weaver,

I'm doing ok, considering everything. I recieved paperwork from the atty and filled it out, and will be sending it to him as soon as I go over it with him on the phone. Hopefully, that will be tomorrow.

The twisted irony is, my WW's dad went to prison twice, once for what she got busted for, and once for something he didn't do. She told her dad, and then me on the phone, that she didn't mean to sign the statement, but she had panicked. That of course, will be used against her if possible.

Penn. is the state. I have never been in a prison or jail (other than visiting someone once), and I hope that I never will. My record is clean, no tickets even. It angers me that my record may be marred by what my WW has done <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

My WW did send me an instant message that the OM is looking at six months, and will know for sure tomorrow. In a way thats good, but that means that they aren't blaming him for anything that they found. One plant in PA is a felony.

Thank you weaver, and everyone else for thinking of me in these disquieting moments. I am trying to be as strong as I can, and I am cherishing my moments with my children. I took them out for pizza for dinner. They really enjoyed it! It was a good time.

Here is an update to my situation...

The OM did get six months jail time, with work release. My WW had told me in her Yahoo chat that she wouldn't be seeing the kids today, as she couldn't afford it. The last time she said that, she had just bought a brand new discman and car kit for $30. That is the average cost of gas for a round trip. But this time, I find out from other sources that she took time off of work to go to the courthouse for OM's sentencing. I have read that WS's having an A sometimes have thier brain going haywire, and that they will not see thier own children, destroy lives, etc.

No charges have been filed yet from thier bust, but OM's atty said to the judge that they were trying to get WW's "ex" down there, but haven't been successful yet, and that they were "still investigating". OM's probation officer spoke to the judge, and basically told him it was WW and OM's problem, that he found drugs in thier bedroom (OM's), and that the plants were in a room right off of the bedroom.

Supposedly, the D.A. was sitting there, and said nothing...

I can't wait for my lawyer to hear this news.

So I feel a little better today, but still slightly distraught. It comes and goes. Is it common for WS's having an A to even risk getting thier BS's into legal trouble when the BS hasn't done anything? I would think that it is extreme, to say the least...

But even with all of the "evilness" going on, and even though I am feeling a little better today, I have a desire to hold my W and kiss her...people think I am absolutely crazy for that.

Even though I feel that any sort of reconciliation is impossible at this point due to the circumstances, I feel that if certain conditions were met, there may be a chance:

She retracts her false statement.

She gets psychiatric help.

She stays away from her corrupting family.

She gets real friends, not the degenerates she hangs out with.

We see a MC that follows MB principles.

We date for a while, then move back in together once all things have been done, when I see an absolute, positive change in my W, like she was when we married. Total POJA, no LB's, nothing but LB$ deposits, EN's met-all by both sides.

Not likely to happen, she is too self-destructive these days. But I can dream, can't I? Of course, if all of this blows over, and a few months pass, and we divorce (because nothing changes with her), there is always a chance to meet someone who will never to the evil to me that my W has...

Dimmu,

There is ALWAYS hope. The conditions you listed for recovery are right on.

The important thing is that you can stay strong and do what is needed to take care of your children and yourself.

Your WW can and might straighten up, or she might not...nobody can know this.

I am going to stop posting for awhile as I have some personel issues to deal with and feel that MB is becomming a way for me to avoid my life and things I need to focus on right now, but I, for one will be thinking of you and probably checking from time to time to make sure you are still here and staying strong.

