes I do. I want a spouse cognitive of what she did, of what I did and brave enough to verbalise this and make herself vulnerable enough to admit this all to me. I have repented TO HER of my contribution to the state of our M pre-A FFS and she has only said she is sorry for the hurt her A caused me but she does NOT regret the A.

I DO NOT want a 'grovelling' M like that moving forward but I DO NOT want a FWW sailing along on the shards of my choked-down broken heart and Plan A without a shred of remorse either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just as soon as you forgive.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That dog don't hunt with me. Even JESUS doesn;t forgive without remorse and repentance.

I NEED her to be sorry for her A and say so. I want her to recognize my efforts in saving our M so far. I do not think I am unreasonable in this. I am a BS doing the best I can to choke down existential hurt, not a saint and NOT a doormat.

Right now I feel used. And I'm kinda tired of the injustice. Its probably my 'taker' maifesting in a strange new way but I want justice. I want FWW to admit she did a very bad thing and she's sorry.

I cannot forgive her until then. I know me pretty , and it would just be words if I said I forgave her without a 'sorry' rom her.
Oddly, thts all I need. A heartfelt SORRY and a willingness to do stuff that is inconvenient or uncomfortable for her in order to start healing my heart. But she won't, and theres no soign she will.

I do not want to recover my M at the cost of my self respect. There can be no recovered M without my self respect.

Sometimes I can be kind of blunt. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but have you considered asking her if there's a reason she hasn't initiated some talks with you?
Of course you already know the answer, but perhaps it will get her to thinking about it more?