Ive been PlanAing for about 9 or 10 months now. During this time my attitude to my husband has really changed. Ive learned to be more tolerant of him, more positive with him, more appreciative, more patient. Ive learned not to get upset about little things. At the same time im really getting the house nice, which I know used to be very important to him. Ive learned to give him space. Ive worked on recreational companionship without choking him....

He hasnt mentioned a divorce in a long time. We long since decided to review our situation after the Christmas holidays. This meant that we coudl avoid relationship talk and concentrate on just reestablishing our friendship and having fun together. Then yesterday , just after we'd had SF, he told me that nothing had changed and that he still wanted a divorce. I reminded him that hed need to move out after Christmas if that was what he decided and he looked at me as if i was crazy! i left the room then. I felt upset and didnt want to love bust.

Could it be possible that he is growing to love me again and that he is afraid of this and trying to keep me at arms length? He says he doesnt want to give me false hope.

One thing this PlanA has done has made me love him more. Im not sure why, maybe because Ive learned to look positively at him. Im afraid of what would happen if he were to decide to walk after Christmas. he truly is my best friend again. I look forward to being with him. I do appreciate that he does not treat me as he should. Our relationship is still very much a one way street of my making teh effort and him reaping the rewards. I guess he thinks this is justice for my sins.

I have pretty much come to teh conclusion that after Christmas he must either decide to leave and go his own way (and me move on to PlanB) or decide to dedicate himself 100% to saving our marriage. Im really afraid that this strange status quo that we have come to with me emotionally as giver and him as taker, could go on indefinately otherwise.

Im not sure why Im posting. I dont think its a vent. Maybe I would just like some imput on what you guys think of my putting this "ultimatum" to him after Christmas. We will have been back together by then for just over a year. I think he should be capable of making a decision....What do u think?

<small>[ October 15, 2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

Then yesterday , just after we'd had SF, he told me that nothing had changed and that he still wanted a divorce.

This just seems so odd that he would make a comment like this just after love-making.

Why do you think he timed it like this?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> Then yesterday , just after we'd had SF, he told me that nothing had changed and that he still wanted a divorce.

This just seems so odd that he would make a comment like this just after love-making.

Why do you think he timed it like this?

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it's anything like what my BS/WW has been doing to me...

We'll have a nice evening together or a nice weekend together and the next day she fires off some "I've been thinking about what a jerk you are" or "I don't mean to give you false hope" type email or conversation...

Then I think it's basically a "don't get too comfortable with me loving you again, because I'm still not sure, I'm still confused."

It would be nice if they could just SAY it like that, in a loving way just say "look I know we just made love, and it was wonderful, but I don't want you to get your hopes too high, I'm still confused and uncertain."

But it's easier to fire off some vitriolic statement and be nasty about it.

Sounds like typical Fog Talk to me...

<small>[ October 15, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: VnusMars ]</small>

Thanks Pep and VnusMars....I believe you have hit it on the head.

When we first got back together we were having a lot of SF and then he stopped it. Now its about 1 to 3 times a month. I rarely initiate, Ive had enough rejection, but he has his own ways of letting me know when he needs SF (subtle ways...he would probably deny giving signals at all). I seriously think that he finds this intimacy scary. We know that SF is a major EN for men. It does put points in his Love bank. I think he has realised this and he is scared. Hence his bringing up divorce after SF and the deliberate cut down on the number of times that we have SF. he wants to feel in control. When I make deposits in his LB he feels himself losing this control over his emotions and hence the need to make a cutting comment to give himself the control back.

Another incident this morning. I was reading the FIM thread and he was ready to go out. I asked him to wait until I had finished (I usually have to wait for extended periods while he gets ready...heck hes a gay man...he likes to look his best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). I even suggested that he go and do some dishes in the kitchen which is what I usually do on a Saturday morning when Im waiting for him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He informed me that this was my job, I replied that it was Saturday and that as he wasnt working it was equaly the responsability of both of us. He then laid down on teh bed where he is still sulking ! This sulking when he didnt get his own way was one of teh major LBers that threatened our marriage in the first place. To be honest Im now finding it quiote amusing (possibly due to my prozac which makes me not get upset about things which would previously have sparked me off!). He now doesnt know if he wants to go out. Ive got back on the computer and in a minute will get on with my things around the house. Ive told him to tell me when hes ready. My reactions to him are totally different than they used to be. He again mentioned that he wanted a divorce and I suggested that he might like to go out on his own...it would help him prepare for being on his own.....

On reflection this is definately about control. He is afraid of returning to our old relationship where I ruled the roost and he fitted in with me. He is scared of recommiting to our relationship. He doesnt realise that we can build a new and improved relationship, where both of us get our needs fulfilled. At the moment he feels he has control. I am doing ALL the housework whilst he struts around and issues demands (like , lets go out this very minute!)and I am accomodating to him.

The more I think about it the more I realise that that decision has to be made in january. He either leaves or commits. I am seriously not prepared to play second fiddle to him. We are either equal partners or he can go it alone.