Take it easy, dimmu.

weaver

Dimmu,

I was once married to a woman [first W] who had multiple affairs that I became aware of by breaking into her hotmail account. To say that I was shocked is a tremendous understatement but it did explain her horrible and cruel behavior towards me and our very young daughters. I tried pleading, threatening, negotiating with her to get into counseling but it fell on deaf ears and was cruelly told "I will continue to have as much sex as I want with whoever I want". I stayed married to her for a few more years for the sake of our daughters [but with zero love for her] until one documented incident of child endangerment which I used as my ticket to file for divorce and seek full custody of our daughters. I got my divorce and physical custody was granted to me with supervised visitation rights for her. She continued with her self destructive lifestyle some months after our divorce until one day she tried to commit suicide, and was taken to a mental institution for observation and treatment. My XW had finally hit rock bottom and could no longer escape the truth that she had destroyed her marriage and her family through her self destructive behavior. She made the committment to get therapy to conquer her demons and eventually she became well enough where she was able to get a job [she had been at SAHM] and a place to live on her own. By the time that happened, I was already in a committed relationship with a woman who had also been married before to a man who had cheated on her as many times as my XW did to me. Word got to my XW through our daughters of my new relationship and she told me how deeply sorry she was to have hurt me and our girls and to please give her another chance but it was too little too late for me to give her another chance considering what hell I and our daughters had gone through for years. I had no more love for her and the love that I did have was now for another woman who did not have the inner demons that my XW had. Since then I have married the woman I had a committed relationship with and I couldn't be more happier. My XW has respected my marriage and has ceased her futile attempts to get me to reconcile with her. I no longer harbor any anger or bitterness towards her [gave it up before I met my new W] and am very happy for my daughters that they've recovered their mother from the abyss of self destruction.

I suspect that your WW [like my XWW] will have to hit rock bottom before she finally accepts the truth that she is in dire need of help. I know you still love her but ask yourself if that love for her is well served by being married to her, afterall what good is it to finally come to her senses but discovering that you no longer love her and want nothing to do with her?. Divorcing her is actually a legal technicality that doesn't change the way you feel for her but may well be the catalyst for her to hit rock bottom, seek counseling and therapy, and if she becomes a healthy woman, a chance to prove herself to you.

weaver,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is ALWAYS hope. The conditions you listed for recovery are right on.

The important thing is that you can stay strong and do what is needed to take care of your children and yourself.

Your WW can and might straighten up, or she might not...nobody can know this.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think my hope comes from God, because my feelings now are 180 degrees from the feelings I had from my WW's first A. I followed instinct the first time...so I partially blame myself for my WW's current state...not the A she is having, but her bitterness. I shall be strong as I can for the children and myself, they are the future, and I want to help them in every way that I can. I know that my WW can change, or stay the same. Only time will tell...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am going to stop posting for awhile as I have some personel issues to deal with and feel that MB is becomming a way for me to avoid my life and things I need to focus on right now, but I, for one will be thinking of you and probably checking from time to time to make sure you are still here and staying strong.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is too bad...but I understand. Sometimes, I wonder if I spend too much time on here as well. MB has helped me so much, when I had no outlet for my pain,and everyone on here who has responded to my posts has been infinitely helpful. I hope everything is okay with you. Thank you for your kind, and inspirational words, and for thinking of me in these dark times. If anything should happen, where as I won't be able to post anymore (because of WW's actions), I shall try to get a message on here, so everyone knows what is going on. Take care weaver, and thank you again.

T00MuchCoffeeMan-

I am sorry to hear that you had to go through a similar experience that I am going through now. I am very glad for you that you were able to meet a woman that you could fall in love with, and marry. I hope to find that kind of happiness someday, whether my WW changes, or I meet someone else. I just hope that her trying to pin her and OM's bust on me doesn't ruin my chances for hapiness for myself and the children. For now, I can only do what I believe God compells me to do. In a way, I hope my WW hits rock bottom, because I don't believe that her eyes will be open to what she has done until that happens. I will legally seperate from her next month, and if she doesn't show any signs of change, or if anything negative happens to me or the children (if I get taken away from them because of her lies), I will immediately divorce her. I have put up with 3 1/2 years of her nonsense. Sometimes, it feels like she has released a whirlwind of madness, from her own Pandora's Box...

I do blame myself to an extent, for adding to her neagtivity. My handle on here, -Dimmu-, means dark/foggy in Icelandic (Norwegian as well maybe?), because thats what I became after her first A. If only I had found MB back then... But even if I didn't follow the natural instincts of a BS, she may have done all of this anyway.

And who knows, maybe it will be to late for her and I to work things out, if and when she does hit rock bottom. If that is the case, then I say let it be a hard life's lesson for her.

I have decided to share my email address, it is:

scythifuge@hotmail.com

One of the negative things that had come out of my WW's first A, was that I aquired a slight form of agoraphobia, and I became antisocial, except for a small handful of friends. MB forums has been helping me get through that, and I am finding myself being more talkative with strangers, like store clerks for example. I was quite nervous and apprehensive about posting here, for the first few days that I lurked around the boards. Sharing my email addy is a big step for me. So if anyone wants to send me an email, please feel free!

Dimmu,

Took your email address in case you stop posting we need to check if you are okay.

As far as your social fear-

I went on Lexapro for anxiety attacks that were beginning to threaten my job and were really immobilizing me. I have alway been shy but have found now that I am on Lexapro, I don't have as much fear in social situations where I don't know everyone. I am becomming more outgoing, and I know it has alot to do with the Lexapro. I was also fine around my friends but had a severe fear of people I didn't know, and work situations which required me to speak in front of more than a couple of people at a time.

MB might be helping me also. It is the first forum I have ever been a part of so it might be an exercise in becoming more outgoing.

Hang in there guy, and now I really am going <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My WW sent us a package. Two gourds with painted faces for the kids. A Care Bear for my DD, and a stuffed Incredible Hulk for my DS, and $100 child support (short $180). We each got a letter. Each one was very short. She wrote maybe three sentences for each child. She didn't write what I was expecting her to write, like "I miss you kids so much, I think about you every day, etc."

Her letter to me basically said not to ask her for anymore child support, that I'll get waht she can afford, and that she doesn't have much to say to me.

She must think that gifts for the children, and some money, makes up for her destroying our family unit, and for not seeing the kids so that she can take time off of work to see OM in jail. She keeps saying she has no money, but she has a roommate paying $200 a month for his share of the rent (the other guy who moved in our house with OM). She didn't have a problem paying the bills before, so I can only gather that she is maybe paying for OM's lawyer, has her own lawyer, or is putting money in OM's commissary fund. I know she can't take too much time off of work, because they are on a point system. I'm starting to wonder if she and OM took days off to be together while I was still there...

I am starting to have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. I want to tell her all the things that everyone recommends I don't say to her...LB's and all. I know I won't do it, but the desire is there none the less.

The day started out great today, but getting the package and letters has got me feeling like crud right now. I wish she could understand the agony she has caused my children and I...maybe she does, and thats another reason for not calling or coming up to visit...

My WW is coming up for Halloween so that we can take the kids out. My town is holding Halloween on Saturday. My sister lives in a different town, and they are having Halloween on Sunday. My kids want to go on both days, so I'm hoping that my WW stays the night up here. My atty has advised me not to speak to her in any way, shape, or form, about the false statement and trouble she and OM got themselves into, due to thier lies about me. I was going to ask her to recant her statemnt, but my atty said that could be construed as intimidating a witness. Unbelievable.

Even with all she has done, a lot of you know that I still love and miss her, even if a part of me has been wounded and despises her for it...as I said, I'm a walking paradox. The part that loves her desires SF from her, but the part that despises her, feels dirty in a way for wanting it. I know that the homewrecking %@$!#!$~# OM is in jail...so she probably hasn't had any SF in a while (I hope), and I haven't had any either.

I'm basically looking for advice...given what I have stated about my situation, would it be unwise to seek SF from my WW while she is here? I would give almost anything for us to be in each other's arms again. We were having SF pretty regularly before she dumped me and our children off. I have been dreaming about her every single night, and the other night, I dreamt that we were making love, so its been on my mind off and on since then.

She probably won't go for it, but I can hope...

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am...I don't want to appear "needy" by asking her for SF (it would seem to go against a lot of Plan A advice to seem needy). I guess I'll just have to see what happens...