Before any of you ask if we are in counselling, we were having counselling with teh psychologist but she works 8am til 3:30 and my husband works 8:45 to 3:15, so we are no longer able to see her. HE is in IC but this is not with a properly qualified counsellor. This woman basically just listens to him whilst he shares his woes.

<small>[ October 16, 2004, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

I was also wondering why he would bring up divorce right after SF. That is how it sounded it came up.

Has he shared with you where he is at while having SF with you...does he use fantasy about OM? Or is he really with you..mind and body.

Is he into the concept of radically honesty? Does he compare your SF experience with what he recalls from his PA...it did go PA didn't it with his male friend?...I can't recall for sure.

Can he really get back into being exclusively heterosexual? Or maybe you are just hoping he can go either way (bisexual) since he seemed fine with it for the bulk of your marriage until he started rewriting history.

Is how he feels about SF with you...his wife a main determining factor in whether or not he wants to stay married? That could be rather selfish and irresponsible of him considering the number of children you have together.

It's been a while now...maybe it is time to shyte of get off the pot. Sorry if that was an inappropriate comment.

Hi Trix ! As far as SF goes ,I have asked him and he says that he never fantasises about OM when we make love; It is exclusively about us.

Another problem is that he has shut himself into a little box called "gay man". He spends most of his time in gay chatrooms. We do loads of things together as friends and have lots of fun. The thing is that when we have SF (which he thoroughly enjoys [he has been known to say that we arehaving better sex now than during our whole married life]) he is reminded that perhaps he does not fit into this little box quite as well as he thinks.

yes, he did have sex with his male friend but as it was only once and he has had just one online affair (well...one that was reciprocated!) he feels that the balance is on his side and that he is "the wronged one". Personally I dont think this is about balancing scales but about putting our family and life back together. Despite the fact that he prefers the "gay man" box, it is very obvious that he is bisexual. As one of his friends told him, a truly gay man finds the thought of having sex with a woman repulsive.

As far as radical honesty goes the truth is that I dont know how honest he is. he often hides his chats from me but he says it is because he feels nothing is private any more. I dont believe he is having cyber sex or an online relationship with anyone. He always say when he meets ppl online that he wants friendship and chat only.

I seem to be beginning to distance myself from the whole thing. I do love my husband very much. I love being with him and sharing my life with him. I really thought things were getting better between us;I cant remember teh last time that we had an argument. the bottom line is that he is going to need to make a decision. He cannot [censored] foot about for years on end taking from me emotionally and physically, whilst he continues to indulge himself on the internet, and I look after the children. At he moemnt I feel like he gives me the crumbs from his table. He will come out and spend time with me if there is nothing interesting happening online (though we do have a date night every week as well as a night of sequence dancing).

Looking over this post it seems to negative. My husband shares his day with me, we share our hopes fears and excitements but come 7 or 8pm I know that he will be online until he goes to bed (about 1am).

Am I wrong to desire more? Am I wrong to want him to make a decision in January?

Im angry today! One of the things that He tempted me back with was that he had now established a great social life, which was one of things that i craved. When I first got back his friends called him afew times to go out. He wanted to go alone and I raised objections! I asked a few times why we didnt go out with his friends and he made an excuse that he didnt think Id get along with them. Now Ive realised that perhaps he was simply holding this part of his life back from me for when we separated again. Thus he will have a nice social life and I will totally alone.... The only real social life we have now is sequence dancing once a week and when he leaves that will be over. I feel really sad about this. I have no friends here and yet I dont want to disturb the kids again by moving them back with my family. yesterday he had an extended chat with our minister and afterwards he told me that he had decided what he would do until he leaves in January. I feel angry and trapped.....i also feel impotent to do anything at all in this situation (other than go to a lawyer and start the divorce process already). Its like he has all the cards and I have nothing. I came back with all good intentions to make a go of our marriage and I have been PlanAing to such an extent that my love for him has grown and grown. Nonetheless he did say something about that he still didnt know what he was going to do....I hate this limbo....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Debbra:
<strong> Now Ive realised that perhaps he was simply holding this part of his life back from me for when we separated again. Thus he will have a nice social life and I will totally alone.... Nonetheless he did say something about that he still didnt know what he was going to do....I hate this limbo.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Debbra - I wonder if at this point you are just too available to him- meaning- he is having his fun- his own social life, while he has you taking care of the house and working your behind off at meeting his needs. I guess the words that came to mind when reading were "cake-eater". I don't know what the next step is for you guys- I'm sure Pep or another one of the experienced MB'ers will have some suggestions though.

Actually he doesnt go out alone at all (except with work colleagues once every few months for an hour after work).

Yeah, cake eater is probably right. Its certainly me the giver and him as the taker....We just got back from our weekly sequence dancing. I mentioned that if he leaves we wont be able to go anymore, though as a man he would find it easier to find another partner than me. Strangely he replied that he wouldnt feel comfortable dancing with any other woman...

Sometimes I feel like hes playing a game to see just how much he can get away with, other times it seems painfully real....