She probably won't go for it, because she is so infatuated with this piece of human garbage. Her fog is some of the thickest imaginable. Unlike most other WS's...she is convinced she doesn't love me (or so she says), isn't sitting on the fence, doesn't care who knows about the A, etc.

But, we did have SF right up until she dumped us off at my mother's house...

I'll just have to ponder it a bit more.

Well she is your wife...

and he is in jail...

And life is short!


And that is all I am going to say about it,

well except be careful, don't get pulled back in too much. You are doing so much better.

And if you do decide to go for it, be somewhat detached. Don't oogle, and druel and all that other needy stuff. Just have fun with it, and see where it goes.

weaver,

Thank you for your advice, and I'm glad to see you're still here! I like what you said about OM being in jail, and that life is short...I hope you don't mind if I use those words with my WW this weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And I won't be needy, definitely won't oogle, or anything like that. I am afraid of getting pulled back in...the past couple of days have been really low for me, but I'm feeling better at the moment. Maybe in another month I'll be more focused, and have more better days than bad ones. I have been trying to meditate on feeling good, and at least having the appearence of moving on.

I'll probably go for it, after taking her out for coffee, or to a place where we can dance and have a glass of wine or two (I don't dance, but she does, it may be an EN for her, so I'm going to try!). Then I'll see what happens after that...if she shows up this weekend that is.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I was wondering...

The fact that she is supposed to take the kids to PA this weekend (which my lawyer says is ill-advised), but agreed to let the kids stay up here for two days of Halloween celebrations...should that be considered a POJA success?

I had said to her, a few days ago:

"My town is holding Halloween on Saturday 6-8, we would like it if you came and went with us..."

She replied "Yeah, that sounds good..."

Then she didn't show up last weekend, and said that she was saving money so that she could be here for Halloween.

Then in a Yahoo chat, I told her about my sister's town holding Halloween on Sunday, and that the kids wanted to go. I said I thought it would be fun and good for them to have Halloween with thier cousins. I asked her if it was okay, and she replied that it was...

So that would be one, if not two POJA successes, right?

I hope so...

As I have said, at this time, reconciliation sounds slim, but whether it happens or not, I want to master meeting EN's, POJA's, and avoid LB's with WW or any future woman I may meet and form a relationship with. Practice, practice, practice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dimmu

I highly recommend that you read Tom Mcknight's book 'Love Tactics'. In the book he specifies the key ingredients for a person to fall in love with another: Respect, Passion and Friendship. You may also be interested in visiting the Love Tactics website for more info.

Thanks TMCM!

I'll look into signing out or purchasing the book, and I will definitely check out the website!

Dimmu

Based on what everyone knows about my situation, would it be a good idea to point my WW to this site? Should I wait? Since I can't see or speak to her very often, and that she seems to have some time on her hands, maybe reading some articles and posts from WS's and BS's might help her see through the fog, and maybe see the damage she has done? I'm so unsure...I'm not going to point her to this site without sound advice on the matter. I wouldn't want it to backfire in anyway.

Oh, TMCM, I checked out that site briefly, and bookmarked it, so that I can delve into it more later on.

Also, I got a call from my FIL. Apparently, the place of employment that his GF works at, gave her a letter for me. Apparently, for some odd reason, it got sent back to them in the mail. Maybe its good news? I'm not getting my hopes up though...they have my number, and I left a message to check on the status of my application, and they haven't called back. My WW had made the comment that I should have a job by November, but she knows that jobs aren't all that easy to come by around here.

Dimmu,

From everything I have seen on here, unless the affair is over and you and WW are in recovery it would not be good for her to come here. It may hamper your ability to post honestly and therefore impede your personal recovery.

She wouldn't be open to this site anyway, unless she was looking to end the affair and repaire her marriage.

Also there have been posters to have had to have all there thread's deleted and name changed because of possible hostile legal actions and manipulations by WS.

You must have VnusMars' WW's post, she was very hostile and not at all open to MB.

weaver,

Your point is well taken, and I will not point her out this board. She used to be so logical and reasonable, for what seems to be long ago. Part of me was hoping that by her reading some of these things on MB, that some of her logic and reason would break through her fog.

If she were to come here, I wouldn't tell her my handle though. But she would probably figure out who I was if she saw posts by "Dimmu" (she would be quite familiar with the word). Maybe she'll find this site on her own. I have no idea what she does with her time these days.

I was thinking of maybe copying segments of posts and sending them in an email, but that would probably be a LB. I sent her an article about infidelity, and she responded with "I don't need any of your articles , thanks". Cold, and to the point. I'm struggling with my patience today, thats all...not seeing her in a couple of weeks is starting to take its toll.

I got more information from my FIL today. The degenerates have been visiting my WW daily, and my FIL has advised her to end all of that. Her response to that was "I can't help it that they come over..." She never did have much of a spine when it came to her family and so-called "friends", but she can screw with me and our M well enough.

The OM (who I despise, abhor, and loathe), keeps telling my WW that he loves her. He is on work release, and will be giving my WW money for the bills. She translates this as "love", I translate it as "I hope I have a place to live and a piece of @ss when I get released". My FIL reminded her that sex alone doesn't equate to love. She also hasn't mentioned me to my FIL at all the last couple of times they spoke.

She wanted me to be Mr. Mom. My FIL recognizes this, as does my family, they all heard her say it. When we got cash strapped, I offered to go get a job in PA, where jobs are more available than in my small town. She flat out told me not too. Now this guy loves her because he "supports" her, even from jail? I think she desired this A for a lot longer than she has let on. If I got a job, that would have been one less excuse for her to have an A.

I just wanted to give an update and vent a little, WW is trying to chat on Yahoo, I got to go...

Ok, done chatting with WW for now...

She is having trouble with a couple teeth, and they need pulled apparently. She is in immesne pain she claims. I conveyed that I felt bad for her, and that I want her to get well. She was taking ibuprofin, tylenol, AND naproxin at the same time to subside the pain, which let to stomach bleeding. I told her I was worried for her. I wanted SO BAD to talk about the garbage fake love that OM is claiming to have for her, and go into a lecture about how I am the one that loves her, not that dirtbag. I restrained myself though. I don't know if I should talk to her about it at all this weekend or not...my instinct scream YES!!! But from everything I have read, its NO!!!

I want to get some the books that have been recommended to me, but I am so cash strapped right now, and my local library is lacking. I need to contact my friend about starting up a computer based business. It will help keep my mond off of the whole situation, and hopefully make me some money.

I am at such a disadvantage. The OM is giving her money from jail, in effect "supporting" her. She has placed me in a situation where I can't, and shouldn't, because I have the kids and she is having an A! (at least its an EA, unless they are sneaking off during thier lunch break for a PA!). This is driving me nuts. I get so down, then I feel alright, then I find out about this. She is so blind right now...and she has the support of her family who are having A's!

I may have to plan B early...I've been trying to meditate on other things, but I still dream about her everynight. I lose sleep because of it. Plan A is supposed to negotiate an end to the A, but:

A)I keep reading, no M, OM, or R talk

B)Plan A should last 3-6 months, but I can barely see or talk to her so that she can see my positive changes, or meet EN's

C)She has no negative history with OM, and I didn't handle her first A very well (didn't know about MB, followed natural instincts)

D)He gets to see her at work 5-6 days a week, they get to talk everyday, and form more emotional bonds, where as I get to sit here in pain

So I don't know what to do at this point. I don't if the M is worth salvaging, but I miss her so bad! If it is ill-advised to try and rationalize any of these points, to try to convince her that thier "love" is fake and mine is real (or I wouldn't have married her!), what can I do? If it comes down to a Plan B letter, do I address these in the letter? I want to ask her why, but I know I'll get fog babble from her...

I know she feels something in there...I cried a lot before and after she moved us out, and she cried a few times before actually moving us out. SHe cried when I gave her a poem two weeks before getting moved out...

What do I do? Today is not a good day for me...I'm all lost and confused again...